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See the I THINK I WENT DARK - HELP thread

Thanks Chrisner.

Please do not do the flyers. It will only make you look crazy.

I'm a military wife. Married to a former serial adulterer. We've now been in our 'new' marriage for 3 1/2 years. We even have a new son (almost 2 years old, after he was soo adamant to not have another one. Guess who asked to have another baby after reconciliation?) Hubby is currently at Guantanamo Bay for 12 months. This is the first time he's been away form home where I do not feel panicked or lonely or scared. Its quite refreshing.

I read your other post about the letter you sent and that it looks like you may have gone dark.

I hope you have. Honestly.

What the other marriage builders here are trying to help you understand is that although it appears your husband is quite happy with the OW and doesn't want you around... he keeps you around, doesn't he? Has he made any move towards divorce? Legal seperation? He still chats with you on the phone. He still has a part of you he isn't letting go of. Right now he still gets his wife of 18 years when HE FEELS LIKE IT and gets to play the stud-- although its more than likely a mid-life crisis.

I am pretty darned sure that if his wife of 18 years suddenly cut him off he would FLIP OUT. WS's do NOT like it when things are taken from them at all.

The thing is, until you stop fulfilling whatever needs it is your husband gets from you, he has no reason to give up his OW. Often a wayward spouse finds life isn't so grand when its just them and the other person. They start missing their spouse. They start wondering what you are up to.

You absolutely should expose to her family. Let them know that there is a wife out there who is not willing to share.Just be honest and calm when you talk to them.

Just wondering how close you are to retirement? Melody is right in the fact that its extremely hard to marriage build long distance. Believe me, I tried. Thisisn't to say its impossible, but just want you to know it will be very difficult.

Thanks, everything you said is true. I think he is flipping out because he has called me almost every hour on the hour. For the past 3 weeks, he stopped calling me. It was as if he were trying to ignore me so maybe he could forget about me. I called him every few days just to chat which I think was something he liked.
I have a letter I wrote to her mother and I am going to deliver it personally the next time I go home. Do you think I could mail it? I am extremely emotional and there is just no way I can talk on the phone without breaking down.
I still have 6 more years until retirement and if this marriage does go belly-up I'm going to need my pension. I came in late so a 2nd career will not be possible. I can get another job but I won't work long enough for a good pension plan.
Regarding divorce and separation, I have given him the opportunity for both. He said he wasn't sure if he wanted to end the marriage. I told him we should start splitting up our debt while we are unofficially separated. I came up with a fair plan and he said he wanted to think about it. This is a man who does not make decisions. He is happy to let someone else make it for him.
I too think it's mid-life and I believe everyone makes mistakes and should be forgiven. It's so hard when the person you love continues the hurt with no regard for anyone.
Thanks for your encouragement, I needed someone who understood my military situation. I know that trying to do this long distance will be extremely difficult but I am committed, I know my chances are slim to none, she has the advantage of everyday contact with him but as long as the D word doesn't come up I still have hope. I will persevere. Because we were both in the military, I know what being lonely is like but I have never felt alone. Now I feel alone.

((TWBD))
I understand feelig alone. Just look around here, however, and know that you are not.
You need to put together a plan for yourself and decide on a time limit for it. This affair of his has gone on for a very long time now. He's a fence sitter and you need to knock him off it very soon.
Are you participating in the thrift savings plan, too? I htink that is what its called. We have six years left, too, but hubby and I are 36. He started right out of high school.
Do you think there is a possibility once you retire that you could teach ROTC at a high school? It pays pretty well and my father teaches it here in Kentucky. I'm in Hopkinsville.

I think you should politely deliver the letter to her mother in person. Let her see you are REAL. This also makes sure it gets to her.

Been 3 days since last post. He is still calling, I haven't answered the phone. He has left a couple of messages, the last one being "I guess we can consider this as being over, when I get back from NY we can start proceedings." I want to send a text message saying "I love you, as long as you are still with Sarah we have nothing to say to each other." Would this be OK?

You saw what HopeThisWorks wrote to you, right? It is not Plan B to contact him in any way. TWBD, right now he is testing you to see just how serious you are about this. He wants to know if you are still "on the hook" or if you're serious. If you cave in now and TM him, what you are telling him is, "I can only last a few days without you and as long as we are together you don't have to take anything I say very seriously." OTOH, if you stay strong, and fight your own inner urge to contact him, you are telling him, "I am dead serious about this. When I say I will not be part of your harem, I mean it."

So I don't care if you have to come on here every 5 minutes all night long and talk to us...DON'T YOU CONTACT HIM!!! If I had everyone on MB sign this thread whom I had stayed up with all night getting them through Plan B withdrawals it would be a mile long. Don't TM him!! Come and talk to us instead!!!

Your faithful friend,



CJ

If you respond to him you are continuing to teach him that every time he brings up divorce, that you will cave.
He absolutely knows why you aren't talking to him, believe me.
Stay dark. Make HIM expend the energy to reach you.

I caved. His dad had by-pass surgery on Monday and there were some complications. My mom died from complications from by-pass and he was there for me so I just couldn't not be there for him. We talked a couple of times but on Tuesday evening he said he was overdrew his bank account and asked me for money. Yes, I gave it to him. The very next morning I left him a voicemail saying that he made the choice to be with Sarah. That doesn't mean being with her and having me provide him with money. He can't use me like that. I told him that if he is ready to give our marriage a chance that I am willing to talk. If not then we have no more reason to communicate. I haven't heard from him since. I should never have given him the money and I should never talked to him - I realize that. Did I mess everything up?

No, TWBD...you did not mess up everything.

This is a little like riding a horse. You ride along and you do okay. Then the path gets a little twisty and weird and you fall off. SOME damage is done (a cut...a bruise) but it's not too bad. You get back on the horse and keep riding. The reason you try to stay on the horse during the twisty weird stuff is that there is always the chance of breaking a leg or breaking your neck if you fall off! It could do SERIOUS damage!!! So do your best to stay on the horse.

BTW...pssssssssssssst...the horse is not contacting him while you're in Plan B.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Thanks CJ, I feel better. Could it be that since I haven't heard from him that he might be giving me the silent treatment in retaliation?

Since I am so far away, would a registered letter do? Doesn't the adressee have to sign for it? Should I wait until the next time I go home? What would I say when I gave it to her?

TWBD,

After re-reading your post, it seems like you're a little "all over the place" so let's review for a second, okay?

Have you done a good Plan A? Plan A does not mean "Plan Doormat"--it means that you acknowledge the issues that YOU have and you work on your issues. You take a moment to soul search, and you admit the LB's that you participated in. You do your best to discover your H's EN's and to meet those needs in a way that pleases him. See...back in the day when you were dating and you were authentically YOU, you attracted him. Plan A is becoming that woman again. There is a carrot and a stick to Plan A: the carrot is that you make the changes within you that you need to make to become a healthy individual anyway...you avoid LB's and you meet the EN's he'll let you meet; the stick is that you in a healthy and assertive manner, you don't buy into the WS blame game or continue to dance in the dysfunctional dance, so that when the WS pulls their malarkey, you call them on it. So...did you do a good Plan A?

Next, did you expose the A? Exposure does not mean in a retaliatory, vengeful fashion that you put a full page ad in the paper. Nope, exposure is bringing their secret, fantasy "relationship" out into the open to people who are likely to be able to help you champion your marriage...people like OP's spouse, your parents, his parents, your pastor, close friends, his boss, her boss, etc....people who are going to tell your WS "...What are you doing man? You have a family and a commitment and a wife--you can't have a GF! Now man up and work things out with your wife!"

If you have not done either of these things, then THAT is where you need to start before you go into Plan B. OTOH, if you feel pretty comfortable with your Plan A and if you feel like everyone who can help your marriage has been told, then I suggest you prepare a formal Plan B letter. See in my signature, there is a sample plan b letter...click on that for some help.

Plan B is for the A that has been going on for a while (3-6 months) and the WS is stubbornly refusing to end it no matter who knows or what it costs. During Plan A, you have demonstrated to the WS that you can change, that you are willing to accept responsibility for your part in it but NOT take the blame for their choices...and the WS is still under the fantasy/addiction of the A. During Plan B, you give them the chance to fully experience the consequences of their A and give them the chance to try to have all their ENs met by the OP. To a lot of people, Plan B feels like they're giving their WS to the OP...as if they are giving them the chance. Yep! you are!! Because what happens is that the A was "born" in a fantasy of no disagreements, no life circumstances, living happily ever after. Well...that's not REAL. In REAL life, there are bills to pay, and not enough money because there's also child support and alimony...and OP gets pissed because WS can't pay ALL Their Attention all the time...and eventually the WS begins to see that life with OP is just as bad or WORSE than the worst it ever was with their spouse!

The trick to a good Plan B is that the BS must not have contact with the WS--give the WS a good dose of what it will be like to not have BS there as their friend. Most WS's have this illusion that since they are happy and "in love" that everyone will be happy FOR THEM and that they will keep the BS in their life as "friends" and the BS will continue doing all the stuff they always did except that the OP will be there for "love and sex." Seriously!! Is that deluded or WHAT!!?? So give your WS a good dose of what life WITHOUT you is like...and what life WITH OP will be like!! It's not so rosy, let me tell ya!!

The other trick to a good Plan B is YOU. You are just as addicted to WS as he is to his A, so you are going to have to go through withdrawals from WS. No matter what, do NOT contact him to get your fix!! He will call and call...when HE wants something. He will demand and blame and do all kinds of things to push your buttons to make you contact him--including making threats about custody or whatever in order to return to being in control. Don't you do it!!!! Resist that temptation and focus on YOU. If you can get through the first week or two resisting that temptation to contact...usually they give up and then you can begin the process of working on yourself, gaining some confidence, detaching from the A drama, and getting on with a healthy life.

TWBD, I suggest a good Plan B letter that gives him the steps he needs to do to return to the M. I suggest finding a good intermediary. And then, if you want to deliver it via certified mail, return receipt...that's fine.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

I don't know how to make those little boxes so bear with me.

Have you done a good Plan A? Plan A does not mean "Plan Doormat"--it means that you acknowledge the issues that YOU have and you work on your issues. You take a moment to soul search, and you admit the LB's that you participated in. You do your best to discover your H's EN's and to meet those needs in a way that pleases him.

Dday was July 2006. Didn't know about MB but did buy Dr Harley's book SA and about 8 other books. Yes, I made many changes, got IC, quit one of my jobs so I could come home every 2 weeks vice every couple of months, got permission from my command to go on Flextime so I could have a 3-day weekend once a month. When I went home, I focused completely on being a supportive and loving wife. At the same time, yes, I was his doormat. I had asked him to spend the weekends I came home with me and not see her but he refused. Instead he would sometimes spend Thursday night with me, Friday with her, and part of Saturday with me. If I brought it up he would say there you go again trying to tell me what to do. Here comes another argument, and so on. So I let it go. He has acknowledged the changes I have made but says he doesn't think he wants to end it with her. I ask if he wants to end our marriage and he says he isn't sure. I think if you are so in love with a person, nothing would stop you from being with that person. He knows how much I love him and how committed I am to saving our marriage. I didn't know I was in Plan A but I think I did it OK.

Next, did you expose the A?
I told his family and my family right away. His family told him they loved him and would support whatever decision he made. He took this as meaning it was OK with them. They really don't want to get involved so I have no help there. He won't talk to anyone in my family because he is ashamed. I don't think her mother knows and I am trying to figure out a way to communicate with her. I am 600 miles away so I can't just drive over to see her. I have a letter and I was thinking about sending it registered mail to her place of employment which is also where my husband works and where his mistress used to work. Or I can wait until I go home again and personally deliver it. Just don't know what to say when I give it to her. There is no one else to help me. I'm pretty much alone in this.

eventually the WS begins to see that life with OP is just as bad or WORSE than the worst it ever was with their spouse!

This has been going on for almost 3 years. They have had disagreements, broke up a couple of times but always got back together. She has two sons, one which he is totally in love with; the other has ADHD/ADD and is completely out of control. My husband has no patience so I know this is one of the reasons he is still on the fence. Since I am stationed in DC and he is living in KY he has the freedom to go home when life with "fantasy family" gets on his nerves. So even going Plan B will not force him to face the real life family situation with her. The last time I went home I told him to not be there and not return until I left. That condition is still in place, I am going home on Thursday for 11 days and he will be forced to stay with her and the boys. Most of the time however, I will only be home for a long weekend and he will have his sanctuary the rest of the time when he wants it.

So give your WS a good dose of what life WITHOUT you is like...and what life WITH OP will be like!! It's not so rosy, let me tell ya!!

I was on a good ride for a bit, then I caved. I gave him money and I shouldn't have. Money is where he will hurt the most. He is high maintenance, I got the 2nd job so he could buy the things he wanted. With her, there will be no extra money. He will be supporting a wife and 2 kids (she is barely making it right now). He will have to give all his money to her. If I hadn't of given him the money he would be having a dose of reality right now. I'm back on the horse now.

I suggest a good Plan B letter that gives him the steps he needs to do to return to the M.

I sent the following letter about 2-weeks ago, didn't mean for it to be a Plan B. He never said anything about receiving it. I called him on the 8th of May but didn't leave a message. His phone would have shown a missed call. He called me the following evening saying he just saw that I called but he was on his way into town (to be with her) and would get with me sometime in the week. That's when I jumped into Plan B (again, not meaning to). He left several messages during the next two-days and I didn't answer but since my letter said nothing about my expectations, I left him a message on our home machine (I knew he wouldn't be home). I told him that I loved him but if things continue on the way they are I will start hating him. So to protect my love for him we will have no more contact as long as he is seeing Sarah. That was the last communication on my part until the thing with his dad. This time I haven't heard a word from him.

Jim,

I love you, I miss you, but most of all I miss us.

The past 10 months have been the worst I could ever imagine. The possibility of facing life without you in it is just more than I can bear. I cried when the minister said "Till death do you part" because I knew we were forever. I am still in shock that I didn't see our relationship unraveling. As you know I have made a lot of improvements in mysself and in my priorities. I know in my heart that if given the chance, we can have a wonderful new relationship as man and wife. I realize that my past attempts to reconcile have been a one-sided effort. You have told me many times that you are not sure if you want a divorce and as long as you feel that way, you will not be able to choose to join in the effort. However, you did choose to turn away from your vows and be with someon else. Obviously, I have to let you go because coming back has to be something you want to do just like you wanted to do when we got married. We have always been good friends and I want to remain that way for as long as we can. This entire experience has been extremely painful but I am going to make it. I have loved you for so many years and even though you say we didn't have any, I have many great and happy memories to remember. Find what you are looking for Jim and remember I am here for you.
I love you no matter what, Bobby

I suggest finding a good intermediary.

Unfortunately there is no one. Being in the military, friends come and go. I can't think of a single person who would even want to get involved.

You are just as addicted to WS as he is to his A, so you are going to have to go through withdrawals from WS.

I have been going through withdrawal for the past 10 months, I understand the addition. Since I am already physically separated from him, I was already used to that. Not communicating has been the hardest for me because we used to talk every day. I have made my mind up and I AM NOT going to speak with him again. It's easier to be this way when he is calling, but now that he is not calling, I find myself waiting for the calls to come. I am so whacked!

This was longer than intended but I wanted to address all your questions. Thanks for helping me to focus.

For the first time in my life I wish I weren't in the military.

Back to my original question. Would sending the OW's mother a letter via registered mail be OK? Or should I wait until I go home and give it to her personally; if I do, what would I say to her?

Personally, I'd deliver it to her personally. Of course, I am not sure how registered mail works, but I wouldnt take the chance that someone else would intercept it.

Let her know you are still married to your husband and that inspite of the difficulties you face with living apart, that you love him and still want to save your marriage. Make sure she knows you are not around because you are serving your country, not because you abandoned your WH. Maybe ask if she could find it in her heart to speak to her daughter about dating a married man with a wife who loves him.

Expect your WH to FLIP OUT when he finds out you contacted teh family. Wait for the fallout. It will definately come. I can't think of one single WS that didn't threaten their spouse after exposure. Don;t let it frighten you.

And don't fall off your horse! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, since I'm going home next week, I will deliver it personally. Should I remind my WH that I am going to be home? I can send him a tm but would that be considered contact? We don't have an intermediary so I told him if he needed to contact me he could do so by TM. I know he has forgotten and I really don't want him to be there because I think he might get ugly (not violent). He hasn't called once since I told him he couldn't have any more money. Maybe he just needs time to cool down. I must say that withdrawal isn't as bad as I thought it would be but I do keep looking at the phone. When I deliver the letter to her mom and he finds out, will I panic?

Here is the letter I am going to give to the OW's mother. Any suggestions?

My name is Bobby Hansen, I am Jim's wife. Your daughter Sarah is involved in an adulterous affair with my husband. I discovered this last July when I came home to surprise him and found them in bed together. Before that, I had no idea why my marriage had become troubled. We are not legally separated or getting a divorce. We live apart because I am in the military and stationed in DC; I did not abandon my husband.

We are still married and in spite of the difficulties we face with living apart, I love him and want very much to save our marriage. I am asking if you could find it in your heart to speak to Sarah about dating a married man with a wife who loves him dearly. I would be so grateful if you could use the influence you have with your daughter to have her step out of the way. I have been praying that she would realize her sin and repent but it seems she has turned her back on the Lord by disrespecting his laws. In her defense though I know how convincing my husband can be. He has been lying to her, to both of us, since before the affair started in 2004. Even after she found out about his lies he was able to convince her to continue their relationship by convincing her to accept more lies. Now he tells me that although they still sleep together, there is no sex because it's against her religion. Does that make her any less his mistress? Does it make her sin any less in God's eyes? As long as Sarah remains involved, our marriage has no chance for reconciliation. A chance is all I am asking for, a chance to heal our marriage and our family.

I realize that if you let them know about this correspondence, they may very well try to spin this story and Jim will become very angry and vindictive. For this reason I ask that you let me speak with you first. I would rather have a face to face meeting so you can see that I am being sincere. I am staying at our home in Utica, and will be leaving on Sunday the 3rd of June. My cell phone number is 5*********** or you can reach me at home ************ (I am at your disposal as to when and where.) If you would rather I call you, please give me a time and number to call by voicemail or text message. I can assure you that I am giving you the facts. I do not wish to cause Sarah any harm or embarrassment which is why I didn't contact Thompson Homes as soon as I discovered the affair. Jim told me they would be fired on the spot. I have tried to be amiable and fair because I believe in my marriage and I truly thought Sarah would do the right thing if given time, but I realize I have been enabling them to continue what is obviously wrong and I must stop.

Sarah told me your husband hurt you in the same way which is why my counselor suggested I contact you. Having gone through the same experience you might feel more compassion for what I am going through and understand the importance of being discreet. I pray he is right.

If you feel the need for an intermediary, my Pastor is ready to help in any way he can. We can even meet in his office if you would like. Please call me.

TWBD please remove your numbers from this post!

The only thing I think you should remove is the line about "I have been praying that she would realize her sin and repent but it seems she has turned her back on the Lord by disrespecting His laws." Also, remove, "In her defense, though.." Keep the fact in that he is convincing and has been lying to the both of you since 2004.

Remove the other lines because its only going to make her mother defensive and no one wants to hear another judge their child. By pointing out the fact your husband is a liar, her mother will be able to at least 'save face' and possibly give speaking to you a chance. Just saying.

NO CONTACT WITH WH. You do not need to remind him you are coming home. He's an adult and shouldn't be coddled. If he is at the house when you arrive, tell him to leave. He most likely will. Don't get into a conversation with him or anything. Ignore him. He's a ghost. Do the exact opposite of what you normally would do when you'd see him when you got home. It will bother him.

Thanks! I can't believe I left my #. I seem to be more absentminded these days.
Have I really done the right thing? He's already angry because of the money issue and now I'm going to make him even more angrier. I know he is going to hit the roof but will it be enough to send him completely into her arms? I am definitely feeling weak. When he was calling I kept strong but now there is silence on his end. Is this normal?

He just called to tell me his dad was doing well and that he would call me later. He left a voicemail. Why does this make me so happy? I don't feel empowered, I'm just happy that he called. Is this going to be another roller coaster ride?