Orchid: Thank you, especially for posting at this hour.

If I get off the plan A roller coaster I will not get on again. After that, WH must decide to become my H and return before I will see him again. That is why I am hesitating to get off, have I really done the best plan A I can, maybe I should plan A longer?

Can I blame the fact that he is acting like a moron on "fog" or infatuation? If I had a good friend who would tell me that she has been seeing a married man (I hope it will never happen) and the man has told my friend that his marriage is dead and that he is divorcing his wife but nothing of that kind has happened for more than half a year I would tell my friend that the man is a liar and that she should not waste her time. That is what I hope WH will see, that the person he is chasing after is not worth it.

WH has brought me a lot of gifts during the last weeks. One of his big interests is music and he gave me a CD he thought I might like (which I did), he has brought me chocolate and other smaller gifts. He has always given me small gifts now and then and I have not been so good at that. That is why I wanted to give him the good chocolate. Maybe I should save it for when I have some friends over for dinner (working on my social skills)?

Y-us,

I am gonna give you my list I share with many a BS who wants to survive.

Protective Measures:
1. Secure your financials
2. Secure custody of your children
3. Identify your personal boundaries (plan A)
4. Ientify your M boundaries - should be a short list
5. Create your support group
6. Read up on MB principals
*7. Show no fear - this is a new one I added
8. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience
9. Do not try to teach a WS anything
10. Recognize then you are speak to the WS vs your H
11. Get your mind and heart in sync

Proactive actions:
1. Get a good IC or MC familar with MB principals. Steve H is great at working with BSW and WSHs.

2. Do a good plan A. Do it w/o regrets. Remember plan A is for you.

3. Prepare for plan B and implement when you need to.

4. Do not be afraid of plan B. It is a protective action to keep you off that roller coaster.

5. Learn you separation and D rights.

Right now it appears he is making progress back to the M. But are you really convinced he is back? Not yet.

When he is doing these things for you, do you feel like his W or like his GF? Marriage is more than candy, giifts, etc.

When you are ready, ask him these question:

1. Which do you think you are: Ws, Xws or my real H?

Depending on the response, ask him his plans to work to either becoming your real H or how he plans to stay as your real H. Don't be surprised if he can't answer or give you what you want to hear.

Plan your actions accordingly. Not with anger but in a calm manner, thank him for being honest (if you think he is being honest) and walk away. Do NOT try to teach him anything. If he asks for help, let him know you would like to get help as a coupld because you need help also.

WS' do not like it tha BS has the upper hand so don't over power him with your demands even if you are bursting at the seems t/d so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Instead, let him know you are open to also getting help. This providing he asks for it. If he doesn't, let it go.

At this point you are just feeling for what he thinks his current position is. This will aid you in getting your mind and hearr in sync.

Don't be too harsh, yet you need to be firm. Very hard line to walk.

Be grateful for his gifts but don't lavish on him. He needs to lavish on you but he also needs to realize, gifts will not earn your love and trust back. That is why he needs to learn how to earn your love and trust back.

Read Surviving an Affair and His needs/Her needs. Leave the books around for him to see. Don't show disappointment or surprise to his actions and reactions. Be non-chalant. If he asks, tell him you got them to help you understand what's going on and that His needs/Her needs has taught you some interesting communication tips which different genders use differntly. Peak his interest w/o force. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You are at the stage where he needs to show you beyond a shadow of a doubt, he wants back in the M big time. He needs to know it will take great effort and though you may never forget, if he is truly repentant and sincere, you may choose to forgive. That puts the ball in your court IF he is truly repentant and sincere.

Know that if you need to, you can go to plan B. In our recovery case, using plan B when things became rocky was and is important for me.

The above is a general guideline from the start (plan A, etc.). You need to figure out what you have done and what you need to do that is best for your personal situation.

Hope this helps.

L.

Thank you Orchid! I will read all you written carefully and also re-read everything in this thread and think about it.

I feel that he is keeping a distance to me, that he is afraid to let me near him. It is not just physical but also a mental distance. He does not want to be my husband since he wants to be with OW. I see that as infatuation and I think we can fall in love again. When I tell him that I believe we can love each other again he just says "perhaps".

I know that gifts don't earn trust but I have realised that he has always brought me small gifts now and then. I have not given him those small signs of appreciation but since he thinks it is important to bring me gifts it is probably something he appreciates too. In general I want to be more appreciating and admire him more, he is (has been) a very good man in may ways.

Let him know you appreciate his kindness. I know you want to give him things as well. I think him knowing you appreciate him will go a long ways. In time you can turn that into acts of kindness which include tokens of appreciation. Then it may have a greater impact.

JMHO,
L.

Y-us,

How are you doing today? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.

Orchid, thank you for asking, I appreciate it. I hope that you too are well ;-)

Yesterday I was busy working in the garden and going to my dance class and it was a good day although not very social.

I am beginning to feel (also in my heart) that I can not make WH do anything. If he chooses to continue the affair it is his own silly choice. He is chasing after something which is not real and when he understands that he will look upon all this with different eyes. But there is nothing I can do to make him come to that insight.

One of my friends (who knows nothing about MB) told me early on that he will crash and burn, the question is only if I will be there for him afterwards. It is also sad that the crash and all this mess involve another family with children.

I am still not sure if I should go to plan B or not. I have a good mind to just wait and see for a few weeks. If WH will crash and burn he will probably come to me sooner or later. When he does I will not accept him with open arms, if he asks me if I love him I will tell him that I don't know anymore, I will be the one saying "perhaps" to him.

This is not MB but I think it is common sense. Humans want what they don't have and a cool woman is always more interesting to a man. But of course plan A is essential and I will continue plan A for myself. What do you think?

I have a question regarding what might happen (I know I should not worry too much about that but I want to be prepared).

WH knows that if he is coming back to me he has to promise to never again have any contact with OW.

Let’s say that WH crashes and burns and wants to end to affair forever. That is what I think will happen if/when OW changes her mind again and stays with her family. He has begun to realize that he is on a roller coaster and he does not like the bumpy ride.

In that case he will tell me about it but what should I say to him? I can't just accept that he returns because he realized that OW was a b*****, in that case he may think that it would have been OK to leave if OW had been a great person.

Would it make sense to do something like a 180?

W_U, please, please re-read Orchid's list of things for a betrayed spouse needs to do (above). I would add one thing to the initial list and that is to see a physician and ask him/her to prescribe an antidepressant for you. In your writing, I see a person who is experiencing a lot of mood swings and antidepressants will help even things out for you.

Also, your last two posts concern me a little. I’d like Orchid and believer to address this, but it seems to me you’re beginning to detach from your husband. I hope I’m reading something into your words that isn’t there, but I thought I’d raise the issue for comments.

If there’s a chance you might be, you’re probably a little bit late going into Plan B, IMHO. Dr. Harley says a woman should do Plan A for about 3 months. If you’ve been doing Plan A since February, you’re getting near that point, right?

What have you done in organizing your Plan B? Hint: See Orchid’s list of things to do when starting that plan.

Longhorn: Thank you, I am seeing a counsellor and we have agreed to not use antidepressants. I have occasionally taken some sleeping pills when I have not been able to sleep.

I don't know about detachment, I guess that I am trying to protect myself from being hurt. If I go to plan B knowing that WH is seeing OW, I will most likely detach even more. How can I walk around being married knowing that WH is doing his best to seduce another woman?

When it comes to practical arrangements I can go to plan B today. The only thing I have to organize is for WH to have access to our house (he has property there) and I can arrange that with my in-laws. Or should I arrange a separation? I am just thinking that it will enable the affair if he moves out our furniture and puts them in a flat.

W_U, your husband is indulging himself by committing adultery. It's happening right now and it's not going to stop just because you wish it were so. It's happening whether you see it happening every day or whether you shut a door on it with Plan B and don't watch.

Lady, I think you need to read Dr. Harley's Surviving An Affair, as well as the articles on this website. Better yet, get an appointment with Steve Harley for personalized, professional advice. It seems to me you're wandering about in the wilderness without any real plan to make this better. SH can help you get one together if anyone can.

If you go to Plan B, you most certainly WILL detach further, particularly in the last stages of that strategy. That is a recognized part of Plan B. If the overall strategy of Dr. Harley's program doesn't work, Plan B allows you the separation from your spouse to gain the strength to accept that your partner is not going to recover his sanity and come back to you. In that sense, it does foster more detachment.

Please read up on Dr. Harley’s program and work with someone to develop your strategy…and please do it soon.

Please don't judge me for this but I don't know if I can continue working for our marriage.

I talked to WH today and he still wants to see OW. I told him the following:
I am so sorry for my contribution to what made our marriage bad and I am sorry that I did not meet his needs. I am working on myself to become a better person and I want to build a healthy life in all aspects, in particular a healthy relationship where both spouses are happy and care for each other. If he wants to see me again I expect him to break all contact with OW and to give up any hidden agenda. If he does not agree to that I will not see him. I told him that I don't want to ride a roller coaster, I want to move forward (I hope that he will realize that he is tumbling around in the same spot and get worried when he understands that I am going to a better place).

He was crying when I told him all this but I just felt cold most of the time. He was such a mess, sitting in his crowded untidy room with his vision of OW leaving her husband (which will happen the same day pigs start flying). I was really beginning to wonder why in the world I should care about this man. I am sure that there are other men who are just as caring as he has been and have a lot in common with me and he has left me, lied to me and generally seems to be out of his mind. The obvious reason is that I married him but I don't feel like he is the man I married anymore.

So now I am in plan B but I am thinking about divorce. I am still young, I want to have children, I want to have a family and a good man, I don't want to spend years waiting for a [censored] who runs after OW like a dog.

Judge you heck....I think you sound perfectly sane and have taken steps towards putting the ball in your WH's court. Let him have it. You established your boundaries now stick to them. You are darn right about not spending years waiting on some sick little man who would rather chase married women and then cry because they used him that honor his vows, commitment, values, etc.

Stay strong.

I just don't know if I should go through with plan B and in that case for how long. I have to make that decision for myself but I would appreciate any opinions.

I am still glad that I did plan A. I feel that I have improved myself and I know that I have done what I can to save our marriage.

How long have you been married? What marriage is this for both of you? Do you have children?

Thank you hopeandpray!

We married in 2001, no children, we have been very close to each others extended families.

I feel that we have been a unity, it is hard to describe but he has really been my closest family member and my best friend and I believe I have been that for him too. We have had tough times together and ups and downs but we have always found each other again. I think that our marriage is worth saving but I am not ready to do that at any cost.

When we have talked now he has told me that he has loved me more than anything else but he does not feel like that now since he is in love with OW. Yesterday he said that he does not know why he just left me but he “collapsed” and could not stand it anymore.

Two days of plan B and it is already difficult to maintain no contact.

I went to an outing with my friends today, we had a pic-nic and enjoyed the nice weather. When I got there I realised that someone had invited WH. I did not look at him and I don't know if or how often he tried to make eye contact with me. His brother was there too and he came up to me and I was friendly and chatted with him about his new job and other news. When I saw WH approaching us I just rounded off the conversation and started talking to a friend next to me. Immediately afterwards I actually looked at WH from behind his shoulder and I believe he had tears in his eyes. When we were leaving WH came up to me and tried to start a conversation but I just answered his question, smiled, turned to a friend and said: Well, I think we should get going.

I don't know how to deal with common friends and problem is that almost all my friends are also friends of WH. Should I avoid them or should I ask in advance if he is coming or not? What should I do if he just turns up as he did today? Is treating him as thin air a love buster?

Exposure. Let all know that due to his A, you have had to separate. Find out if they are willing t/b part of your support group to help both of you (you and H not the WS part of his character). If they are reluctant, don't fret. Just thank them for their friendship and walk away.

For those who are willing to help, let them know you are willing to hear their POVs but ask they respect your decisions since you are not able to give all info to all.

L.

Thank you Orchid.

But I think I have to choose if I want to go on with some social activities or if I want to have completely no contact with WH. For example, the picnic I wrote about was not very formal. We were 15 persons in a park and nobody was sure in advance who would show up. WH was there with his brother and there are a few persons in this group who would never do anything to keep WH from joining them, they are his old friends from college. So even if some of my friends would agree to not invite WH when they invite me, my social life also involves his closest friends. Should I just avoid that kind of events?

But I have to say that I am rather satisfied with the outcome of the picnic considering the circumstances. I was enjoying myself, laughing, talking to my friends and I was as social and nice as I want to be. I was wearing my new tight fitted jeans and a simple sleeveless top, I had my hair done last week and I looked great. If WH wants to leave a woman like that to be with an old unfaithful bag he should have his head examined.

Yesterday I went for dinner with some friends, all female. Before this mess started I have always been a social, outgoing person but the last months have been tough on me and I have not been laughing much. Yesterday I felt like my old self again, I was 100% in the conversation and enjoyed it.

All my friends I met yesterday are either married or in stable relationships and some of them have children. When we were going home it struck me that everyone was going home to their husband or boyfriend except me. Me and H were always the happiest couple anyone could imagine. If I would have come home from a dinner one year ago he would have welcomed me home and told me that he hoped I had enjoyed myself. When I got home to our empty house I was so sad and the whole situation seemed so absurd.

How can he do this? How can he just walk away from the person who has been so close to him and who he has promised to live with? And on top of all he is doing this for a woman who is just (as it seems) playing with him.

I am glad that I gave him all our photos, I don't want to see them. They would just remind me of everything we have had together and what he is throwing away.

Plan A was a roller coaster but plan B is also a roller coaster in a different way. Sometimes I feel strong and confident and prepared to go through recovery and rebuild our marriage. Sometimes I just want a divorce and a new life. And sometimes I am just crying and asking myself why this has happened to us, the most loving couple in the world.

I don't even know what I want anymore. If WH comes back and is ready to fulfil my conditions (I was almost going to write WHEN he comes back) I am not sure that I am prepared to take him back. He has hurt me so much and he has showed me that he is ready to give up all his commitments for his own pleasure. I want children and they need a good father who will not walk away.

I know I should not spy on WH but I could not resist the temptation to speak to a friend who knows OW and OWH. She told me that they are reconciling - again. Seems like OW is going for another lap on the roller coaster. I wonder if she has told WH that she is not leaving this time either?

I think WH was driving past our house yesterday. I was cleaning the windows when I saw a car which looked like WH's drive slowly in the street and the driver looked a lot like WH although I am not 100% sure. There is no good reason he should drive on that street unless he wants to see either the house or me.