OK, I'm confused. Throughout the hundreds of posts I've read about Plan B and numerous people's examples, it has been the penultimate act...in which you decisively make a break for the purpose of salvaging your dignity and pure feelings, and to force the WS to realize the stakes.

So if I ask her to leave now, and then issue the Plan B letter, AND she chooses not to leave, then what?


This makes sense to me. I am contemplating telling them today prior to her return tomorrow, and then emailing it to her in turn.

I truly believe in sharing everything with my children. I believe children can handle a lot more than what people think that they can. I also understand that Harley is a Pysch. and has a lot of experience. I am not discreting his works or saying that I am better by any means. I love his ideas and that is why I am here. Personally I am not in a predicament that my children would see the OW because my H's affair is over. I just don't want them to repeat his actions and I don't want to lie either. Telling them that Dad has made some bad choices, is not lying. He has made bad choices. I my be spinning the truth by not giving all the details, but i am not willing to give all the details nayway as I think they are too graphic.

See, CR, you cannot go into Plan B if she lives there. I think you must have misunderstood what you were reading. [or someone did it wrong] So if you give her the letter and she a) refuses to leave or b) agrees but takes 3 months to get out, then you have already shown your hand and it is no surprise to her when you GO DARK. You LOSE that leverage entirely.

Once you deliver the Plan B letter, you should not SEE HER OR SPEAK TO AGAIN until she meets the conditions of your letter. Plan B is not a FUTURE promise, but something you are doing NOW. When you deliver the letter, you have to be prepared to GO DARK NOW.

That is why you should not give the letter until YOU CAN go dark. You can't go into Plan B with her living there. See what I mean?

She has to move FIRST. If she will not move out, then you would want to contact an attorney and get a legal seperation agreement/or file divorce to get her out. You really should consult an attorney anyway to get visitation, finances all locked down so YOU ARE PROTECTED.

You would not believe the legal CRAP some WS', especially females, try to pull to punish BS' when they start defending themselves. I have seen men removed from their homes by the SHERIFF because the BS simply asked his wife not to carry on phone conversations with her OM in front of him and his DD. She filed a restraining order against him, had him removed and he had to a get a COURT ORDER to get back into his own home. This kind of crap is not uncommon around here, believe me. All she has to do to get you out is call the sheriff and tell him you are "scaring her."

Yikes- thanks for that insight, ML. Now I'm totally freaked out. I would never hurt my wife and I would think she'd never take that drastic step, but I suppose I need to protect myself that way too. It pains me that I even have to contemplate that.

Past few hours have been interesting in and of themselves...

The boys wanted to call the MIL/FIL and talk, so we did. Phone comes to me and MIL asks where WW is. I told her. Now, I thought that MIL *knew* what was going on, as WW has said she talked to her M about this. Turns out that MIL knew something was amiss but DID NOT know the details.I have subsequently talked to my FIL, and we exchanged some tears.

Now I have exposed the truth to both of them, and it's left me exhausted. yet in a strange way--not in a cruel mean way, but a genuinely real sense of freedom--I feel liberated. The light of truth will shine through.

WW already sent me a text msg after her M called her....things are about to explode I fear, but I'm prepared. I know what's going to happen, I know the imminent storm, the rage, the lashing out, I know all of that is due to come, and pray it doesn't get too nasty.

It is a difficult challenge of character to know what needs to be done knowing the consequence is unpleasant and still doing it. Please pray for us....

Good man. It is always the case that the WS spins the story to others, which is why it is so important for the story to come from you. You did good!



I would suggest that you get as much exposure done as possible TODAY. She is going to go crazy and you may as well get your moneys worth and create a tsunami for the affairees.

When she calls, you do understand that she will make all manner of threats and rant and rave, blah, blah, blah? We hear it every day here. Just understand it is all SMOKE designed to scare you into silence. It will blow over so don't let her scare you off your mission. [I said this too soon!! i don't think you will be too easy to scare!]


God BLESS you for saying this!! It truly takes character to push forth and do the right thing NO MATTER HOW HARD! This is what seperates the men from the boys and determines SUCCESS around here. It is the ones who STAND TALL in the storm, no matter how scary, who MAKE IT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:13

Whatever would she be mad about? She told you they already knew, remember? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

EXACTLY! This is what the BS must first face, then the FWS must face this same conundrum. BS's face this in the beginning, during the firestorm, when emotions are all over the place and you are hanging by a thread. Once this first wave of attacks is over, you will find peace.

Meanwhile, you lump all that is the WS's problem ONTO THEM. You sweep your hands clean on your jeans and walk away. When and if recovery begins, the WS must then do everything within their power to face the consequences, KNOWING that it will be unpleansant.

Your first exposure went very well. Please continue as quickly as possible. Don't wait.

I am glad to know that you have decided to tell your children the whole truth ( in a way that they can comprehend, of course). I have told my son that his father has made bad decisions that have hurt me and him. My son has asked me, "So, daddy did something bad to you and now he's gone because he hurt you?" My DS gets it, even without knowing fully what 'it' is.

You are doing very well. Melodylane ROCKS, in kicks and tube sox. Remember that waywards are nuts! They don't like consequences, not one iota. Keep coming here before you make any moves regarding communication (via email and TM). When she's face to face with you, you'll have to employ all you know.

Mel-

I can't begin to tell you how much your words mean to me. This has been the most bizarre day of my life, and yet one of the most wonderful--built a volcano with the boys, played Star Wars with them, and all with a wholesome spirit knowing the foreboding that is yet to come, as I plan on telling them tonight. {updated: I never got the chance to finish this post, as all ****** broke loose, as you'll read}

I have now talked to my M as well. We have the added challenge of the fact that she has terminal cancer and is moving here. She has also, of late, not been of fully sound mind and has been really struggling. It too has been a stressor on our marriage and such. But I just lot it with my Mom--cried and let it all out, as she too was a single mother who sacrificed for me. It was very therapeutic because I've not been the best adult son either as of late, another thing that I'm committed to improving.

Yet all that didn't matter. I shared in love with her what was going on, just as I did with my MIL/FIL and have gathered support from all of them. I can't get a hold of my Dad yet, but it has been a day of days. And my Mom was loving and caring (love the sinner, hate the sin kind of thing, worried about the boys, etc)

I knew the storm is coming and as I was typing this very post (interrupted over the span of several hours, so forgive the length here), it came.

I had tried to call OM's M, and reached his D. I was lead to believe I had the wrong number, but he asked my name, I kind of got suspicious. So the OM's Dad also lied (apple fall far from the tree?) just to get me off the phone evidently.

Well, WS called and the storm was unleashed. It was in fact OM's father I talked to briefly.

She wanted to know WHY?

To what end? (why exposure?)

She thinks I'm doing this to strike out at her. She still claims that irrespective of OM, we are finished. We talked for a long time, I broke down fully and completely, and she continued to look in the past...

I tried to explain to her WHY, knowing she wouldn't understand right now, which probably came off condescending, a weakness of mine admittedly (something I've tried also to correct).

...She noted that I failed to fulfill counseling as promised after my EA...

...How she was supposed to give, give...nothing left of herself to give...and that she was done...

...How I have no idea the ****** WS has been through when I challenged her about the pain I and the kids have been through, when they ask when Mommy will be home, why is Mommy in XXX, etc?

She thinks I'm blaming her for this entire thing.

It ended with 'it's going to end in court' and was rather acrimonious.

So that was one phone call, with some sarcasm, snide comments, cynicism, accusations, I imagine the usual stuff I am to expect through this process. And without sounding clinical or rehearsed, I knew what to expect and told her as much, which she didn't like either. It's a tough thing to know you're going to face the barrage, and as much as you prepare for it, you're never ready, I feel like I didn't say the right thing then or in the right way.

I don't know if the impact to the kids is fully understood by WW yet. She has been somewhat evasive, or non committal in talking about the repercussions. I hope--think--she knows the stakes. As someone who came from a DV home, I could relate to it and told her as much. And I told her that the boys would learn from my example not words and if I had any integrity, I couldn't and wouldn't carry on the lie any longer.

I ended that first call just wiped out.

And then she called again a little later.

She says she's suffered enough, yet neither of us communicated that pain to each other a year ago, even before December....it was never a mutual (and that's the focus I've tried to take--not her, not me, but WE) let's fix us.

And strangely enough, she also at the beginning of the first convo said that she talked with OM today about perhaps 'taking a break'....or that she wanted to stop their relationship because of wanting to try. This she said she had talked to him about BEFORE finding out about the exposure. I want to believe her, I truly do, but don't know what to believe and after a day like this, I only hope I have the strength to know the difference.

She questioned my spirituality as well. I told her that I prayed for peace for her own soul, since she is still angry, cannot forgive, and shut her heart out. She called me a hypocrite...we've never been church goers, I'm a recovering Catholic, but absolutely, I told her, that I have rekindled a sense of spirituality--faith--because I finally realized that I can't do it by myself. I couldn't fix my marriage, and only until I hit rock bottom did I realize that I needed strength and help in my journey, since I wasn't getting it from her, and I needed to maintain that strength for the sake of the kids, my job, my life, and trying to salvage my marriage and restore my sense of peace.

In the second call, which continued rahter angrily, she called back and called what I did an "intervention"..."how very 90s."

She asked how I would have felt had she called my boss upon finding out about my EA. She asked for me to promise not to call anyone else. What happened next is what really struck me in much of the phone exchange. I asked her why she would want me to stop...was she ashamed? No, she said. It was because she didn't want anyone else hurt, ie: OM's parents, his mom is old, in ill health, etc. I challenged her on that, as I found it odd that she would be concerned about some total stranger's feelings, yet so uncaring about how I felt, how the kids felt. She didn't have an answer for that really.

But after all was said and done tonight, I want to think we had a breakthrough.

She said we have a lot of talking to do when she gets back. I might be reading into a conciliatory tone, but I also told her that if that talking meant re-hashing everything we've already been through, if talking meant her continued persistence in throwing in the towel as she had months ago, etc, I wasn't interested. But I told her that if she was interested in genuinely talking about healing, about truly, deeply, on a reconnecting basis talk about meeting each other's needs, and doing so free from the affair, I would absolutely be committed to that and that I would put in every ounce of energy and every fiber of my being.

She didn't have much to say then and we said goodnight.

I don't know what to make of all of this, quite frankly. I am skeptical but want to believe. I am hopeful yet terrified. I am the combination of so many conflicting emotions right now, all simultaneously colliding, I don't know what to think. I've cried more today than I have since January when we had a late night talk and arguably more than I ever have.

I made it clear that OM has to go fully, completely, without condition. And I also made it clear, in as loving manner as I could muster, that I still love her. I want to feel her touch again, I want to see her smile again, and I want to be with her.

Now I'm just babbling...sorry for the length. Today has been a day of days like no other.

If you hjave anyone else on your exposure list, get it done. Don't promise to not do this.

Her reaction is totally typical.

I will tell you what I see here. I see someone who very desperately wants you to STOP interfering in her affair and will say whatever it takes to scare you into silence. Notice that she took several different tactics to acheive that goal, she tried guilt of several persuasions, bullying, self pity, cajoling and even "perhaps" taking a break from her affair. This is a CLASSIC reaction of a WS that is designed to shut you up at all costs.

Crossroads, do not be diverted by this act. Do not allow her to divert you from her path. There is nothing her but TALK, empty talk. Her reaction tells me that exposure is having a HUGE IMPACT on her affair. She knows that it will cause great harm to her affair, otherwise she wouldn't be so desperately trying to stop you.

Don't stop because she offered up a nothing like "perhaps, we will maybe take a break." That is alot of NOTHING TALK coming from a committed liar who is trying to protect her affair. Instead, stay with a strategy that is not dependent upon the untrustworthy WORD of a wayward spouse, but rather one that is dependent upon your own actions. In other words, stick with your PLAN. This affair is far from over. "Perhaps" is nothing more than meaningless weasel words designed to MANIPULATE you into silence.

Stay the course, CR. Finish your exposures tomorrow. If she is truly "perhaps" going to break things off, it won't matter anyway. But, she has no intentions of breaking anything off, I assure you. Her only intention is to SHUT YOU UP.

TALK IS CHEAP with a WS, you can only go by her ACTIONS. And not claims of actions, but verifiable actions.

STAY THE COURSE, MY FRIEND. Don't give up while you have the affair on the ropes. It is the BEST HOPE for your marriage and the BEST HOPE for your family.

Find his MOTHER, CR, they are VERY SCARED of that exposure!

Strange coincidence, isn't it? Well gee, I guess it only makes sense you should STOP exposing the affair, since she coincidentally ended it today, huh? that is just AMAZING timing!

Ooooo, Crossroads, keep going, keep exposing. Finish it today. DO NOT STOP.

I hear so many things that my WH said, it is truly amazing that the WS's even say the same things.

I would lie about ending my drug addiction too, if that meant that I could still do it, just more subversively...

OMG!

WW was planning on flying home, as part of her usual weekend trips to visit OM.

She called me this AM as I was on way to work and said that she did what I wanted her to.

I asked if that meant that she broke things off with the OM. She said yes. And that she hates me.

She was crying a bit on the phone even in the airport as she had just landed back here. She said I’ll never know the pain I’ve caused, I’ll never know what she’s feeling. I imagine that’s pretty typical, but it’s still genuine pain and I feel it myself and just want the hurt to stop.

Now I don't know how to proceed. I had hoped she would break it off, but I'm not ready for the backlash that's going to happen. Her withdrawal is something she desperately needs help with, and I can't give her that. WHAT DO I DO?

It might sound trite to point her to this site for support for the withdrawal of an affair, but what would be the most recommended way to do this?

And since I’ve been so involved in this process, and feel emotionally and physically drained (my eyes look terrible this AM), now I know the hard work begins and I feel ill prepared.

Yet I need to figure out what she needs and how I should proceed—I don't want to be assertive per se, nor silent, but am really at a loss as to what to do…..

Do not send her here, you will LOSE this place as a resource.

TALK IS CHEAP. I don't believe she has ended her affair. I think this is a ruse to stop you from your interference. They are very afraid of something. What is it? What exposure are they so scared of, CR?

In the meantime, ask her to agree to stop ALL contact with the OM and send him a letter of no contact. [found in Surviving an Affair] The letter should be written together and sent by you. Her reaction to this will give you a good guage of her sincerity.

It is time to be ASSERTIVE,but not controlling. Lay out a plan for recovery. Tell her this way: "this is what it will take for our marriage to recover" and give her an outline. Article linked. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Ask her to send this to the OM: Dr. Harley's (From SAA)

(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she's been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

CR, help me understand a few things. Does she fly off to be with the OM every weekend? Who is the OM? Is he married? What does he do? How long has this been going on?

Is this a workplace affair?

Please continue the exposure train. Words do not SHOW you anything, they are words. WS's LIE LIE LIE. Keep going, not matter what she says, it's what she DOES.

My WH came home TWICE, once after his first A (long false recovery ~9mos). He was cagey, but began to let his guard down (I had not found MB yet, so I was faltering quite a bit). The second false recovery was in February this year, when he TOLD me he had cut off contact with OW. He DID NOT! Don't you believe it UNTIL you see it.

Fill in those blanks that Melody is talking about. If they work together, notify HR there. I did it and nothing happened, but I did it. Some workplaces will act on what you tell them, be separating the two into separate divisions, offices, etc. Some places just ignore it and sweep it under the rug. STILL, expose there, and EVERYBODY will find out, all of their coworkers will know. That makes many VERY uncomfortable.

ML- Yes, she has flown up to see him nearly every weekend (or so it seems). It’s an hour flight. They met online, do not work with each other, and he just turned 49 (14 years older than WW). Not a workplace affair.

OM is not and has never been married I believe and no kids. Footloose and fancy free, hence part of the fantasy and attraction to be sure.

I feel terrible about the idea that I might be being deceived and hate the fact I even have to give pause to that. I know it might be a plot of manipulation, and I sensed a muted desperation to stop the exposure process, so I’m keen to that. There really isn’t anyone else left to notify anyhow, as her workplace is not typical in that there are a few random outside sales people that she doesn’t interact with regularly and her boss is based out of town.

So I should sit with her to draft the separation letter from OM together? And how do I ensure confirmation of receipt?

When all is said and done, it may be advantageous for this being a remote affair.

Also, is it appropriate for BS to get closure with the OM? Ie: some formal letter that is part of the process?

How do you KNOW this bum is single? Have you ever talked to him? I have a feeling that he has been told she is NOT MARRIED. So it might be advantageous to speak to him personally.

I would find out if he is truly single, though.

I am in shock that she has been so flagrant about her affair, CR.

You should draft the letter together and mail it yourself. Your "closure" is to mail her nc letter.

Also, she needs to account for all her time and give you passwords, etc so you can verify that there is NO CONTACT. Ask her how she will PROVE to you that she is not in contact. And by no contact, we mean NO CONTACT, no emails, no phone calls, no nothing.

[quoteI feel terrible about the idea that I might be being deceived and hate the fact I even have to give pause to that. I know it might be a plot of manipulation, and I sensed a muted desperation to stop the exposure process, so I’m keen to that. [/quote]

RARELY does it end this easily, CR. I am not trying to discourage you, but I really don't believe this is over yet. It usually is not.