Thank you for posting that 180. I understand it and all that applies to me, and for the most part, that's what I have been doing.

The day he called to tell me about GF leaving, I was out "having a life" (something he'd said previously that he had and I didn't... that changed fast!).

I don't call "just because" - but I do throw in personal notes like "thoughts and prayers" such as I did when her departure was imimnent.

I won't beg or plead - been there, done that, I can tell you it does NOT work - in fact it has the opposite effect.

I'm carrying on with my daily life, not arranging "accidental" meetings or anything like that.

In fact, he emailed me a little while ago in response to a question I had about son's b'day events tonight and a customer issue, and he mentioned that we'll talk more about it (the client issue) "when" he stops by the shop tonight. That's a good thing - it's business, but before GF left he ONLY came in on weekends or ONLY if he absolutely had to do something that couldn't wait.

He's been here every night this week - not for very long, but he has stopped in to check on things and putter with a few extras. That could be just business, but it could also be that he doesn't want to go home to an empty apartment.

It *could* be that he wants to spend a bit of time with me but I'm not making that assumption just yet. I just happen to be here working and he knows I'll be here when he stops in. Still it's something to build on.

JinGA

Quit playing it safe and talk about the exgf. Let him vent to you about her. You may be surprised by what he says.

Ask probing questions.

Flirting isn't hard. Long looks and smiles and a little (key word is little) cleavage can send signals. So can standing a little closer than normal or some playful rough housing (very playful, very soft). A little touch on the arm, for example.

Inside jokes you had while married would work as well.

My ex and I recently shared a joke that was just between us when married. I read too much into it, but it was the first time we had laughed together in a long time.

Your call on how to flirt, but it isn't as hard as you think and it would certainly send the signals without being too obvious.

You have to break the ice a little bit somehow and you're not going to do it by maintaining the status quo that has existed since your D

OK NOW I'm getting something I can sink my teeth into...


He's mentioned the XGF - like the MP3 player that I got for DS is similar to the one he bought her <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He doesn't say it with disgust either... just matter-of-factly.

HOWEVER... on the flipside, he asked me how XBF was doing (he was ill when he left - long story) I did stay in touch with him for a while after he left, as a supportive friend, but that's done... and when XH asked if I'd heard from him lately I said no - he's off the radar - and that *I* had ignored his last communication with me (which is true). Could he be asking for any other reason than just simple curiosity?


Should I just ask if they are still in touch? I'm sure I know the answer to that one.. but that would open the door to questions he might not be comfy answering and the last thing I want to do is push him to clam up. He wasn't the most open person in the world during the M, but since the bomb was dropped he's said a few things that were astonishing - like admitting that "what goes around comes around" in that he was emotional and she was cold and closed off - I was always the emotional wreck and he was always cold and unfeeling (at least outwardly). That surprised me when he said it.

When my friend asked about being relieved her kids were gone (she was much more bold than I was!) He said yes, but not necessarily their messes or antics. He's a good dad to his own kids so it didn't surprise me that he had an emotional attachment to her children - however the subject of the GF herself wasn't touched by any party in that conversation.


That I can do. I'm probably already doing it without being aware of it. Cleavage, eh? Might have to go shopping. At work (where I see him 95% of the time) I wear a work-issue shirt... not very flattering. Might have to go home and see if there's anything in the closet... I'm pretty modest. Well I can spruce up a bit tonight, after all I have a "date" with my DS for his b'day... a tiny bit of makeup and maybe a teeny spritz of the perfume he bought me...hrmmmm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Nothing wrong with looking good, is there?

On the flipside... last weekend when he came in, he was wearing the cologne I used to buy for him. I'm sure he's worn it all along since we parted, but I NOTICED it on Saturday. The joke from the person I used to buy it from was the unofficial name of it was "Sex in a Bottle". I never noticed much before if he wore it as a matter of habit in recent times - but it was deliciously noticable on Saturday. I nearly said something about it but didn't. Should I?


We've always done this. Silly stuff but we never really stopped with that. Stupid things that people outside our family just wouldn't get. Nothing suggestive really - just silly phrases we picked up or developed over the years.


It feels good doesn't it? When I put my foot in my mouth a couple of weeks ago - we both laughed long and hard. We hadn't laughed like that together in forever. I've told a couple of other people who come in, what I'd said, and we all laugh some more. It was an embarrassing comment when twisted - implied something I haven't "had" in a long time... (which is why I said that the twisted meaning could have applied too! *flirt*)... but it was funny as all get-out. Oh well at least I can still laugh at myself, right?


That gives me something to ponder.. let him know the door is open without standing there with an "ENTER" sign... then he can either ignore the signals or take cues from them. I like it. I just hope I don't wind up trying too hard. Not going to try to think of it too much and just let it flow.


This is true, and I know it - I'm just feeling really awkward about it. The worst that can happen is that he rejects me - I guess that's scary enough, but still, I have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain at this point.

Besides, I'm a good "catch"!

JinGA

Alrighty then. I'm back from b'day evening for DS.

XH came by our business about half an hour before closing time. We'd agreed to begin our evening an hour after closing. So he attended to a few things - he'd got a cake for DS on the way... and while he didn't have to come to our biz beforehand he did.

At closing I went home, showered, changed, fixed hair, makeup and a splash of perfume, and a nice summer blouse - nothing overdone, appropriate for the evening's activities.

Kids and I went back to the biz to meet with XH, who promptly told DS that his (X?)GF wished him a happy b'day.

We went to the restaurant of my son's choice, conversation was very easy, we were all relaxed and joking old familiar jokes, all going VERY well, when his phone rings- it's (X?)GF - had to listen to the "I love yous" and everything.

So while she dumped her kids on him for 6 weeks while she went away, came home, dropped the bomb she was moving back to her home state - they are still "actively" involved complete with "Hi baby" and "I love you"... nearly put me off my dinner... but I didn't even blink, and from the restaurant we went to the bowling alley, where she called him again. Thankfully over the noise of music, falling pins and High-5s all around, I didn't hear that conversation. We bowled for an hour, not quite two games, and we had FUN - real FUN. We laughed, we danced after a good bowl, we put "whammies" on each other... DS rubbed XH's belly for good luck, I shook my booty for good luck, I'd bow on a strike, I'd high-5. It wasn't over the top - it was good old fashioned fun, being had by a good old fashioned family. Very easy, nothing forced. XH and I high 5'd each other a few times, especially after joking on our kids - something we've done for years, but haven't had an opportunity to do for a long time.

Then we went back to our business to have cake and open his present. While DS is opening his present, XH is reading a text message. CRIPEY - can this woman not leave him alone for 3 hours while he celebrates his son's birthday? DD finally asked him to put the phone down to pose for a picture with XH, DD and DS.

I didn't let it bother me (outwardly)...but even the kids were annoyed by it - they said so to me later.

We just got home a short while ago. We ALL had a great time, and my son had a great birthday. There was even a local DJ at the bowling alley (cosmic bowling) and I gave him DS name and age so of course he embarrassed him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So I'm "up" because we had a great time. I felt confident, relaxed, myself, and I was proud to have my whole family around me. I could tell XH had a great time too - and it wasn't like he was enjoying the kids, but "tolerating" me - no, we laughed and spoke of old things we used to laugh about, it was all just very normal.

The only thing that bugged me was the phone calls/texts. Well I guess now I know that he's still "in love with his baby".

I betcha he hasn't had that much fun in a long time. Hey - we're fun to be around, my kids and me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's OK... I'm here - she's there. I'm his family, no matter what a piece of paper says. WE are his family, and he had a great time with us.

That will sit well with him for the next little while. Let him stew with that, while he's texting or IMing. A phone call or text message isn't half as much fun as being there.

Let him think about the fun he had for a while, and see if he comes looking for more.

Meanwhile, I'm going to keep on doing my thing. Keep doing what I'm doing, with or without him. He already knows I've picked up a new hobby that I do with the kids sometimes, and sometimes on my own - Geocaching, and we have great fun with that too. When he's tired of waiting for the next text message, he might be interested in having some more fun,right?

Any tips for what I should be doing now since I know for sure GF is still in the long-distance picture?

JinGA

We worked together today. Uneventful day - neither of us talked about last night except that we were both tired LOL!

His phone was quiet today too... he was out taking care of a client for most of the morning. DS tried to call him but no answer.

When he got back to the biz, he left his phone on the counter. The display said "3 missed calls: HOME"... DS tried to call him 3 times.

His cell phone still says "HOME" for our number. Funny he never changed it. He got that particular phone after he moved out. He doesn't have a land line for his own "home" ... but interesting that he didn't re-label the home phone to "kids" or whatever.

Still not sure what I should be doing now that I know that GF is still in the picture. I imagine it will fizz eventually.

Thoughts/suggestions welcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Hi JinGA,

If you're looking for a survey of inputs, if it were me, I'd think hard about what I wanted to say, how deep to present it as (love, or a 'what if' interest), and then maybe say what you feel in a manner you think he'd respond best to. Start out slow and if you see he's interested (or not), adjust accordingly. I don't think you have anything to lose in telling someone you care about them. You've known him long enough to understand how he'll react in most instances.

Don't fool yourself though, let him prove himself to you over time. Deep down, he probably knows you love him, let him prove himself to you that he loves you too after you tell him how you feel. If he really loves you, taking time to get back with you, won't bother him, because he'd be interested in being around you more often and would welcome the opportunity to be back with you more and more each day.

I don't have any statistics about how many people get back together after a D, but I'm hopeful that you can be happy in at least telling him how you feel, and your seeing how he feels so you can get answers concerning it.

God bless,

CS

That is why, when I think the time is right, I'll put it in a letter. I'm pretty good at expressing myself, but if I can organize my thoughts... condense them without going on and on (I do tend to ramble), put them in writing, put the letter under his door - then he can read it on his own, and decide, what, if anything, to do about it.

There are lots of subtle things that have been sending me messages all along that he wants to come home someday - that will be the cue for him to either work towards making that a reality, or burst the bubble once and for all.

I guess it's not as complicated as I'm making it. Either he still has those feelings, or he doesn't. If he does, actions will dictate whether he's willing to earn it back or not.

I know I have work to do to earn that too - and I'm doing it.

I just don't understand what the "show" was about the other night. The (X?)GF knows we work together on weekends - but I guess the idea that he was actually out socially with us as a family was a real threat to her. However, she LEFT him. She moved out, she moved 2000 miles away - so why should she care unless she's just being deliberately cruel to him?

Why would he still be involved with her unless he's desperate and maybe trying to save face?

I don't get that part.

However, I'm quite certain that it will burn out eventually. It has to. It has pretty much run its course. A relationship where one person moves away is not one with a future.

Time - time is needed to let that bit go away on its own. Then will be the time to put my cards on the table.

Still, it's weird to go through.

JinGA

Well today was another day. Last night I went over to a friend's who's home from surgery - visited with her for a while. Went back this morning before work to help her with some laundry.

I was at work a bit early but not as early as usual - XH was already there. It's nice now that GF is gone he's usually on time or early - before when she was here, and even before she moved here, he was always late. He's been late a bit, but more than made up for in "early".

He was rather quiet today. At one point I asked him if he was OK - he said he was fine, so I let it go. I think GF called him once or twice... I did see him on the phone once and it rang a couple of times.

Our kids went to his place last night, they'll be home in an hour.

DD has a band concert tomorrow night. Before he left, I asked XH what "the plan" was for tomorrow night. He'll take his own car there. OK - he wants to spend extra on gas, that's his business. DD has to be there early so I'll likely arrive a good bit before he does.

I guess all I can keep doing for now is sit tight and keep doing my modified Plan A and 180 - which is pretty much what I've been doing all along.

Today he seemed a bit distant. When he's receptive to good conversation and whatnot -I jump in, but if he's not, I just let him be.

I'm not asking about the GF - in fact I *THINK* my best bet right now is to just keep quiet about her, but keep my eyes and ears open to figure out what's going on with that. I think if I get too inquisitive it may just put him in defensive mode - and I don't want to do that.

Still welcome to suggestions - while I wait.

JinGA

Well last night was DD's band concert. We arrived separately but about the same time so we went in and sat together, DS between us, and my female friend and her father who is visiting, sat beside us too.

XH was clutching his cell phone like a remote and the texts were going back and forth AGAIN. DS was irritated by this and rolled his eyes. I said nothing.

XH left after DD's group performed - there was another group but he didn't stick around, he told the kids he had to be up early in the morning (it was 8:00 PM).

When I got home at 10:00 I could "see" him on Google Talk at 10...I don't chat with him on Google - he used that tool to talk me through a computer problem once, and he's still on my list - I assume I'm still on his, but we don't use chat programs to communicate - usually email or phone.

So I'm not sure just what's going on with him - I know it's nobody new, but I don't know what he thinks he's trying to prove except that "he wasn't dumped". Whatever. I'm not going to LB by prying or making comments. I'm just carrying on trying to subtly appear attractive, I keep being kind and helpful, and we'll let that work its magic if there's any magic left to be had.

JinGA

JinGa,

I think it's time to let it go for a little while.

There are ways to talk to him about what's happening with the girlfriend that would show concern without being overbearing.

A simple, "You know, exH, we may not be together anymore but I still care about you and how you're doing. You're welcome to talk to me about what's happening and how you're feeling if you'd like. How are things with the ex?"

That shows concern and care without being overbearing and it lets him know you're there for him.

I would also tell him something about the text messages during the kids activities. It isn't out of line to say, "Hey, the kids have told me it bugs them that you text during their events so much. I'm just letting you know what they're feeling."

That way it lets him know, but it's not you telling him what to do.

If none of these things work, then let it go for a while. You're letting this consume you too much. It really is out of your control.

He'll likely come around to you, but probably not for a little while. It won't move at the pace you'd like it to.

BD, you're very perceptive - and I really appreciate your insight.

You're right - and I am letting it go for a while. I am reading a lot of posts here to learn more, no matter what the outcome of my situation, there's plenty of insight to be gained here from others' situations, so I'm just trying to do a bit of self-improvement. That's for *me*, as well it should be.

I have let XH know that I'm here for him. I'm not going to "rub it in" - but he knows I'm here. I think all the obvious texting and phone calls is insecurity - likely on both their parts, to "show" me that they are still an item. If I referred to her as "ex" he'd be sure to correct me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That's fine - if he's satisfied with that as a relationship, let him have it. Logically it will burn out eventually. I think she's hanging on as long as there's something in it for her (such as him paying for her phone or whatever...). Clearly there's something in it for him too - emotional attachment.

There are no more family events planned - it was just sort of a coinkidink that DS b'day and DD concert occurred so soon after GF's departure. So that issue may not come up again for a while. I'm going to let it ride. Last thing I want to do is start a peeing match because if I do say something he'll get defensive. Better to just leave it be, since it won't be an ongoing issue at this point.

Yes, it really is out of my control, and I'm well aware of it. I'm not trying to control or manipulate the situation - that would be most unhealthy.

I think he will come around eventually - and you're right, it most likely won't be for a while. He's still got a lot of processing to do. IMO he's still in denial about GF moving away. That will likely last a while, then the anger and depression will set in. He needs to go through all the grief stages, and I understand that.

I'm actually glad it's not moving fast. It's not a race. IF he is going to come around at some point, I'd rather it be once he's processed all the old junk out, and has his emotional stuff together.

In many ways he's still very much in a "fog" right now. Time will tell if/when the fog lifts, what will happen.

Like I've said before - my feelings are what they are, and they really haven't changed since I initiated the D, I've swallowed them down, distracted from them, denied them to myself - but they are still there, and still the same. That much I have to accept and live with.

However what I do have control over is what I do with those feelings - I can choose to act on them, or not act on them. The rest is not up to me.

I'm going to keep on working on myself in the meanwhile. That's the best thing to do, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Well all's quiet on the western front for now. Just keeping on keeping on.

Last night I got a couple of hours off. I work *all* the time in our business, and XH used to come in Tues-Wed-Thurs evenings and weekends. Last summer he quit (pressure from GF - his own admission) but at the time he told me some babble about no longer being comfortable in the business...

Anyway, back in January circumstances necessitated his return to the business. Initially he was only coming in on weekends. Since GF is gone, he stops off most T-W-T and doesn't stay long but he does come in to check on whatever he's been working on etc.

In March I had a minor meltdown (stressed/burned out) and we had an argument because I needed some time off to recharge my batteries - the argument escalated to include some other stuff - old junk he was hanging on to, and whatnot. He took a couple of shots below the belt, and I took one - then caught myself and stopped. I had initiated the dispute, and I was the one to apologize and ask for a truce.

At that time XH had said the ONLY reason why he was coming in was because we are preparing to sell the business. Before he returned in January, DD said she felt that he missed working there. That business had been our dream together, and he had wanted to stay involved after the separation and divorce - but that changed a few months after his GF moved in.

Anyway - I was happy for the help no matter how little time he could put in. After that argument he suggested we alternate weekends so I could have some time off. I thanked him and agreed - however it hasn't happened yet. Customer issues etc - he has to go to see a client, I have to stay and hold down the fort.

Last week when he was on one of his "driveby" visits to the shop, I asked him before he left, if I could get a night off the following week and he said, "sure".

Well the early part of the week kept him busy with customer stuff. Last night he had nothing on the slate so he'd mentioned that I could have the night off.

We close at 8, he arrives about 5. When he arrived I didn't "assume" it was so I could go home and I was in the middle of some work, and there were a couple of things to be done that neither of us could do by ourselves - so when I was nearly done my stuff, he asked me if I was going home. I said yes and just had to finish up, which I did.

He went to work in the other room. I gathered up my stuff, walked to the back, and told him, "Thank you. I really appreciate you doing this for me so I can have a night off."

He said, "No problem." And I went. I was only off 2 hours early (on a 60-70 work week) but I was very grateful and the kids were surprised and happy to see me home early.

I've always been a "Please and thank you" kind of person - but one thing he always seemed to complain about was that I didn't appreciate things he did. I really did appreciate, and I always made a big deal about thanking him - even now when he does come in I say, "Thank you" before he goes - but I made it a point to say thanks for the "extra".

Sometimes I think he never heard me thanking him in the past. I wasn't over the top, but I was certain to make sure he knew I really appreciated it.

I don't expect to see him tonight - the shop closes at 6. He passes by at 4:45-5-ish on his way home from his regular job. He'll be in on the weekend.

So that's where I'm at - just doing the same stuff, playing the waiting game for now til I'm sure GF is out of the picture for good, and trying to build up some love bank credits. Then we'll see what happens from there.

DS asked him the other day if he plans to move back to a smaller apartment. Last year he had a 1 bdrm but moved to a 2 bdrm in the same building (less than a mile from here, and our business is halfway in between) when GF and her DD moved last February. In June her DS joined them. Now that he's alone again, IMO it would make sense to move to a smaller apartment again (I think he moved in April so he's probably month-to-month now unless he signed a new lease), but he said he was going to stay where he is. At least now my kids can leave a few odds and ends at his place for when they visit.

So that's it for now - I'm trying not to torture myself with "what if's"... just resolving to keep moving myself forward, with a bit of hope that maybe at some point he'll want to join me.

JinGA

Here's an update.

Friday he didn't stop by our business. I didn't expect him to, but it would have been nice if he had. That night I took my kids out to the restaurant we all used to go to - where I trade our business' services for food credit. Found out there was going to be live music there Saturday (last night), in the style that XH and and the kids like. Planned to come back again last night too.

Yesterday morning I had to run a long errand for the business before it opened. A friend of mine came with me - and because of her I ran a bit late. I didn't call to say I'd be late (it was less than 15 minutes late) I figured I'd be there before he became concerned.

It's not uncommon for XH to be late to work in our business - although for the most part since GF announced she was moving away, he's been a bit early or on time (except for a couple of weeks ago when he was 1 1/2 hours late... overslept).

8 minutes after opening time he was phoning me, making sure I was coming in! I confirmed I was on my way back having completed the errand.

I joked with him - his being late is par for the course, but my being late is cause for concern <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He was in and out most of the day with client issues - left my truck on gas fumes. The business pays for gas but it would have been nice to be told I was on fumes when he returned the vehicle...

Anyway, toward the end of the day I mentioned the live music at the restaurant and asked if he would like to join us. He said, "No, I'm good."

OK - if he wants to go home alone, that's his business. I didn't ask again or push. The invitation was made, and declined. I didn't think he'd accept, but it was worth a try.

It's too bad - he'd have loved the music. The kids and I went and had a great time, listened to the music for about 3 hours before we came home. Apparently this musician will be back again in a couple of weeks, but I have plans to go to a pig roast out of state (alone) which I've known about for a while and have already arranged with XH to cover for me.

So I'm not making any progress with him - but I'm not sitting at home either.

I'm a bit discouraged that he didn't want to go with us, but at the same time it's likely too soon for him to be "socializing" anyway since he seems to still be in touch with GF who moved 2000 miles away.

I don't get that - is he expected to live like a hermit? Oh well - that's up to him. Wonder how long it will be before he realizes that HIS life is passing him by while he sits and pines for her?

That's OK - let him get on with it. We had fun, the kids and me, so that's all that matters at this point.

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions welcome - still not getting a lot of feedback here.

JinGA

Why do you keep engaging social convo with a WS? Doesn't it hurt you to have him treat your generous soul like crap?

L.

Ummm because I think it's better than being a b****.

He wasn't rude about declining my invite. He just declined it.

When we're at work together, it's very easy. Conversation flows, we get along well. It's not that big a stretch to ask him to go somewhere with us - pre-GF moving here we used to do it every week, even though we were both moving on. We used to socialize as a family.

Once it was clear (so we both thought) that we were moving on, I thought it best to cut that tie - besides GF was insecure enough about my presence - she made that perfectly clear.

She's gone, still keeping him on the hook (and he's allowing it). He's got nothing to go home to, I thought I'd make the offer. I had no expectation, in fact I wasn't surprised he declined. Last time he declined he asked me to pick him up some take out (which I did) but I had already decided this time that if he asked for that again, *I* would respectfully decline. He didn't ask.

Are you telling me I should just forget it?

JinGA

He doesn't seem t/b respecting you for it. After all, you are all his family. Spending time with his family s/b a priority.

What I think is that he needs to miss his family and your invites are in a weird WS way meeting a need that the WS loves to turn into hurt on the BS and family.

I know it sounds crazy but many a WS react better when the BS moves forward and drops hints to make the WS wonder what the BS is up to. It's a concept hard for many a BS to understand but when your mind and heart get in sync, it works. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ex:

Within earshot of a WS, the BS is on the phone:

BS (on the phone): Yes, the kids and I are looking forward to going Friday night. We know we will have lots of fun. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..... yada, yada, yada...... bye.

WS: Hey who were you talking to?

BS: ... oh... a friend.

WS: Which one?

BS: .... the one with the red hair.... (be vague).

WS: No I mean who?

BS: Oh.... don't worry, it's not someone you know.

WS: A guy?

BS: Ha... a guy? That's a good one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Gotta go finish this stuff so I can leave on time.

WS: Uh.... yea, ... oook. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

*********************

Next work day:

WS: So, how was Friday night? Did you all have fun?

BS: Yes.

WS: Yes??

BS: Yes we did.

WS: Where did you all go?

BS: (insert - only where you went)

At this point the WS may want more details. Be cautious how you dole out those details.

The key here is to get him wondering. The longer he has time to wonder the less time he has being a WS and yea.... it will frustrate him because how dare his family go have fun and he NOT know the details. The WS in him is a control freak.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Firstly, Orchid - I've read a lot of your posts, and I respect greatly, what you have to say. I first saw your reverse babble treatise a few years ago and I was in awe.

I do appreciate you taking the time to speak with me here, and you *are* thought provoking.



Sometimes it seems like he does, sometimes he doesn't. Last week we had DS b'day and we had a *blast*. I think he's probably at a bit of a crossroads of his own - doesn't feel single enough to spend time with us, but the GF moved away. I'm not making excuses for him - just trying to imagine how I might feel in his shoes (although he and I don't think exactly alike, I do know him probably better than anyone).


Interesting. I do agree that he needs to miss us, and the need may be most keen now that his "other" family left. Perhaps the novelty of solitude hasn't quite worn off yet, and maybe I'm moving too fast, and in the wrong direction. I thought DS b'day was a good "teaser" though - to show him just what he IS missing - let him ponder that for a while.

Perhaps I shouldn't have invited him after all - and perhaps it was a good thing he didn't go.

I AM doing things for myself and my kids- once upon a time I may have pouted and stayed home - but not anymore. I'm going to do fun things on my own and with my kids, with or without him.


I'm glad you brought that up - because I was thinking of telling him about the fun we had, about the musicians etc. Are you saying I shouldn't? OR, should I talk about it with others, but not him?

Example - many of our regular clients are "friendly" - we chat about this and that... would it be better to let him overhear bits and pieces of my evening's recap being talked about with an acquaintance/client, than by telling him?

I know DS kept telling me that Daddy didn't know what he was missing... and he's right. (Insofar as the music).

I have not discussed any of the issues I'm talking about here, with my kids - they don't need to be set up for more hurt.


Not playing the "what if game" but if he doesn't fish for details, should I read that as he doesn't really give a crap? I understand how this technique is supposed to work but if he doesn't become more inquisitive, is that usually a sign that he just doesn't care to know?


Well maybe there's the rub. I've pretty much always been an open book. In the M I always believed in transparency - saves a lot of mistrust and grief. Perhas I need to quit that, at least for now.

I'll say nothing to him about our night last night. Watch he's probably forgotten I even asked him or told him what we were doing... but if somebody comes in and we talk about it...

In fact, one of our clients and his family were there last night, they sat at the next table. He said he might come in...I'm sure we could have a few laughs and compare notes about the music etc.

Whatcha think?

JinGA

I think you should play it a bit non-chalant.

Your DS has it right that dad should know what he was missing. Maybe they s/b telling him instead of you.

I know this is gonna hurt but the WS needs to hurt. What is sad is that even when the WS hurts the BS hurts. Shouldn't be , but often unavoidable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, you should pull back a bit on the info release. I can see you have been an 'open book' as you described yourself. Not a bad thing, except in this case.

I was very open with my H as well. I made it easy for him NOT to ask because I usually kept him well informed. That backfired on me big time when the A was in full blast because that is exactly what the WS wants.... to know where or what the BS is up to at all times.

The reason though is not good. The WS' reason is so they (WS & OP) can use it to plan their A.

So when the reason changes and BS finds out, then the BS needs to adjust their style so as NOT to enable the A.

JMHO,
L.

Gotcha.

Just one note - we *are* divorced. While the applicable psychology still applies, legally I don't have an M to fight for. Wish I did - but I can't change the facts.

I too, thought that DS and/or DD could tell him what he's missing - BUT I don't want to put them in the middle. In fact I've gone to great pains to avoid my kids being the monkeys in the middle - I've been there myself and it sucks.

I don't want to try a "parent trap" sort of thing either - again, unfair to the kids.

If there is any hope for reconciliation, it has to be between him and me. Of course if it came about and was healthy and real, we'd all benefit, including the kids - but that's not my primary motivation. I don't want to do this for the wrong reasons, and I don't want my kids to be hurt any more than they have already been.

DS already asked me if now that GF is gone, does that mean that daddy may come home - I didn't say yes, I didn't say no - I just told him not to think in those terms because I didn't want him to get his hopes up. It's hard.

You're also right in that when WS hurts, BS hurts. When he told me his GF was leaving, I wasn't at all surprised, but I was devastated because I knew he was devastated. Sympathy pain. I saw it coming for a long time- but I'd never have kicked him when he was down and I'd never offer an "I told you so". I was as compassionate as I could be (inside I was doing a happy dance - but not for his pain - for her departure).

I will do as you suggest. Not going to mention it at all.

We'll see what happens...

Like I said, while DS b'day was somewhat a coinkidink timing-wise, I thought it was kind of good that we spent it together - it was a legitimate reason to do something as a family without it seeming put-on or forced... but with no more "reasons" to do something afterward I had hoped it might start his wheels turning - about the fun we had, as he is home alone with himself and nobody else.

Sort of like a carrot on a stick...

May take a while for that effect to sink in - if it does at all.

Thanks for the insight - it's giving me a lot to ponder. I'll let you know what happens <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Yes, I know u r divorced but the principals can still apply if YOU want them to. If you have moved on to the sense that you don't want t/b reconcile, then while some of those principals still need to apply, the one's with reconciliation in mind wouldn't be necessary. The ball is in your court on this one.

The one sad thing I see over and over on MB is that the children are often neglected in the sense that they have opinions but are often suppressed from sharing them.

IMHO it is not about shielding the children. It s/b about allowing them a way to deal with the issue. Most children know about the divorce, separation & A. The one thing they need is parental support. Right now that's you. If they need to share or vent their feelings to you or their father, they s/b able to so freely.

I will share my example: My son was 6 when d/d occured. About 3 months after d/d, my son asked if he could right a letter to his dad because he had stuff to say but felt his father would not listen. His term was he felt 'ashamed'. My son also told me he was sad that he w/b the only child in school w/o a dad and that he needed to quit school. Isn't that sad?

He was only in the 1st grade when it happened. So I asked him how he wanted to share his feelings with his dad. He asked to write a letter. He did, on his own. A 4 sentence letter. 2 questions, 2 statements. Direct and hard. The WS got the letter. It didn't stop the A then but caused a ruckus in the A. The OW was quite jealous of our son and from there spewed out some hateful e-mails which lead to eventually ending the A.... 2 1/2 years later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So that's my story.

Hope it helps.

L.