Brae,

If you suspect pressure then she'll be feeling it intensely. If you re-read that Plan A stuff again (you didn't answer my question on that one), it tells you not to expect much back from your WW at the moment. She'll be too focussed on the pain she's experiencing and worrying that she's making a big mistake.

The purpose of Plan A is mainly to kill the affair, establish that you are a good bloke to be with and create the environment in which recovery can take place. Don't expect anything more yet. Recovery will be later provided she stays out of contact. Your job right now is to focus on what you do i.e. avoid LBs, fulfill any known ENs when she lets you and go do stuff for yourself.

I know I keep banging on about re-reading the material but it's because I just didn't get it until a couple of weeks ago and I'm not sure that you do yet. I mostly did a poor Plan A in the beginning because of this and don't want you to make the same mistake.

MW. Thanks. Yes, I have read it. Thanks for the link.
Maybe I am being a little impatient, I would just like to see some commitment from her to saving our M.

Brae,

I sympathise.

I know what it's like to want more. It's really hard. Like me you probably resent the fact that she did the dirty yet the onus appears to be on you to do everything to salvage the marriage. This way of thinking was the source of another major screw up for me. Whenever Bonkers started talking like she was entitled to the affair because of my poor behaviour, I just lost it and exploded in a fit of rage. Major sabotage of what I was trying to achieve. It's going to make our recovery even harder.

Her being there and maintaining NC is all the commitment you are going to get from her for a while. It sucks, isn't fair and makes you want to puke but there it is. If you want your M to survive, it seems you have to deal with it.

When I get frustrated by this agonizingly slow process, I try to remind myself that Bonkers is seriously ill. I also remember the vows that I made "... in sickness and in health ...". I'm not religious but I do keep my promises. This seems to defuse my frustration and gets me back to focussing on what I should be doing.

Just venting. Advice needed
Just been talking to WW. She told me that she doesn't think she wants to be married to me anymore, she feels trapped and so sad. I told her she can leave if she wants but I have no intention of being a friend.She said she will stay and try and make things work but does not feel like she can commit to saving M while she is feeling like she is. She said she can see that I am trying really hard and she feels guilty that she doesn't really feel like trying at the moment
I am hoping that this is just withdrawal/fog speak, she is 4.5 weeks in NC, but this time I am sure it is being maintained.
For the first couple of weeks since the last D-day I did quite a lot of LB and AO as the false recovery really hurt me, but I have been doing much better over the last couple of weeks.
Advice/opinions gratefully accepted

She said she feels so empty towards me, like an empty shell and does not think the feelings will ever come back. I just told her to give it time and see where we are. If they don't come back in time we will deal with it then

It sounds like withdrawl to me. Tell your WW that you can understand why she feels that way right now. And let her know that you've been talking with a number of people who've been through the same thing...what she's feeling isn't unusual at all.

Let her know that what she's feeling right now is NORMAL. But the good news is that she can and will 'get over it'...and actually probably sooner than she thinks. Remind her that you're there for her, you know that she's hurting right now, and all you want to do for now is to help her deal with what she's feeling and help her get through it right now. You don't have any other expectations from her at the moment other than to maintain NC...and you might ask her again to start attending marriage counseling. Let her know that THIS is what counselors are there for. They can help her understand why she's feeling what she's feeling, and they can show her that things CAN get better.

Right now she needs to hang in there and TRY to work on the marriage the best she can. I really recommend MC...even if its just one session that will help her see that your situation isn't unique...or hopeless.

Thanks Owl,
She has read SAA, but maybe too early into NC, as she said that it didn't really apply to her. I just gave her a knowing smile.
I might try and get her to read it again in a couple of weeks when hoepfully she is starting to get through withdrawal and the fog is starting to clear

Just tell her you understand that she feels that way, it's okay for her to feel that way, you are confident that her feelings will return, and she is worth the wait. Score some conversation and admiration points.

Did I miss the memo or is it Groundhog Day?

AGAIN??

Speaking of Groundhog Day, I can't tell you how many times during withdrawal my WW said, "I'm never having SF with you again." It was probably AT LEAST ten times she brought it up. Guess what? I won in the end. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

braeworth,

I encourage you to read the thread I have bookmarked here: SKM's Chronicles

I believe it will give you some insight into the recovery from an affair. Your W might also find it of interest so that she knows she is not alone.

By the way SKM and her H went on to start a family. I haven't seem them in quite a few years now but when last I heard they were doing very well. I hope her thoughts will offer you some insight and encourage you to hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Brae

Your w's behaviour hasn't changed at all since you first started plan A. Not during her false NC nor since then.

She has received your plan A for months now.
Either your W is still in contact or plan A isn't working on her.( it ends affairs in 15% of cases - source Dr Harley)

In either case ready a very dark plan B right now and execute it within a month unless there is a radical turnaround.

That will protect you from hurt and broken hopes,and forces your WW to face life without any part of you in it.

UTTERLY dark plan B, your W will need to move out.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.
It does feel like we have been here before. The only difference this time is that I believe that NC is in place, she does seem very low and in withdrawal.
We talked again this morning, she explained that ideally she does want to save the M but does not want to spend the rest of her life feeling low and empty. I told her that hopefully she should start to feel better soon and I would not expect her to live like that for the rest of her life and I wasn't prepared to live like that either.

BP*. It is only 4.5 weeks since NC, is this not withdrawal/fog. For the first couple of weeks after the false recovery I did a lot of LB and AO's as i was really suffering. She is really low at the moment and I am hoping as she starts to get through withdrawal things might start to change.
I am starting to plan for Plan B in case I need it.
We have a week off together next week and so just lots of family fun with no R talk

Brae

WS change through withdrawal as they attain the "f". They get meaner and nastier to begin with , then the tentatively level out and start to behave as if part of the family again...then they take steps towards rejoining the marriage emotionally.

From what you report your wife hasn't done that. She is effectively the same today as she was 2 months ago.

She MIGHT have an idiosyncratic withdrawal behaviour, true, but its likely plan A isn't working or she's in contact.

IfI were you I'd prepare a dark plan B to execute when I felt it was right, and "right" would likely be inside six weeks if theres no large recommitment from her.

You, mate, will do what you think is best.

BP*. At 4 weeks isn't it normal for her to be still deep in withdrawal. She is different to 2 months ago, at the time, while in false recovery everything was pretty much normal, or so I thought and we were getting on fine but she had no feelings for me(because she was in contact), this time things are not normal, she is very sad and cries a lot. I don't think when she is low like this that she is going to commit to anything.
I think, when I first started posting, MelodyLane told me that it would be 8+ weeks before I should expect my wifes feelings for me to start coming back.
Did Squid commit to the marriage emotionally straight away or did it take a while

In withdrawal WS CHANGE , a lot before they "have feelings" for the BS once more. Few drag their arses round for seven weeks six days then turnaround on day 56. Its a dynamic time in their hearts and emotions.

You report your wifes most recent response as almost identical ( to these eyes) as you reported months ago.

I see almost no change. No sweeping emotions, no passion,just grey misery and non-commitment.

I did not tell you to go plan B today I advised that you prepare plan B to execute in a month or so if nothing significant has improved.

Squid did not commit right away - she was in false NC for a while, as she bought a secret mobile phone to contact OM with behind my back. Her lack of behaviour change made me snoop and I found it. I know about the signs of NC violation ,and the behaviour manifestations of the phases of successful withdrawal. I see signs of NC violation in the lack of typical withdrawing behaviour. Enough to prepare a plan B and give her another 4-6 weeks.

Or do nothing if you are not prepared to plan B. Your choice, mate, I can just advise from experience and study.

BP* Thanks again. I will start to prepare for Plan B.
I thought that her sadness was an indication of NC and withdrawal. The last couple of times she had gone NC and then broken it, she had been sad for a couple of weeks and then cheered up, because she was in contact again.
This time she seems really really low, which I took as withdrawal and meaning NC was still in place

BigK. How did your wifes withdrawal go. I think you said that after about 4 weeks she still felt empty towards you but commited to SF to try and get those feelings back.

Brae - that is correct.

If NC is maintained, I see a lot of hope for you.

Brae , if you're seeing big behavioural changes that I am not comprehending from your reporting here, then great. Be very critical in your examination of these though.