Hi Tatertot,

Yes, what the WS's are going through is very much like a drug, and no, you didn't deserve what happened to you, he was being thoughtless about his actions impact on you.

For me, I noticed the near instant change in my WS within only days of the A and her being found out, loving W to WS taken over by aliens, and I was in shock over the change. I have recently seen periods of time where like drugs, the W re-appears, then the WS. Yesterday was more W then normal, she actually got a little angry that I had not paid enough attention to her when the OM was, she very much regretted that she was left with the mess. But like a drug, she also had a period of time during the day when she said some things a WS would say. The A seems to be to be very much like an addict using drugs and trying to get off the drugs to return to a normal life.

I'm happy you stood by your H, and others too. I feel that BS's in at least trying, have done what they could to help the one they love to be a better person when they've hit a low point in their life and need help to get back up.

God bless,
CS

I have my highs and lows. Right now I am in a low. I have tried to analyze my thought process during all periods to see what seems to work and what doesn't.

The following help:

1) My wife says I should spy on her, follow her, etc. to prove to myself she is not cheating. I reply that I would rather divorce her. What you should not do is anything that will feed the paranoia. Why would you spy if you weren't paranoid?

2) I have been harmed. My WW is, for the most part, unapologetic. I remind myself that nowhere in the Bible does it promise us that life is fair. Or, as DD1 says, "you get what you get and you don't throw a fit".

3) I also remind myself that no matter what level of vigilence I could apply to my WW, if she wants to have an A, she will have an A.

4) It is not my job to prevent her from having another A - that is her responsibility. If she does have another A, the consequences are hers.

5) I don't have to be in love with my WW to love her.

6) viewing WW as Mother Teresa (albeit much younger and not having taken a vow of chastity).

7) detente.

All of those things help me.

What doesn't help me?

1) feeling like I have the right to an apology.

2) Wondering what she is up to when the kids and I are away.

3) viewing WW as Linda Blair.

4) telling myself that I want something better.

5) dwelling on the fact that "get" and "fit" don't actually rhyme.

6) al dente.

Hi Piojitos,

The help ones I agree. The unhelpful, here's how I see it: 1. I think you do have the right to her regretting what she did, which while not a direct apology, it is an admission that she didn't want you hurt over what she did and this helps you know she loves you, so you can invest love in her and feel confident it's not wasted love. 2. I think you should wonder what she's up to, but accept that there isn't a lot that can be done if she decides to betray you. 3. You should view your W as the most beautiful woman on earth, it's what she wants, and it's what you want too. 4. The W is better than the WS and wanting the W back, for me is better. I don't want the WS, I want the much better W.

I'm not so much disagreeing with your views, but mostly saying how I see those things. There is no one right, we're all working through horrible issues and I wish you the best in getting through them.

God bless,
CS

I have said for a very long time that no remorse is a deal breaker. It is not so much that I want the apology as I want her to show me that she knows what she did was wrong. I need this for my protection. I don't want to fall in love and go through this all over. In some respects it is much easier to stay out of love with her. On the other hand it is torture.

Do I feel that I deserve a tinge of regret from her? Yes I believe that is my right. Dwelling on it is counter-productive because it builds resentment. I am trying to put in writing the thought processes I have gone through that are NOT conducive to personal happiness in the given situation.

I go back and ask myself why WW has no remorse. If I had done that, destroyed my marriage and betrayed the one that loved me most, I would hate myself even if I did not love her. Just hurting another human being like that is unconscionable. So why would I not have any remorse? Well, for example, if I were Linda Blair...

The fact is the woman I loved could never hurt anyone. The woman I am currently married to has hurt me very badly and is apparently not too bothered by that. So the woman I am married to is not one I recognize. So yes I do try to think about why she may be this way. It is always totally unproductive. It causes problems but won't solve any. That is why I mention these things as not helpful. They should be avoided. Keep in mind that we are almost 2 years since Dday and over a year of NC. This is not a case where you can blame fog or withdrawal. Tatertot is further along than I am - 5 years. Yet the resentment is still there. I believe that if the WW does show remorse, it can go a long way toward closure. It is not that I am entitled to the apology. I just don't want to ride the roller coaster again. Last time I threw up. I would also hate to think that I am going to be in the place I am now 4 years from now. That is daunting.

Pio - I agree totally with your comments.

While worth remembering the chick in SAA (Sue) NEVER apologised, I sure could not live with that nor could most men.

Pio - I wonder - is this a cultural thing with your wife more than anything else?

I'm not sure if it is cultural or if I would ever know. I also don't think I'm the only one in this position (as you just pointed out).

As I said earlier, we begin saying we would never remain married in case of adultery. We have obviously changed that view based on the fact that we are on this site. So we now tell ourselves we will change - but how much? How much are we willing to tolerate and why?

One scenario is simply to accept things as they are and, if another A never happens, great and, if it does happen, we part ways. "Bygones". To be honest, I think that may be the correct answer. It is just a matter of forcing yourself to get in line with that way of thinking. In some cases, the BS has to do far more adjusting to remain in the marriage than the WS. In fact, the WS is not required to make any adjustments at all. Saving the M is the goal. Keeping the family in tact is the plan. The WS feels they have already sacrificed by giving up the OP. Now it is the BS's turn (from the WS's POV). I'm not saying this is always the case but I think it is not that uncommon either.

Now I could post and say that I'm satisfied with mediocrity. Actually if I were satisfied with that, I probably wouldn't be posting. So here I am coping in my way. If I were to say I was happy with mediocrity, I'm fairly certain you would have a 2x4 headed in my general direction. I'm very happy for you and what you have achieved. That is still my goal as well. I don't see how to get there unless I find a way through the resentment. Tatertot's thread intrigued me.

I don't have much time to write all that is going on in my head right now but I do have a few things I want to squeeze out.

I can't say that my H has no remorse. I do see some, but not enough to satisfy me. I need more. I believe, though, that many WSs will minimize. To minimize, they will not show their regret that we crave to move on in recovery. We did take them back, didn't we?

None of this is cultural. My H and I live in the US in one of the least populated states. We actually have more cows than people! I'm guessing it is quite different.

I hope, Pio (may I call you that?), that you find this thread intriguing because it will help you define what you do today to protect your future. Please don't hang onto mediocrity for 5 years.

Tatertot - OMG d-day was in 2002 WOW I only just noticed that.

I was referring to Pio with the cultural thing - his wife is a latino (I think)


You can count on it my friend.

BigK,

That's latinAAAAA - not latinO

Well I can see that there is no point in arguing with you. I have explained myself to you ad nauseam yet you are obviously too much of an imbecile to understand it so I shall not waste my time on you. I spit at the mere thought of you. I hope that your skin develops boils (none of which will make you rich because it vaguely resembles "Elvis") of an obscure and undiagnosable nature with possible subcutaneous lesions that prove, after countless painful examinations, to be inoperable. I loathe you and pray you amble about aimlessly in Purgatory for 1000 years uttering nothing but the name “Sheila” for no apparent reason before spending eternity to rot in He!!.

In Christlike love at all times.

Tatertot,

I find this thread intriguing because you don't serve kool aid. I have a small glimpse of what you have been going through. You have a courage I'll never comprehend. For those who cannot understand your struggle - I'm very happy for them.

OK so Gemela is not a Latino - what is she then?

Well Pio, I'll address what you've said here, but FIRST let me ask you this...Is your hamster a born again believer???
It's very important that I know this before I can proceed...

Do you feel your hamster is in a state of rebellion? Or is he not saved at all?

It just so happens that I have four new hamsters that were born 5 days ago. We are raising them Catholic. DD2 (as is her custom) performed the christening. Three survived the ordeal.

I'm certain I don't like your tone.

Gemela is latina (feminine gender). Men are latinos (masculine gender). Although Mexico City has now allowed same sex unions so that technically a "wife" can now be a latino, Gemela and I were married before this law was enacted. Gemela is definitely latina.

I think this thread has been a lifeline. I was on the brink of divorce three days ago. Yesterday and today have been really good. Someone said if you don't have expectations, you'll never suffer disappointment. Maybe that is the key. I don't expect a wonderful marriage any more. I hope to just take it as it comes. As I said before, I don't really have that bad of a deal. The issue is whether I want to be happy with the deal I have. This attitude, while possibly not being in line with NigK's belief system, seems to circumvent the catch-22 I have been plagued by.

Ket thought processes:

1) I don't need WW. If I do get a divorce some day, I'll be just fine.

2) If WW wants to have an A, she is going to. Those are her choices to make.

3) Life is not fair and nobody ever promised it would be.

4) Honor my marriage vows (all of them) as long as I am still married.

5) Don't place any expectations on WW.

The trick is not in saving the marriage - the trick is not losing your sanity in the process.

OK she's a latina already. SORRY

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, Piojitos...this thread being a lifeline. I hope it means it has helped you to come to some realizations or to maybe think differently. I started this thread because I believed I was doing something wrong and wanted someone to help me fix it. I guess I also have come to some realizations about my marriage.

This is how I'm thinking right now:

I've stated before that my H is now wonderful. He is attentive and dedicated to me and our sons. I am lucky. I AM still hurt and angry. Those feelings have minimized my love for him. I've got to work through that for my own sanity because I will not leave him. I'm not depressed or so unhappy that I cannot function day to day. I'm just there, I guess. Would I be happier if I left him to seek out my "soul mate"? Would it be worth it to my kids? I see my sons' friends with divorced parents. My youngest son's best friend's father is now married to his affair partner. They were neighbors. (gag!) That poor kid and all of his siblings and step-siblings go to the same elementary school. They never know who's picking them up or where they will be during the weekend. Everyone can feel the tension at ballgames.

Unless my H engages in another affair or drugs, I will never ever ever ever do that to my children. It's just now worth uprooting their lives. I will either learn to live with these not so perfect loving feelings, or try to fix it.

I'd like to try to fix it.

Piojitos,

You have so many unanswered questions that you are posing on another thread that seems to stem from this one. But please do not believe that "not losing your sanity" is the key. There are so many other elements. I think you "get it".

In 5 years, you don't have to be where I am today. I just sat back and accepted, thinking I was destined. I don't think it is too late for me. I'm trying. For you, start working on it now. Don't accept like I did.

My H is trying. He is meeting some of my needs. I'm having a more difficult time meeting his. A low, deep feeling that he is not deserving sits in the pit.

I record Dr. Phil every day. Last night I watched an episode of a couple plagued by past affairs and anger. The W is still so angry at her FWH that she calls him vulgar names and won't even sleep in the same bed. It's been 3 years since their last d-day. Though I am not nearly as outwardly angry with my H and I do not call him names, I found myself cheering her on.

Wow!

Hey! A question for you, Pio...Did your W ever blame you for her A? If so, do you think she still finds you at least partly responsible? (sorry, I don't know your whole story)

My H never blamed me for his affairs. But he never took full responsibility either.

So many posts...I'll have to answer each separately. Yes this thread has helped. I have been so close to divorce. I have been frustrated. I do still have a lot of anger. It seems to have emerged after all the dust settled. Probably PTSD. I also will not ruin my DDs' lives. I will leave that honor up to WW if she so chooses. My life is not that bad - it just isn't that great either. I'm not interested in other women. If WW and I split, I'm done with romance forever. I'll focus on my golf game instead. Then again maybe not. Trade one frustration for another?

If WW ever cheats again, she is out the door. No questions asked. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

So it sounds like we are somewhere along the same line of thinking. I held hope for a long time that following MB principles, we could establish a great marriage. It can still possibly happen - I just don't hope it any more. No expectations - no disappointment. To follow MB principles, I think we BOTH need to be following them. WW seems to prefer the ostrich technique.

We were watching Dr. Phil's house last night. The W admits to an A. H doesn't know yet. W confessed some very deep thoughts. I felt no anger at all. I held my WW and never said a word. I didn't even care what she was thinking. I was glad she saw it though. I'll be looking for the next episode. Can't miss disclosure.