Don't mean to hijack the thread but can you point me toward something for my WW to read which helped your WW to clear the fog?

There are some very good pieces on this sight. When I confronted my WW about her A, I read her an article from another web page. If I find it again, I will post it here. It talked about how affairs start using 7 or 8 bullets. They went something like this:

-something is missing in the marriage
-The WS finds someone of the opposite sex who begins to meet these needs.
-An EA begins
-The BS becomes suspicious
-Conflict begins in the marriage
-The WS begins to mention divorce
-The Ws moves out so they can spend more time with the OP
-Talk of divorce dies off as the WS sits on the fence trying to decide between BS and OP

The article then elaborated on each of these stages. She stopped denying her EA/PA. Now I send her articles from the internet, and she has been reading them. I think that between that and her IC, she is starting to come out of the fog.

If you try to read your WW an article or send her something to read, keep it short. It takes a while for their patients and attention span to develop in this regard.

The infidelity FAQ's on this site are a good start - they helped ME as much as my wife. SAA was also helpful to me but was torture for my wife.

Last night was better. We both got home from work at about the same time, I didn't say much. Just let her start to talk. We had a fairly relaxed evening, no talk about us. We had a couple of glasses of wine and just chilled out a little. We even managed to laugh.
This thing sure is a roller coaster!!!!

Brae you have to study. Your instinct and personal needs are of no use here.

Your wife has been temporarily mentally incapacitated by her affair. I am not making this up.As smart poster Noodle once wrote " reasoning with a WS is like throwing cotton wool balls at a crocodile".

If you want your baby back you have to study MB, apply it, and man up, mate.

This isn't instinctive, I know, but I will summarise what you have to do now:

1. Detach.
MB is a set of proven techniques that can accelerate the end of an affair, and can manage BS hurt. It is not a way to force your WW to do anything. You have to realise that whether you have a GREAT MB day or a bad one, the decision to stay or go will be made at a near-subconscious level by your WW. So concentrate on your plan A without worrying that you are making things worse. Things can't get worse than having an entitled WW banging an OM.

2. Once you have detached you can start working with the tools you HAVE.
You need to invest in yourself - recognise the habits you got into that were not productive in husbandry and change them. Also identify those emotional needs that your WW has that you can meet under the current difficult circumstances and do it.
Note that it is not the direct focus of your WW that will notice the changes for the better in you, it will be her heart's "peripheral vision". Consistency of goodness, unsung is what overcomes the WS active rewriting of history and casting you as a baddie in their movie. Its not about gestures.

3. Move on in all but fidelity.
Invest in yourself. get fit, if you already aren't. Fashion up, if you're not. Dress to impress. Smell great. Go out with friends often and make sure your WW sees how great you look and that she doesn't know exactly where you're going.

Protect your finances , assets and guardianship of yor kids.

This REALLY worked with Squid. Made the reality that she was threatening to lose me come home to roost.

BUT !! Guard against flirting or spending time wth women. You are vulnerable right now. Stay with male friends.

4. Lock up your taker UTTERLY.
Nothing is a sickening and anti-MB than a needful BS.
I actually 180'ed Squid. Relationship talk is sickening to a WS. Angering. I Stopped all non platonic touch, no kisses. ILY became "I care". This coupled with investment in myself and being as attractive as I could be drove Squid WILD.

You aren't likely to get any cuddles or lovin' for a while. Best LOCK UP that hope for now. Really.

5. Unlock the door.
I know this sounds crazy. But its only a PRETEND lock you have on the door to your marriage right now.

Tell your WW "look baby, I love you and I'll work as hard as I possibly can on building a new marriage with you if you want, but I won't force you to.I want you, but I do not need you. If you leave or continue your affair I'll be sad,but I will survive. I respect myself too much to tolerate what I perceive to be disrespect and indignity for very long, as much as I want this marriage. You need to do what you think is right."

In a nutshell, thats it.

BP Thanks for the advice. I think I am slowly starting to understand this stuff and am getting better at it.

DD was at a party then a sleepover yesterday. So we went out together for the afternoon and then for a meal last night. Had a very nice day, but when we were for the taxi home, I asked if I could kiss her, to which she agreed. Later, she told me that the kiss had made her feel uncomfortable and that she did not want to do it again. I know this is the Fog/Withdrawal and everyone keeps telling me her feelings will come back but is this always the case.

braworth, do you read anything anyone advises you ?

LOCK UP YOUR TAKER MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know this is the Fog/Withdrawal and everyone keeps telling me her feelings will come back but is this always the case.

No it is NOT always the case. And your neediness is pushing her further away from you right now. This latest situation was proof.

Your neediness to be kissed and liked and affirmed is pathetic to your WW now. You must lock up your taker for the foreseeable future if you want to get your baby back.

BP*. Yes I do listen to everything but I also get different messages from different people. You mention no touching, no kissing no ILY. But others such as BigK suggest several big hugs a day and telling the WS that you love them. I am just trying to find the best approach. I obviously now no that she is not ready to be kissed and have taken that on board

Where did bigK suggest hugs? I just read his stuff on your thread and he said to be PATIENT. He also said that crying in front of your wife would be a turn off. Well, so is neediness.

Its not fair

Its not right.

You're lonely

You're loveless

But these are the cards you have been dealt. Have you studied "surviving an affair" by Willard Harley ? That explains very well about backing off neediness during plan A if it is clearly not welcomed by the WS.

I would be interested to see where anyone advised unwelcomed intimate touch to you. Thats a real lovebuster.

And telling a WS ILY is a real no no in virtually every situation I have ever seen including my own and BigK's.

BP* Thanks again. BigK was saying this in another post to someone else, I was reading. But OK, I will back off and play hard to get. I have ordered SAA but it has not arrived yet, hopefully tomorrow.
Thanks again for your advice, as you say a lot of this is not instinctive. I know I have neglected my W, and so now I am trying to make up for that but this is obviously not the right time after last night. Also, we had a great day yesterday so I miread the situation. We are living together and getting on well, she is maintaining NC now, so trying to guage where we are is hard.

I know how you feel Brae, honestly.

Hurts doesn't it ? I never knew a hurt like it.

Its dreadful, enfeebling, destroying Trying. You can do any one of three things in response:

1. Continue to try to get comfort from your wife without marriagebuilding while choking down your pain in fear like MIKE did ( click here) . His example is a cautionary tale as to what can happen if you don't take a stand. Fearful Caution is not your friend right now. I KNOW this. You need to decide your boundaries and police them within a proper Plan A.
2. Divorce your WW while you are angry and in pain and not thinking straight. Even God ( He cares for you at this time, even if you don't care for Him) allows it for adultery HE understands how uniquely painful it is for us. But divorce doesn't remove pain. The issues still need to be worked.
3. Be a MAN and set the benchmark for righteousness and high-mindedness in a f'ked up situation. Be a hero to draw the sting from everyone affected's lives so decisions can be made while NOT in existential pain.
Braeworth, your wife has never needed you to be a MAN as much as she does right now. She is incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone, not you, God or OM.

Its your job to reestablish calm and a fertile environment for discussion. No-one else is capable of so doing.

I know exactly how you feel that everything is hopeless, and loveless and you anything you do to support your dignity will CERTAINLY push your WW away further. That is your emotional response, not fact.

You owe it to your kids ( if you have them), yourself, your wife and the vow you made before God to be strong and calm - a beacon of light and hope in a terrible situation.

Only then, once passions have subsided and calmness prevails can any of you make sensible decisions about your futures.

Whatever either of you decides permanently while hurting now will be regretted in future I guarantee it.

I have learned, and I truly believe that there is no higher state of grace for a man than to be what his family needs in troubled times, particularly when he doesn't feel capable of so being.

Be a knight not a serf. Take control of yourself and spread your calm through all your lives. Be restrained and objectived.

In that way you can be proud even if you DON'T make recovery.

Stop the (understandable) self pity and step up to the plate. Your wife needs you to save her from herself. Are you up to the challenge Braeworth ?

I'm just a bloke and I managed to do this against all the indicators. And I have never been prouder of anything I've ever done in my life. Understand that NOTHING YOU CAN DO can make you lose your wife any more than she is already lost to you.

Study MB. Address your issues. Love your wife while understanding the dynamics affecting her behaviour and thought processes right now. You wil be amazed how much more positive you will feel when you are taking affirmative, brave action against your troubles.

And it starts now with being the husband your wife doesn't currently deserve and the father any kids DO deserve.

Your calm and decency will shine like a beacon against the chaos of your WWs actions, and it WILL make an impression on the good woman that is captive beneath all her fog.

Hunker down for the long run but DEAR GOD it WILL be worth it. My life is transformed now - genuinely happy from a situation where that seemed impossible. But you have to calm down against your every instinct and man up.

Stop the passive meekness. You're entitled to it but as Dr. Phil would say "how's THAT workin' out for ya?"
Read ALL the articles on this site. Buy "Surviving an affair". Sit at the feet of Mel, Ark, WAT, Just Learning ,Pep and the other battle scarred but proud warriors who have pulled SO MANY of us from the firestorm over the years. And have faith that you can do this.

Then start to identify people in OMs life that might apply a moral pressure on him if they knew of his affair. Also have you exposed to your wifes' wider family and friends yet ? Exposure is a very effective tool. I shared your fears about exposure making things worse, but as BigK said how ON EARTH can this get worse ? Your WW is banging another man !

I don't stop by here often but If I can help you can find me.

I leave you with my question : "What would you do if you were not afraid ?"

BP*. Thanks again. I have backed off today and am trying to be stronger. We are still living together and getting on OK, apart when I start to question her, which I am getting better at not doing. As you say this is hard, I know that maybe I didn't show her how much she meant to me some times and now I feel as though I should make up for that, I just have to resist this at the moment.

Brae - I certainly never told YOU to do that - in fact I am not sure I would have ever advised anyone to do that - but who knows - situations are not the same.

What you consistently fail to understand is that this will take TIME. Let your wife make the running here. As Bob said - lock up your taker. Your wife will get through withdrawal and will start feeling better about you and your marriage but it will take maybe 8 weeks of NC for that to happen. You are at 1 of 2 weeks of NC. SNAP OUT OF IT MAN.

You have to trust Bob and I on this. We have walked in your shoes. Really.

Ok thanks guys. One thing I do have a problem with is that one of the main reasons for the A was lack of affection and attention from me. So how do I start meeting this EN now, while trying to back off or should I just leave it for now.

For now? For the next 8 weeks? You do nothing that she does not initiate. Is that clear enough?

While she is in withdrawal she will not let you meet any needs in all probability

BigK. Thanks for that, all is now clear. I thought I should be trying to meet the EN's that OM was meeting, but if I should wait to do that then fine.
I am now concentrating on avoiding conflict and talk of the A and our M, she is working hard on maitaining NC so I will just be patient.

OK Now I think you are finally getting it. Very good. If she maintains NC, I guarantee it will improve.

BigK. Thanks again, should I just concentrate on myself then and showing her I am being a better husband but just leave EN's alone for a few weeks