Wow Mulan, thanks for that strong dose. I accept that, at least part of me is in denial mode, maybe because I have a hard time accepting that somebody you've totally trusted for over 2 decades, could have possibly betrayed you. That's why hard evidence would make this a much easier choice for me.

Let me clarify that the project and the agreement is not a scam, but between my W and OM together with actual film industry producers. It's not a full formal contract, more of a binding non-$ thing to proceed to shop it around and seek funding for their proposal. So, unlike 4 years ago, this is more than just pie-in-the-sky, and I do see evidence of real stuff this time on her laptop and with emails from the producers.

The hard part is that it was totally my W's concept and her contacts that made it happen. Although she is now convinced that OM has added so much with his brilliant ideas...blah blah. As I pointed out to her, if she had discussed this prior to his involvment, this conflict could have been avoided. However, she is still convinced that it would not have succeeded without him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

She just called me now. It's the first time I spoke to her since last night (when she reverted back to her normal non-affectionate self). She called to tell me the producers are asking them to work on some more changes and so she needs to tell them right away if she is going to withdraw from the project.

Yes, I'm afraid to say stop. She has been difficult to live with over the past years due to her volatile nature (she's been in constant therapy and occassional anti-depressents). I really am concerned that losing this will push her over some kind of edge and that I will never ever hear the end of it for as long as our M lasts. If there really was nothing going on between them, I would carry that terrible burden around forever.

Based on what I've written, you seem certain that they are in a PA. Could you please explain why? As a woman you probably have a better perspective on this.

I want to try and hold off until we can get to a couples therapist. But she insists that would be useless and she needs a response within a day or two.

THEN GIVE HER YOUR RESPONSE!!!

You KNOW what the right answer here is...it's what you came here in the first place hoping would happen!!

One of the most common themes we see around here by many newly betrayed spouses is the fear of alienating their spouses further. And for some reason, this fear seems more common in men than women...at least from what I've seen here.

The truth is, if you, as the man in your relationship, take a STAND and FIGHT for that relationship, its more likely to show you as the kind of man that she can respect...and love.

Look...if you DON'T end this relationship between her and OM, your marriage WILL fail. Without a doubt. You know this. If you fight to end it...it still MIGHT. But THAT isn't definite. The 'odds' if you will are much better if you end contact between the two of them.

Have you considered contacting the Harley's for counseling? I think your situation needs it strongly...I think that if you get solid guidance from a professional you're more likely to be willing to take action. Give that a shot...it sounds to me like you've got a VERY short time to make a choice...so you need to do so NOW.

Step up, man! It's time to FIGHT for your marriage.

I have two words for you, nowin:

Screenwriters' Guild

Is your wife a member?

Are you aware that the rules are VERY strict about producers asking for rewrites for free?

Just who are these "producers?"

Dude, your wife is being scammed.

And as for why I think it's a P/A - because no one, male or female, cuts their spouse out of their life, hides what they are doing, lies about what they are doing, and carries a picture of another person in their briefcase when all they are doing is a "business deal". Nobody needs to hide a business deal.

nowin, you have go to wake up and Man Up here or you are going to find yourself divorced before you even know what hits you.
Mulan

Mulan,

Your post is totally AWESOME!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As I started reading your post my heart started racing like I was watching the running chase scene with James Bond and that scared up black guy in Casino Real!!

Nowin,

I don't know how much plainer it can be! Listen to Mulan and MAN UP!! The only creative screen writing your WW is doing is this little drama staring her, you and OM.

IMHO

kirk

Yep, I have to agree with Krusht that your post is awesome Mulan. If only I wasn't the BH in the scenario, I could almost thrill to the drama.

OK, one last kick here at the story...I had been a bit fuzzy on details about the project (my paranoia). While the earlier project was indeed a pure film screenplay, this one is a concept/proposal for an educational TV series. So I don't think the Guild rules apply. These producers have a company that has indeed produced known legit series (verified on their website) and my W reached them through legit referals.

Again, it is the legit parts of this that makes it difficult. Yes, 4 years ago, it was clearly a fantasy project that wasn't really going anywhere. But, today they have interest from some major players.

This doesn't change a single thing, IMHO.

so what?

Tell your WW that from this day forward you respectfully request that ALL meetings involving her and OM will be with you by her side .... no alone meetings. You are now part of the development team.

Have you had a face-to-face discussion with this "jenus" ???
Call him up and "do lunch" with him. Let him know your eyes are on him. No threats, but instead, make sure he knows that you are watching him. Look tough.

My H has earned a good living for 30 years in this industry ... what you are describing does not pass the whiff test.

Nowin,

You give way too many "yah buts".

Every reply you give its the yah but this is ""for an educational TV series. So I don't think the Guild rules apply.""

And I like what Pep says, become part of the team!

Have you ever asked to see what they have done so far? As far as writing something down, I mean.

There is another bit of snooping that can be done and that is purchasing a kit that can detect semen in her underwear. Just find her knickers in the laundry basket. Kind of like a CSI dealio.

"Yah but" what if he wears a condom? Geeze I dont' know if the guy would still be wearing one after all this time.

I like Pepperband's response, too. If they get angry and refuse to allow you at their "meetings", then what more proof do you need?

nowin - what sort of screenplays, proposals, communications, etc. have you ACTUALLY SEEN from your wife and her "friend"? And yes, "Screenwriters" refers to movie screenwriters and TV screenwriters. Of course the rules apply. The SWG actually does have some real clout in Hollywood which they fought long and hard to get.

Your wife is snowing you big time. If this is such a great project, then why can't she approach these "producers" herself? What does she need a loser who never sold anything to do?? Why do the two of them have to go through the back door?

And you had better nail down what sort of "contract" she signed with OM - that whole thing stinks, too.

And look - even *if* this is a legitimate project, there is still absolutely NO reason for your wife's secrecy and lies and insistence on cutting you out of it.

Is there?

Next you'll be trying to tell us they've got an agent.

The only reason this matters is because anything she signs is going to affect you too - heavy, heavy, heavy in the pocketbook. If for no other reason, you had better find out what's really going on here because of the financial concerns (even if you can deny the fact that your wife is sleeping with this OM.)

Either your wife and her OM are snowing you big time or else your wife really has swallowed a scam and a fantasy hook, line and sinker and *thinks* she's found the back door to Hollywood success through her boyfriend. I'm telling you, it doesn't work that way.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I think all three of you are living in fantasyland - just in different neighborhoods. If somebody doesn't wake up soon here -
Mulan

Once again, thanks all for your input. And Mulan...you should be the screenwriter with your flare (maybe you could replace the OM?).

Latest developments tonight: She tells me that she sees no alternatives other than us just trying to continue and me accepting the partnership. I ask about her earlier offer to drop out if I wanted it that way. Suddenly, she is surprised that I really would even consider that option. (uh yeah, you did mention it about 6 times this weekend)

She runs through the usual litany of how she has made all the sacrifices, how I have been a huge disappointment and will never change, and therefore there is no reason for her to give up her dream for me. In other words, if push comes to shove, she will stick with the project and OM.

Her attitude swings from ferociousness to a strange calm as she tells me she is starting to get into the idea of leaving me. The whole time I keep telling her I still love her and want us to work out and that I will support her finding other projects. This doesn't sway her a bit.

Will she really go through with this? Is she going to walk out on me and our 5 kids? (The kids have been complaining again about how much mommy is screaming.)

I should be more worried than I feel right now. I think part of it is that every few hours it seems that I'm figuring out or discovering some other revelation about their relationship that kicks me hard. For instance, I see that right after she had hung up on me after finding our van outside OM’s place -- and saying she was too shocked to talk -- she called OM on her cell and talked for over an hour and then again for another hour when I had to go out that evening. Somehow, I don’t think they were talking script development.

Actually, maybe they were talking script…as in OM was feeding lines to my W. The more I think about it, the more I can recall times when she used phrases that could well have come from him.

Bottom lin: I think she is stunned that I’m holding my ground on this. But after her initial eruption, she is trying to act calm and accepting on the surface. It’s become a giant game of chicken. Who will blink first?

if she did walk
you would find yourself sitting in the catbird seat ... holding 4 aces

if she does walk
immediately file abandonment & go for full custody

nothing says "WAKE UP" faster than losing everything and waking up next to a loser without a job or a car

tomorrow you need to get every penny out of any joint account

don't spend a nickle, just put it where she can't spend it

PS

and stop having lengthy discussions with her

be stealth and put together a PLAN

a PLAN is not discussed with the enemy

and cancel all credit cards with her name on them

OK, I've now found hard evidence of at least an EA...her handwritten notes, possibly from therapy. Interestingly, they reflect my own speculation (e.g. her embrace of OM related to feelings about her own lost youth; getting back at her father, etc.).

I am now ready to go to the Plan stage. Pepperband, thanks for the quick pointers on bank accounts and CCs. Any other good sources for plan tips?

This'll be my first reply in years. I actually remember you nowin. You need to start documenting everything, especially regarding your kids. In other words, you need to start the pre-divorce planning the vast majority of men don't do.

Regarding the script, until you get an option on it, nothing is going on. Even with an option, its not likely to sell. Most likely scenario is that the script or concept dies off and you'll be supporting this loser financially once he quits his job.

You own a piece of this script as well. Might be useful if it comes to divorce. Forget proving an affair. Your wife carries around a picture of this guy. Repeat that 50 times.

Document everything. See a lawyer. You've been in denial long enough. I have a feeling nothing will change unless you file for divorce.

Quick update: she just called after her weekly session with her therapist, and tells me she is now willing to go together to see a couples therapist. It seems she is backing off her threat to close us down. It should be an interesting discussion tonight at home.

By the way, I know that I am supposed to have her agree to stop all contact with OM. However, even if she drops the project, she will still possibly see him occassionally at the office for the next 2 months.

nowin, marriage counseling is a complete waste of time when one of the partners is in an affair. MC is for RECOVERY and recovery is impossible when one is an affair. So it is a waste of time and probably will even cause harm. Most MC's are not pro-marriage and will only faciliate a divorce. They understand BUTKUS about adultery.



She should never ever see him again IF YOU WANT TO EVER RECOVER. If you DON'T want to recover and want to continue to deal with this affair for a FEW MORE YEARS, then just cut this corner AGAIN and wimp out on the no contact boundary. You already KNOW first hand the RESULT of ignoring NO CONTACT. Making the same mistake over and over again but expecting different results is INSANE.

ML, I think I see what you mean about MC’s pushing for divorce. After W had her weekly session with her therapist, she started talking about legal alternatives to separation! Essentially, she would stay in the house and we would only have a financial and domestic union. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!

I haven’t been back writing for a couple days as we have been through some very intense discussions. I have gone on a major Plan A and have been reading some long older threads here by other BHs --- and am stunned by their similarity to my sitch. (Hopethisworks must have recorded MY dialogue with MY W!)

I have not had the courage to go directly to Plan B yet. I’m still held back by the fact that I have no indisputable hard evidence of the A (I know you all think I’m the thickest guy in the world, given all the indirect evidence) and that I do have concrete proof of her and OM’s signed contract with legit exec producers for this project.

So I have been pouring on the Plan A and at the same time stated specific boundaries as suggested by some here. She must inform me of her whereabouts at all times, she can only meet with OM in a highly public setting, and she is not to ever let OM into our cars again. Her reaction to these conditions has been less that promising. It has ranged from ranting on about how I’m treating her like a child or I’m a prison warden, to arguing how it can never work, to explaining why it is overly restrictive.

We had our first attempt at it on Wednesday when they had to go to a meeting with the producers downtown. She thought she was being transparent by calling me about it before and after, and telling me anything I wanted to know about the meeting. However, one of my boundaries was broken when she insisted on giving OM a ride both ways …since he has no car.

She argued that it was just foolish to prevent this, as a car is a public place and anyways it would look so silly for them to travel separately from the same place to the meeting. I, of course pointed out that a car is hardly public (4 years ago they used to park for hours at night); and what would OM do if she was not available to chauffer him to the meeting?

I now know I was right because of a clear sign from heaven: She got a pricy parking ticket for the first time!

But this battle is ongoing as today is again Friday, her day off from her day job, where she has been disappearing to unknown places to work on the project each week…with her cellphone turned off. (When I finally realized the potential implications of this pattern only a week ago, I felt sick to my stomach…and that is why I followed her. )

Last night and this morning I was very Plan A and she responded positively. However, whenever the issue of today’s schedule came up…the tension rose as she would become all upset at the thought that I would be “spying” on her. She kept saying that it would become impossible for her to continue working under these conditions. But she realizes the alternatives are NC or leaving…neither which appeals to her.

By the time I left this morning, she seemed resigned to the idea that she would report to me in advance.

for the record, this is NOT plan A



unless the intensity was pleasurable

Get a voice activated digital recorder, and get it hidden in her car ASAP. There's more info on the "spying 101" thread about what you should look for in one, but you'll want one that has a good battery life, and a remote microphone. You can hide it under the dash or under her seat and extend the microphone up (one poster here had the mic attached under the steering column.

You need to get a handle on what's going on here.