hey Frog... since you are on a thread that has Bible int he title... your being "insulted" has no credibility. These people are discussing their beliefs... if you don't like the thread... is there any harm to you or others to not read it???? It says right on the wrapper what's inside... you are choosing to read here and then "acting" insulted just so you can dog BK. Sorry, but you don't have a leg to stand on when debating with BK...

Frog,

If you dont want to discuss marriage as it pertains to God, the Bible, etc...you dont have to. It is called dont click on this thread! MEDC is absolutely correct.

Medc,

First I don't understand your Comment about Dogging BK I see he made a comment that I was following him around. You placed your Faith in what BK said as the truth. LOL.

I may have posted on the same thread as him. I am almost sure I have based on his comments. Trust me though BK is not an important person in my Life. LOL. Do not believe his paranoia.

Second this site is about Rebuilding or Building Marriages per a certain set of rules.

I may be wrong but I do not see Dr Harley marketing his program, his books, or this website as a "Christian" website.

It can be very instulting to some to come to a nondenominationl website, log into the GQII section to see the moral majority discussing the validity of marriages per the bible. Do not kid yourself into thinking that NON Christians do not know that Christians think we are all damned and only their marriages truly exist in the eyes of god. This could Alienate Jewish People, Hindu People etc.

I mean from what Big K wrote and that is what was offensive to me is that only believers are truly married in the eye's of god.

That is what insulted me. I like a good read. I see some of the points made here. I was interested. But the unbeliever stuff just made me laugh a little.

Then MM you made the comment that all marriages even civil are marriages in the eyes of god.

I was told by the Catholic Church that my Marriage is NOT recognized in the eyes of god because I was not married in their church.

So maybe the Catholic Church is different but that is what I was told. I dont' even need to get my Marriage annuled. LOL.

Another fool heard from.

MM...

Mr. W and I were just talking about this and we are curious and confused...If the WS is the one to file and the BS "does not want it", but signs the papers(agreeing to the end of the marriage), is that not the same as "putting away" the WS thereby breaking the covenant and allowing the BS to remarry without it being adultery? Or are you saying that anytime that the WS is the one to file then the BS is forever condemned to a life alone lest they commit adultery? If so, WOW that seems all kinda wrong and will be very near impossible for me to wrap my head around...

Mrs. W

P.S. FROG, DUDE, what's the deal wit'cha? BK and MM are both personal friends of myself and Mr. W, they are both very nice folks..."Lighten Up Francis"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ok so far I have not insulted anyone. LOL.

I just have a differing opinion on the properness of this thread. On this site.

Every once in a while I do get a hair up my [censored] and speak up. LOL

I researched and I did post behind BK on another thread. LOL.

The comment I made to MM is that I was personally told by the Catholic Church, a priest of ST. Paul here in So Cal that my Marriage is not recognized by god. So I had a differing opinion on Civil Marriages. If I was married by an American Catholic Priest and my Marriage wasn't recognized I doubt it would be if I was married by a Judge.

I have nothing personal agains MM. or Big K or even Medc,

The fool comment was not appreciated. LOL.

I am christian by the way so if it is a little insulting or inflamatory to me imagine if I werent' Christian.

I of course may be wrong but I just think If I weren't Christian this entire thread would be insulted.

The fact that it exists and the context if you are not chrisian is apparent.

I guess what I am trying to say in a round of about long winded way is, People of different beliefs come here a Thread name like this could drive a NON Christian Away.

I would hate to see that.

Edited to add

The Catholic Church is different.

And as was said by MEDC, this thread is in keeping with the rules of the site and with what we are about here. Some people are Christians and come here for help. The Harley principles are very much in line with Scripture. Since we wanted to talk about specific Scripture related issues, I created this thread. Someone who isnt interested in reading this, shouldnt click on it. If there was a thread here that said "Marriage, Divorce and the Koran"...I just wouldnt open it.

But then again, that may be just me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Nah! Not condemned to a life like that. Look, it might be easier if folks back away from this a little bit and look at it from afar. Get the whole picture. What is Jesus about? Love, reconciliation, redemption, right? Does He turn ANYONE away that is earnestly seeking Him? Are there some sins that we can commit that He just looks at us and says "No way...not getting near you!"???

Of course not. So, knowing Jesus' nature...and what Scripture says throughout, we can apply that to this. In your example, God really tells the BS not to sign. If I didnt want to end my marriage, I would have never signed the final decree. Never.

Remember, that would be my decision to stay in the marriage...to uphold my end of it, and to keep the marriage covenant in tact. It would be my right to do so.

You see, a WS has NO RIGHT to cheat. They have NO RIGHT to end the marriage. They have NO RIGHT to divorce! They do all of these things illegitimately.

The BS can stay legitimately, or they can divorce legitimately. A WS does NOT get a choice. Not in God's eyes.

This is why I went to my church and went thru the process I outlined above. My wife was eventually declared spiritually dead, and I was free to divorce and remarry if I wanted.

So, in your example...if the BS wants to stick with the marriage...then yes...the WS is stuck in continual adultery...should divorce their current spouse and return to the legitimate marriage.

But, if the WS leaves...and the believer goes thru the process (as outlined in Matthew) and then decides to divorce, then the covenant is broken...it no longer applies. Then the BS is free to remarry. ANd incidentally, so is the WS because the covenant no longer exists. Does that mean all of the consequences for the WS will be wiped clean? Hardly! If that WS is still unrepentent (but a Christian), then count on a continual world of hurt being brought by the Father upon them until they see the error of their ways.

Hope that explains it!

"If you call me Francis again, I'll kill ya!"

"LOL" The attempt to cover up by appealing to humor is falling flat.




ahhhh...seems like the slippery slope is gaining momentum.




Lot's of people claim to be Christians. Claiming the title is not the same thing as being a Christian.

But since you bring it up, why do you think you are Christian and why do you think that the Bible is not God's Word?

You can have a differing opinion. That is fine. But in this case, it would be wrong because this thread is in keeping with the rules and the spirit of this website.

Again, that is what the Catholic Church says. It doesnt necessarily mean it is Biblical (please...I dont want to start the Catholic-Protestant war again!!). The priest is quoting Catholic doctrine...not Biblical truth. The Bible says something different.

And I have nothign against you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Then they should move on. It is that simple.

So what?

I doubt that would EVER happen! No one is THAT sensitive. No one is required to read anything on here, let alone this thread. And if they were to leave because of this thread, they have bigger problems!

LOL...The "Francis" was for da Frogster! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

[OT]

Hey MM...There is another poster here, "howmuchmore", that is using you for inspiration...a wonderful thing to be sure...His wife is on her fourth affair though...He's been reading your old stuff, but I think he could REALLY benefit from your perspective as it pertains to his situation...If you have the time you might want to check it out...Here's the LINK...

[/OT]

Mrs. W

MM. Yes I agree. Still Christianity though right?


I see you registered on 6/18/02, I am sure you like I lurked for a while. Lets say you found this site, then found the message board then read, Marriage Divorce and the Koran, you may think, Well this isn't the board for me.

Just a possiblity. I am sure it would turn some off. That is my point on that.

Forever and MEDC.

What has always struck me about religion as perplexing is the intolerance of some within that religion to a desenting opinion.

MEDC you basically called me a fool because I didn't agree?

I can assure you I am not a fool.

Foreverhers.

I am trying to make light of a situation that is quite insulting to be honest. Being called a fool is probably not funny but I see some people hold their beliefs so High that it is ok to pass judgement on others.


Maybe you can clarify this statement because I don't understand it.


I agree with you on that whole heartedly

Because my definition seems to be different then yours. I think there is something in the bible about judging others. Could be wrong but until the day I am told to Answer to FH about my faith I will withold any further comment.
God never took pen to paper last I checked. I do not see one book in the bible written by Jesus Christ. Some of the books in the bible were written well in advance of Jesus and some well after his death.

Some attributed to people who didn't even write it. There are unknown authors in some portions.

How can you be so steadfast to beleive the word of someone that isn't identified.


There was a movie and when they were transcribing the bible one of the Priests was all uset he said "it says celebrate not celebate.

MM
Isn't religion the cause o fmost wars? That is what really makes me quetsion a lot. People killing people in the Name of God.

I don't think it is judging the person at all. But we are called by Jesus to exercise judgement of behaviour.


Actually NO he didn't. Jesus never mentioned re-marriage at all, only divorce.


What about the scripture in 1CO 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

Well thank you MM for stating your opinion is better than everyone else's. That's a really nice limb to be out on.

WOW - and yet I never said that - nor do I believe that.

I would actually be very worried MM if my "special" interpretation and revelation of scripture was at odds with the words of the early church fathers and scholars over the last 2000 years.

Big K you are right you didn't I appologize.

The comment that bothered me was this
I will leave it at that.


Found this quote on a The weblink I provided before.

MM the lord told me today that spongebob squarepants is an apostle, so it must be true.

Thanks for the apology. I was merely saying that according to the bible a believer should marry another believer. That's all.


Thanks for that one. There are indeed lots of interpretations and opinions. As I say, I am weighing all this up in my mind in the absense of clear instruction from scripture.

At the end of the day we all have to be persuaded in our own mind about these matters. In fact, none of these issues have a direct bearing on my life or situation so I have no vested interest in any position being right.