Hi schoolbus, thank you for asking. We had dinner last night. It was rather strange since I have not even talked to him for so long. I couldn't get it into my head that he is the same person I have lived with for so long. But when I look at him I know that somewhere inside he must still be the man I love.

We talked about everything except for the affair. I know, I pretend that there is not an elephant in the middle of the room but for me it was like picking up plan A for one evening. WH said that it felt good to see me again and that he wants to meet me again. I did not say much to that but I have decided that this was a one time shot. If he wants to see me again he must agree to my conditions. I will not accept crumbs.

One of my friends told me that he has seen my WH and asked me if our divorce is final. He thought so since he had visited my WH together with some other (male) friends and who walks in the door but OW and her oldest child. It did not seem like WH had planned it, it was a very informal get together and OW stayed only for a few minutes. Maybe she was ashamed to meet people who are MY friends, I can imagine that they were not friendly to her.

My friend said that he was convinced that the divorce was final "How could they meet like that if they are still married?" and he was surprised to hear that they are still both married. What are they thinking about? How can OW take her little daughter to see her lover and his friends? I understand that people at their workplaces are not happy about the affair at least.

What should I tell my friend? When I spoke to him I just said that it is up to everyone to decide what kind of life they want to live and what kind of people they want to be with and that he could draw his own conclusions. What if he invites WH to his home and WH takes OW with him? I would not be there for sure but the thought just makes me sick.

I forgot. Why haven't you gone to Plan B?

Hi believer, I have been in plan B since June but I decided to break it this weekend because I felt that the only possible alternative for me was divorce. I did not even remember my husband anymore. If you are making a point about me having contact with WH I am taking it, but I only wanted to take a look at him.

What should I do about my friend? Should I tell him that I don't want any information about WH? Should I accept to have him as my friend if he hangs around with WH and possibly OW?

Now I have talked to my friend about WH and OW. I told him that I feel hurt since I think that he accepts and approves of the affair by talking to OW. I said that I can't tell him what to do but I think that he should decide what kind of people he wants in his life. He said that he does not want to break contact with WH but he has no intention to socialize with OW. It was a very painful conversion for me and I believe it was painful for him too. We have been friends since we were teenagers and I have always regarded him as a person with high moral. He has told me that he does not support adultery and that he thinks that my WH is doing the wrong thing but apparently he does not have the guts to tell him that.

Another question about OW and her daughter. I have a feeling that WH and OW are pushing for their friends and family to accept the affair. I think it is rather tasteless of her to let her little daughter meet my WH and his friends. If I would be a single mother I would not want my children to meet a new boyfriend until I was sure that it would last and since they are still married it is just ridiculous to believe that the "relationship" is serious.

Now I have to stop thinking about this. I was crying after I talked to my friend and I will do my best to not waste any more energy on this. I will do some exercise and meet a good friend this weekend. Apart from that I have some reading to do and I have to make some cakes, my birthday is coming up soon.

I wrote a letter to WH. I will not send it to him but I am posting it here to vent.

"I wanted to meet you to find out if I still love you. I do. Despite all that has happened I still love you with all my heart. We have so much in common, a long history, and we could have so many happy days together. I feel that you are a good man who came to a point where you did bad things. And you are the (his name) I have known and loved for so long.

It hurts me indescribably that you are seing (OWHs) wife. If you want to see me again you must discontinue your contact with her. Besides that you have to tell me your plan for how our marriage will work out in the future.

I am trying to be a good woman and wife, I know that I have done wrong sometimes but I want to do the right thing and I want to make you happy and whole. I believe that I can be happy and whole with you but only if you want to be here.

You are the only one I have ever loved and you are in my heart."

The part of him being a good man is just a kind of admiration. When we have talked about our relationship and the affair he has repeatedly said that he is a "bad" man and I want him to feel that he is not bad, his actions are bad, and he can choose to do good things instead.

Well, I am not sending the letter but it is how I feel today. I don't know what triggered this, maybe it was me seeing WH again and maybe it was what my friend told me about OW. But maybe that is not a bad thing, the way they seem to struggle to make people around them accept the affair makes me think that their consciences give them the guilt they deserve.

"I think it is rather tasteless of her to let her little daughter meet my WH and his friends."

LOL - I think it is rather tasteless to date a married man!

Right now you need to be NOT thinking about hubby. Now is the time to make changes in YOU. Have you thought about things that he complained about BEFORE the affair? That is what you need to be working on.

The friends thing is hard, but many, many friends DO meet and socialize with the OW.

My ex wants to get back together and start dating, and that is a MAJOR reason why I wouldn't even go anywhere with him- his friends and family accepted the OW in my place. Now he wants me to go places with the same friends and his family, and I just think it would be too difficult to work through.

why_us.........In my opinion, its time to divorce. If your WH hasnt made his mind up in a years time.....and you two dont have children. I wouldnt waste any more time on this man. You can find someone to love and loves you as much in return. It probably does not seem like that to you right now, but trust me.......you will be happier.

JMHO at this point.

Thank you believer, you are absolutely right. But I still think it is a shame to drag a little girl into this, I feel that the main reason is that they want to normalize the affair/relationship.

I have been thinking about me and made changes to myself. He used to complain that I had become less social. Now I have so much on my schedule that I sometimes don't even have time to sleep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> For example the concert last week, I went there with my new friend Agnes and it was great, a young indie band, we were dancing and enjoying the music. A few years ago I was always the adventure girl, I used to do a lot of snowboarding and travelling, but the last years I have kind of been sinking down in stress and monotony. I don't want that and this summer I started learning white water kayaking which my husband would love to do (at least he has said so in the past).

Most important for me is that I am working on my own state of mind. I want to be happy and meet every day with a smile (sometimes the day is not smiling back but I can handle that too).

About friends I know that I can't consider a person to be my "friend" if he or she accepts OW. If they do that I will walk away. It would hurt me tremendously but the alternative is worse.

One side effect of my ex's affair was a loss of about half my friends. Those who accepted the OW were written off as friends. But that is just me.

Yes, work on getting out and having fun. That is probably one reason he fell in love. You can be that adventurous and fun loving person again.

The more time goes by, the better things should be getting if you are really working on changing yourself. I changed so much, I no longer wanted my husband back.

Yesterday was a good day in more than one way.

At lunch I ran into a friend from my old workplace. We said our hellos and then she said "wow, you really look great, how come that you are beaming like that, is your new job that good?" I told her that I am feeling well and I am, at least most of the time.

In the evening I went to play canoe polo with my club. Canoe polo is an odd sport but really really fun if you like kayaking. The practice is so much fun and we are learning to play together as a team which is great. Afterwards I was driving some of the girls from the team home and it just dawned on me that here I was, laughing and talking to my friends and planning ski trips later this winter and if it wasn't for the affair I might not even know these people. I started doing white water kayaking alone, if I would have done it with my H I would probably not have been so open to new people as I was and I would probably not have taken up canoe polo. What a bore that would have been!

After dropping the girls off I drove home in my new car which I have bought all by myself and I turned up the stereo and felt like a strong, cool woman who can do whatever I want to. It felt good.

I don't know what to make out of what happened just before Christmas. WH called me and said that he wanted to wish me a merry christmas. I know that I should just have said "Are you ready to meet my conditions?" but I wished him a merry christmas too. He said that he has been thinking about me and that it was nice to see me again. He told me that he has kept away from me since I had told him that I don't anything to do with him as long as he is seeing OW. He told me that they have "some kind of relationship" but he doesen't know if it will lead to anything. He also said that he knows that he messed up our lives last autumn and that he feels like he has lost his best friend ever. I told him that I am still here and he said "yes, remarkably enough you are still here". I told him that I won't accept a relationship without any commitment from him and that I don't know if I can love him again. He replied "Well, there is no way to know if you don't try, is it?". In my head I was jumping up and down screaming "BINGO!" but luckily enough I did not show anything of that kind to him.
He is spending christmas with his parents where we have spent many happy holiday together. I don't know what OW is up to but according to my intelligence (a friend in her workplace) she was on sick leave for more than a week before christmas and will be on vacation for two weeks now, most probably with her family. WH is going back to work tomorrow and is very busy (at least that is what he told me). Sounds like affair land is not a glossy fantasy world anymore, doesen't it? In fact it sounds so bad that I can't understand why WH chooses to go on with it. How can he prefer this mess instead of working on our marriage? We had a wonderful honeymoon and we have been so happy together. If he compares our first years together (I recall them as permanent bliss and he telling me that I made him the happiest man in the world) with "some kind of relationship" with a woman who runs to her husband for christmas, how can he go on with this?
When we talked he said that he has been thinking about all the time we have spent together and how we have cared for each other. I said that I have those dear memories too but what is important is what we do with our future and that I want to be happy and take care of the people I love. I said that I have taken a good look at myself and decided that I am going to be a good person and have a wonderful, interesting life and if he doesen't want to be a part of that there is nothing I can do about it. I could hear that it made some impression on him and I could almost recognise my old H, admiring me...
There are a few possible explanations for the phone call:
1. False recovery attempt. WH is lonely and wants to feel that his family cares for him during christmas and gets his fix by calling me.
2. The affair is crumbling and WH is sick and tired of sitting alone in his room waiting for OW to call for him.
3. Lies, lies, lies, WH is happy with OW and thinks that they are soul mates. He lets me think that he is unhappy just in case OW would run back to her husband.
Either way it should not change anything. I am going back to plan B until WH meets my conditions. But I have had disturbing dreams the last week about vacations, our first home, the time he collapsed and was taken to hospital and how happy he was that I was there when he woke up... It sure hurts that he has left this for "some kind of relationship".

WH called me up and wanted to talk to me. He had some problems getting to the point but he said that his life is still in chaos (his own words) and most interesting: He is no longer seeing OW.

I asked him what he wanted to tell me and he said that he didn't know and that he could not promise anything. Eventually he said that he was sorry for disturbing me and that he was still too confused to know what he wants. He told me that he will be travelling for a few weeks to a course and that he will take that time to let himself calm down.

I don't expect anything, I have lots of other things to think about. I am very busy with my new exciting job, the skiing season has just started and there is always canoe polo. But it is a good thing that he is not seeing OW anymore.

why_us, we sound a lot alike, but I've got three teens. I've gone back and read a few of your posts. I'm not so much angry at my WH as I am sad for him, me and the kids. He's going to lose out in the end.

Sometimes he comes and acts like he might be changing his mind, but then leaves to stay the night as usual with her and her two younger kids.

I also start thinking about his bad habits. And start wondering do I really want him back, or am I just wanting something because right now I can't have it.

You sound like a very strong person. The canoe polo sounds like a blast. Good for you going out and meeting new people!

I wish you the best!

Soon

SerenitySoon: Thank you for your reply. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have children in this situation. I think you are the one being strong.

It is really helpful to try new things and build a good network of friends. I hope that you are also doing that. And I am sure that you are a true gooddess!

I get so tired of my ridiculous WH. He wanted to talk to me again and I let him. I know that it destroys my plan B but I am really loosing my patience and feel that either we talk and work things out or I will file for divorce soon.

He said that he misses me but he is very confused and doesen't know what he wants. He said that he can't give me 100% and than he doesen't want to start anything with me. I opened up my heart to him and told him that I still feel that the two of us can be happy together again and that we have been through so much together, good and bad. But I also said that if he doesen't want, that is up to him and I can't do anything to fix it.

He then said that he is afraid, that he collapsed in our relationship and that he lost the feeling that I was an irreplacable part of his life. I told him that relationships heal and that feelings can return if you allow them and do good things for each other (the love bank! but I did not use those words). He said that things have changed, too much water under the bridge and yada yada. I don't know if he is going to see OW again but actually it makes no difference as long as he doesen't commit to our marriage.

I asked him if he is happy and he said no, he is not happy. All lies and betrayal - for what? I know that if he would be with OW and act as if he was happy that would hurt too but it just seems like such a waste.

After I talked to him I turned on some fresh music I got yesterday and started thinking about fun things I am planning. I bought a new snowboard last month, I have used it for a few days and will be out much more. And when the winter is over the kayaking season is starting and this summer I will do much more white water kayaking. I will have fun and if WH is missing out on that it is too bad for him but I can't do anything about it.

I don’t know what to do. I have completely messed up my plan B but maybe it is for the better. I have not heard anything from WH for a while and stupid as I am I called him. He started chatting as if everything was just fine but before he got too far I broke down. I told him that I could not talk to him and that I was going to hang up. He said no, don’t hang up, we have to work this out. I asked him what he was up to and he said that he was trying to avoid both me and OW. I basically said WTF, avoid me, where are you trying to get with that?

I was upset and told him that I carry with me memories of all days we have spent together, all places we have been and everything we have done and do you want to close the door to all that? I said that I am trying to do right what I have done wrong and I have believed that he also wants to do the right thing but if he doesn’t start showing it soon I will stop wasting my time. He mumbled a lot and said that he can’t see me because he doesn’t want to commit to our relationship and he knows that is what I want. He said that he is so sorry for what he has done to me and he never wants to do it again. I said that I will not contact him again. He asked if he can call me and I said yes, if you are ready to fulfill my conditions.

Is my husband gone forever? He used to be so dedicated and ready to go anywhere for me and now he is trying to avoid me. It would be so easy to file for divorce and look for another fish in the sea (sorry about the phrasing but I am not in a good mood today). I know that I am good and I am honest and reliable. I could find a good man who would adore me. But I still love that moron who is hiding from the consequences of his stupid choices. I should not have called him and I should not have said any of what I said but I have always had my feelings on the outside and I can’t pad around pretending to be cool with the crap he comes up with.

He claims that he is avoiding OW too. I know that he has relocated to another office in our town but he is still with the same company as before (it was a workplace affair). That is not proof of NC and he has not sent a NC letter (he must send one if he wants to come back to me). I am so insulted that he actually refers to OW as if she was a normal girlfriend and he a normal boyfriend, to me she is a cheating, lying ***** who goes after a married man and has sex with him in a storage room for office supplies. Of course my WH is equally sleazy and I would fully understand if OWH would want to hit him in the face repeatedly.

Either he is lying about not seeing OW or he is really avoiding her. When he was seeing OW he was almost bragging about it and tried to show her to our friends. If they are still seeing each other but no longer in public it can’t go on for long without anyone knowing. But what should I do? Is there a chance that he will want to recover our marriage? Or should I just go for a divorce and move on with my life, possibly with another man?

Most of all I would like to know when it stops hurting. I slept badly tonight and I have been sobbing since I woke up. My cats came to check up on me and one of them tried to cheer me up by biting my upper arm, at least there is some true love.

You need to stay in Plan B. Sounds to me like the affair is still going on. Stop hurting yourself by breaking no contact with him. When you feel like contacting him, come here and post.

Thank you believer. I am definitely not going to call him again, at least I have learned that much.

When I wrote that maybe it is for the better that I broke plan B and got hurt I was thinking that the less love I have for him the easier it would be to go through with a divorce. Why should I go on like this? I am just wasting my time and I could start building a new life fresh and free from waywards.

You should be doing Plan B to protect yourself and your love for him. And it is good to do everything you can to save the marriage so that you can look back in 5 years with no regrets.