I will consider Steve Harley, but right now I am not sure that she would talk to him.

Deju vu......

But I thought she wanted to work on the marriage?

ML,

I think Brae's WW is still deep in the fog right now. I think his primary goal right now should be trying to meet her ENs, avoiding LBs, and policing NC very strictly until the fog starts to clear a little. His WW, like mine, doesn't know what the he11 she wants. It's up to him to guide her down the right path. However, if she breaks NC again, it's off to plan B. Don't let the door hit her in the butt on the way out.

Jim, we have already played this game before, though. A person cannot be made to feel anything against her will. Plan A was not intended to be a way of life for a cakeeating wayward. This is a person who has no intention whatsoever of staying in this marriage, much less working on it. Nothing has changed here.

ML,

I disagree. She has no intention of leaving the marriage either. My WW was the same way. As long as there is NC with OM, his situation WILL improve. My wife didn't want to work on the marriage either. She didn't think she would even have feelings for me again. Well, once she got through withdrawal, my attempts at meeting her needs started to evoke some feelings, and she became more willing to work on the marriage and meet my needs. This didn't occur until several months after NC. His WW is not FORCED to feel anything against her will. She is only forced not to have any contact w/ OM if she wants contact with Brae and her children. You know that if you follow Dr. Harley's plan and there is NC, feeling will start to come back. Plan A is not a way of life for the BS, but it is expected to last for at least 6 months after NC with OM. Just ask me, BetrayedinCal, Maybe2Late, and others. IMO getting a WW to drop her wall and start working on the marriage again is much more difficult than getting a WH to participate again. Just try 6 months of plan A after last contact with OM and see where you are then. I bet you that as long as NC is in place, things will have improved even if they aren't where you want them to be.

Disagree, Jim. He has been there, done that. She has been in contact with the OM all along intermittently and there is no reason to believe that has changed. Plan A was not intended to be a way of life; nor is it a plan that is supposed to last 6 months, but until the BS is out of energy. He was out of energy BEFORE this latest episode.

Plan A only works to end 15% of affairs, so it is unrealistic to tell this man that he should continue doing what he has been doing and will get a different result. He won't. It is not fair to lead this man to believe that Plan A is going to work some miracle. What he will get is worn down to the point of a nervous breakdown. The next step is Plan B and he is about there now.

jim, I would also point out that he has already been in Plan A for at least FOUR MONTHS. The clock does not start over at each and every contact with the OM. Contacting the OP is not a Plan A entitlement plan that entitles the wayward to a fresh 6 months; that is not how this works. He needs to make plans to go into Plan B now and get his ducks in a row.

Jim, what do you think the point of Plan A is?

If he was going to plan B, he should have gone once he found out NC was being violated. Since he chose not to, I would encourage him to stay in plan A as long as there is NC. If he detects contact again (which he needs to do a better job of policing), he should go straight to plan B.

The point of plan A is to attract the WS back to the marriage (as well as helping the BS become a better person). Plan B is to break up the affair. If there is NC, there is no affair. Whether or not NC is being violated is a separate discussion. Do I know whether or not there is contact? No. He needs to determine that. I will tell you that based on my experience, a WW can be nasty and uncooperative for several months after last contact, but things CAN change.

So, assuming there is NC (and that is my assumption), I believe he should continue to plan A for 6 months and re-evaluate his progress at that time. Now, at the same time, he need to be CERTAIN that she cannot get around his ways of enforcing his NC policy. He needs to keep a close eye on his addict WW until she gets through withdrawal. If there is ANY contact, he needs to proceed directly to plan B. However, he needs to have planted the seed with his plan A actions before he goes dark.

Also, based on my experience with a WW who has agreed to NC but is having difficulty with withdrawal:

1) If she thinks she can contact OM without being discovered, she will.

2) If she doesn't think that she can contact OM without being discovered, she won't.

This is an addict mentality and highlights the importance of being able to closely monitor and verify NC. Take every possible precaution to ensure NC, no matter how difficult or costly it is, or no matter how much your WW protests.

No Jim, the point of Plan B is not to "break up the affair," but to protect the remaining love that the BS has for his spouse and prevent cakeeating on the part of the WS.

He has already been in Plan A for FOUR MONTHS, it would be idiotic to conduct a TEN MONTH Plan A and I assure you the Harleys would never recommend any such thing. Plan A does not start over and over again based on lapses in contact. Contacting the OP does not entitle the WS to a restart of the clock, that misses the point of Plan A.

The point of Plan A is to demonstrate one's CHANGES to the WS and show her what marriage will be like if and when she comes back into the marriage. He has DONE THAT. It does not take 6 MORE months to demonstrate that point. THERE IS NO OTHER PURPOSE TO PLAN A. It was not meant to be a way of life or a holding pattern for wayward who is in LIMBO.

Plan A is not likely to stop the affair, and braeworth can see this with his own eyes. He needs to plan to go to the NEXT STEP NOW while he has some remaining energy. And 6 more months of this will ensure there is NO ENERGY LEFT. Nor is there any point to a TEN month Plan A.

She's been in contact for that 4 months Mel. I agree feelings follow actions but there won't be any actions while she is still in withdrawal.

Plan B may be required and Brae should plan for it. It would also be good for him to speak to SH alone to get a plan from the professional.

If his wife maintains NC, her feelings will return.

ML, jmwc95 and BigK.
Thanks for all your comments.
I think that as long as there is NC, I should stay in Plan A. while planning for Plan B in case NC is broke. If there is NC and IF there is NO affair, surely it would be better to be living in the same house and working on my M, even if at the moment WW is in withdrawal/fog and therefore not commited to working on the M.
She has been very low and very sad over the last couple of days which leads me to think she is maintaining NC.
Last night DD was staying at friends so we just went to a bar for a couple of drinks and had some fun with no R or A talk.

It doesn't lead me to think she is maintaining NC. This is how she acted BEFORE, braeworth. I certainly hope you are right, but what is different this time?

This is how she acted when I found out about the A for the very first time. She acted like this for the first couple of weeks during NC, she then cracked and broke NC. At the moment I think NC is being maintained, she is very tearful at times and was crying over OM, the night before last, saying she would never see him again. This is when I held her and told her she could cry on my shoulder if she needed to or talk to me. She said it was unfair to cry on my shoulder because she was missing OM

Just understand this Brae - she MIGHT crack again and break NC - what is your plan then?

Mel is VERY experienced and has seen all this before. You really would do well to pay heed to her words.

Is there any way Brae that you can maybe go away for a week in say 3-4 weeks time when you know she will be feeling vulnerable? I mean both of you AWAY and where you can keep an eye on her almost 24/7?

I know she can't see it right now but she really will get over that hump and the next ones will be easier to manage for her.

What was her means of communication with OM?

Did you speak to her HR at work? I am surprised they would not be concerned about the possibility of a sexual harassment suit.

BigK. I am aware she might crack again. We are way for a week in 3 weeks time as a family and then the following week WW and DD are away for a week with my parents.
We are at 2.5 weeks NC now and as far as I can tell she has never made it to 4 weeks so I am being very vigilant at the moment.
The exposure at work was to WW and OM's line managers. I got a letter back yesterday saying not much basically. That both had been warned as to their future conduct and while they did not condone their actions as the A had taken place away from work no further action would be taken. I really didn't expect a lot knowing the company as I do, but the main result has been the embarassment WW has felt, it is the kind a place where everyone know everything.
I did not expose to HR, I suppose I could consider it, but I don't think that they will be concerned about Sexual Harassment as they don't work at the same place and neither is the others boss.

OK. It may still be against company policy. Some companies don't like liars and cheaters working for them. I know at ML's company they get shown the door.

braeworth, how was she contacting the OM before? You need to know the HOW so you can monitor that path.

Secondly, will she send a no contact letter to the OM since she claims the affair is over?

What is she willing to do to "work on the marriage" as she claims she is prepared to do? How does she plan on getting those "feelings" back?

ML. She was contacting OM by her mobile phone. She now makes phone open to me to check.
She wrote a NC letter last Thursday, with tears streaming down her face. Which I read and posted.
She has been reading SAA, but like I suppose a lot of WW's, 2 weeks in to NC, she said it wasn't the same as her situation, I just smiled and asked her to read it again in 4 or 5 weeks, which she said she would.
She has also done the EN survey