Thanks MM and thanks LH as well. It's a touchy subject, feelings run high, but you've both been gracious and have listened to me without denigrating my perspective, for which I'm grateful.

I do try to understand your culture and I'm pleased to have had the opportunity to say something about my culture.

Who was the only country in the world to be able to feed and water the hungry tsunami victims in Thailand? America by means of the US Navy. I didn't ask who was the only one to help. I asked who was the only ABLE to help. That my friend costs lots of $$$. Money that I too am growing old of paying for only to be blamed for the worlds problems.

Yeah, we're the great satin of the world.

Thanks. And one of the trips I have always wanted to (and will) make is to New Zealand! It is on the plan for my wife and I to go to. Of course, it will be a few years before we can, since we have the new addition coming in September!

Me too, Maybe!

I tire of losing my buddies for people that later on will not appreciate what you have done...and will actively curse you. I tire of dumping tons of my hard earned money that I could use on my own kids, to help people that will turn and stab us in the back.

If we are the great satan to the world, then so be it! I say let them try to get along without us for awhile. Let's just sit back, do nothing, grab some popcorn and watch the show for about twenty years!

Maybe then, some of these people will wake up and realize they are denigrating their friends...ones that would spend their treasure and blood of their children for them.

The last thirty years, we have taken up arms and lost many great Americans to defend Muslims. In Kuwait. In Bosnia. In Kosovo. In Iraq. In Afghanistan. We have taken over NONE of those countries. We have almost entirely pulled out of Bosnia. We will soon in Kosovo.

We have wasted billions of dollars and thousands of American lives to defend people that want to destroy us. Or at the very least, dont want to help in their own defense. Who want to take our flag and burn it and stomp on it. Who call us the great satan!

The American people are growing tired of the world.

MM, I agree. I think the USA ought to withdraw from the world, and the United Nations.

We should seal our borders and let them all do whatever they want.

But we also need to be able to wipe all and any enemies off the planet when we need to.

The USA is very under appreciated. And always has been. I say to the rest of the world, solve your own problems. Deal with Korea and Iran and Kosovo and whoever by yourselves.

I don't care any about any of these places any more.

I really don't.

We don't need any other countries, and they don't need us.

We should Plan B the rest of the planet. The sooner the better.

Seriously.

Never mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We don't. We won't.

Huh?

I've always wanted 2 see New Zealand.

The southern hemisphere has the coolest night sky. Magellanic Clouds, Crux, Rigil Kentaurus (Alpha Centauri), and Mars is at perihelion in the southern sky, so oppositions that coincide with Mars' perihelion are the closest.

-ol' 2long

Sorry, MEDC, a political action committee's website doesn't constitute evidence of anything except there is freedom of speech in this nation.

Again, here is information from the Department of Justice.

Quote:

Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense. (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992) -

The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000).

The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000). Using the most recent FBI data (1992), homicide trends in the 17 states with less restrictive CCW laws compare favorably against national trends, and almost all CCW permittees are law-abiding.

Since adopting CCW (1987), Florida's homicide rate has fallen 21% while the U.S. rate has risen 12%. From start-up 10/1/87 2/28/94 (over 6 yrs.) Florida issued 204,108 permits; only 17 (0.008%) were revoked because permittees later committed crimes (not necessarily violent) in which guns were present (not necessarily used).

Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm. Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

By contrast, there are about 579,000 violent crimes committed annually with firearms of all types. Seventy percent of violent crimes are committed by 7% of criminals, including repeat offenders, many of whom the courts place on probation after conviction, and felons that are paroled before serving their full time behind bars.

Two-thirds of self-protective firearms uses are with handguns.

99.9% of self-defense firearms uses do not result in fatal shootings of criminals, an important factor ignored in certain "studies" that are used to claim that guns are more often misused than used for self-protection. Of incarcerated felons surveyed by the Department of Justice, 34% have been driven away, wounded, or captured by armed citizens; 40% have decided against committing crimes for fear their would-be victims were armed.

Unquote

(Emphasis added)

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=second

LH... 15 year old stats?

and BTW, this sites stats come from much more recent numbers from the FBI (some as recent as 2004).

Sorry again, but the information presented there is not raw data. Find the information at the DOJ and review it. What appears at that PAC has been "interpreted" in order to present a scewed picture of the truth. Additionally, the information on the Second Amendment is so much bovine scatology. It's premise is based on the word "militia" and assumes it means the same thing in 1777 that it does today. It doesn't.

If I were you, I'd avoid politically activist websites. They never give you decent information.

If you're truly interested in learning, re-read MM's posts today which indicate the founding father's intentions and motives. If you have the time, go through the whole of the collected documents that are collectively called "The Federalist Papers." You'll be amazed.

I have asked Justuss to lock this thread.

I started this thread because I was shocked, horrified and upset by the loss of so many young and not so young lives and I just wanted to talk to people about it. I guess part of it is working in a similar sized university myself. Universities, even largish ones, are tight knit communities, almost like little cities. They have their own jargon and in-jokes and abbreviations. Students in a lecture hall are sitting ducks. It just makes me so upset.

I know I've added to the political to-ing and fro-ing but the original purpose of MY thread was to register my horror at the events at VA Tech and it just makes me so sad that now we're sniping at each other.

Okay, Kiwi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LH... I am not here to debate with you... you obviously have your misinformation firmly engrained in your mind... it is not for me to dispute it. Bovine scatology..... isn't that what the NRA nuts have based their entire existance on???
I will provide information as I see fit for people that wish to become more aware of the facts of these issues. You can continue to cite your interpretations of the slave owning founding fathers (and some of them would be committed to an institution if they were alive today... Ben Franklin, genius yes..nut job... yep!) that couldn't forsee the type of fire power that would be available today.

MEDC, I think you may have missed my previous post on the page before this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i did....
saw it after i typed.

Ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So, resorting to invective and insults again when you can't support your claims, eh, MEDC? Typical.

So, Kiwi, what shall we discuss? Global "warming?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />