Many people recover their marriages and have the FWS run back into the FBS's arms begging forgiveness and expressing eternal love. A small but significant percentage (okay - maybe only me but I am significant) have a FBS who never expresses regret. Initially we blame this on fog / withdrawal. But what happens when the fog lifts and the withdrawal is long past?

I, as a BS, always wanted remorse from my WW and believed (with the help of many MB posters) that some day I would get it. I did not want remorse simply to feel "holier than thou". Remorse is part and parcel to acknowledging a wrong behavior, validating the pain and suffering of the BS and an indication that there will be a behavior modification (i.e. avoid another affair). I have documented well my reasoning on this subject in the TKO thread.

What happens when WS gives up the A, stays in the M and the relationship improves but WS never shows remorse? In my case, it makes me angry because it hurts my self-esteem. I now realize that I can't expect her to show remorse because if I do (and she doesn't), our M will end before long.

The A made me feel less than nothing. It totally destroyed my self-esteem. Now I have that back. Since WW refuses to have any remorse, it chips away at that self-esteem. It is like she still feels entitled to have complete disregard and disdain for my feelings. She is "above" me. I am insignificant in comparison to her. I don't mean to make her sound evil. She is not. That is just how she makes me feel at times.

I am interested to get POV's from others who have gotten back with their spouse after the A, after time enough to eliminate withdrawal from the equation, where the WS showed no visible signs of remorse. I would like to know how other BS's cope with this and also find out whether remorse is important to them or not for their personal healing and marital recovery. Or if you happen to be a FWS who is in the M but showed no remorse even after withdrawal, I would like to know why you feel you should not be remorseful toward your FBS for the A.

I do have a reason for asking BTW. I recognize that some FWS may BE remorseful but not want to SHOW it. I would like to know why and also how you felt that this helped your recovery.

I can't imagine how I would have coped without heartfelt remorse and regret.

well....er....yes.

That is sort of the point. I am curious how others have coped / are coping or, if they couldn't cope, was this the deal-breaker that led to divorce?

I think to successfully recover the M (I say think because I am in no position to know for sure), the BS must heal. I believe remorse is an acknowledgment of the BS's feelings and show that the WS will work to protect those feelings in the future. It is hard for me to reconnect when I feel like my WS would take on another affair without giving me a second thought. I'm not saying she is going to or even likely to. I am just saying I don't feel that my WS is making me feel particularly safe.

I have told you before Pio that chick Sue in SAA never apologised.

Harley's advice if I recall correctly was to refocus on meeting needs and avoiding love-busters.

My wife has expressed on a number of occasions she is so greatful I fought for her and our marriage.

It is a process and it didn't happen overnight. Takes time Pio - and we were in real recovery before it happened.

Yes you did mention that. To paraphrase, Harley's advise is to swallow your pride. It is never easy to heal yourself and especially when it is a knife wound in the back.

There is a problem with respect. If you do "refocus", you lose a little bit of respect in yourself. You also lose a lot of respect for the FWS. I think that makes it harder to reestablish love (although not impossible).

Am I the only one who thinks this way? Can Greg post?

My experience is fairly limited, but after my WS supposedly ended the A with OP, she didn't show remorse as well, like what I was expecting her to. Found out later than NC was never established and she was still seeing the OP and the A was still ongoing.

My WW was in the bathroom last night with the water running. Cheaters happened to be on Reality TV. Since WW couldn't hear it, I left it on. The WW was about to jump off a roof. Tommy talked her down. BH comes up to the roof and Dday + 20 minutes and WW is begging his forgiveness.

BTW, don't ever watch Cheaters.

Pio - that is fiction. I am sure some WW's are like that but not many I know of.

Why would I have any desire to remain married to an unremorsefull adulterer?

What possible benefit is there to me in doing that?

Maybe you have not received remorse because you have not required it?

I ask sincerely...who would volunteer to look at their face in the mirror when the reflection is reeeeeally unattractive? Better to stay entitled if you can don't you think?

Pio,

My WH didn't show any remorse after his first affair. I thought we were in recovery, I guess I was wrong... remorse was something I also needed for me to heal completely.

FF to now he is hot and heavy in his second affair and we are divorcing. I did intiate the divorce and he counterfiled. I now would like to stop the divorce..he doesn't. He also is not showing any remorse now for what he is doing to his family.

Are you and your W in MC?

Still

Pio,

Some people are too proud to admit remorse. It is a character flaw. I'm sure she does feel remorse, but is unable/unwilling to express it. If it is something you need, maybe you should go to MC or get IC. My WW has never really had a heartfelt apology with true contrition, but when I did bring it up she said, "I said I'm sorry, can we just forget about it." Some people deal with their guilt by trying to forget about their actions instead of confession and reconciliation.

I would advise sharing your feelings with your FWW (radical honesty) in a calm, non-confrontational way to talk about the subject. Make it about you, not her.

Pio,

I'm sorry, I can't remember what your beliefs are. I do know that my WH (previous, and occasional) lack of remorse and subsequent treatment of me, led me to a very deep faith. I watched "The Passion" last year during Lent. Many seeds were planted, but the main one is this. The pain we experience during our mortal lives is inconsequential; it's how we handle that pain that matters most. If you're a believer, it will make a huge difference into eternity. If you're not, it will make a huge difference in how you view yourself (and others).

Though, the Christ was tortured, murdered, and literally went through ****** for you (and me), he still loved us. He is always there to hold you, will never betray, and has proven that. He is the ultimate Soulmate. Your wife may not be capable of remorse at this point, have faith, someday she'll wake up. She may not be strong enough to face herself yet...be tender with her.

I apologize if this sounds preachy, I'm not very good at this, but it is how I cope and move beyond reactive thinking.

Ps
Thanks for all your help and encouragement through the past year.

That is exactly the point. When this all begins, there is no remorse because WW is in fog or withdrawal. We believe remorse will come when the WW comes to her senses. All sounds good until it doesn't happen.

But now I'm in a marriage that is reasonable. WW is almost transparent. I don't believe she is still in the A. But she is apparently unrepentant. That is why I believe I am on the brink of divorce. Unfortunately I'm now not in as nearly a good a position as I was right after Dday. 20-20 hindsight, I wish I had simply divorced.

I do not want to remain married to someone who could do what she did and not feel the slightest bit sorry about it. I don't even like people like that. So what to do?

People like BigK say it will come. Someday.

OTOH maybe WW is repentant but doesn't want me to see her that way. Maybe shame wants to make her hide those feelings from me. We might be like the blind men trying to identify the elephant.

I simply don't know. I do know that lack of remorse engenders resentment. I wonder how Greg dealt with that.

Yes I have required remorse. I have told WW on many occasions that it bothers me she is not sorry. She says she has tried to say she is sorry inthe past but I said I didn't believe her. It's true. She did say it. It's true. I didn't believe her. Of course this is back when I was finding hidden cellphones and love scrapbooks. So sue me.

No we are not currently in MC. WW told me to go to IC so I could get help with my problem. She views it as all my problem. She believes she has done her part.

I think I am cross posting. jmw. I think maybe I answered your question. I do agree. Maybe it is a personal issue with WW. I don't know. I have tried to discuss it in terms of my feelings. WW's response was to get angry. She LBed me.

BIO,

I don't disagree with what you say. I do believe that whether someone is a believer or not is not entirely germane. I believe that remorse for wrongdoing is in our human nature for whatever reason. I believe that NOT being remorseful wrongdoing is a learned or adapted behavior.

I don't want this issue to be about religion and I am trying to avoid that facet. I did say that I don't expect life to be fair which is generally derived from the points you have mentioned. That's as far into religion as I will go on this thread.

So what was it that stopped you from divorcing then?

Pio,

Your post is incredibly timely for me. Lack of real remorse keeps me here, lurking, stuck in affair land, even though the EA has long been over. I ask myself, WHY don't I "just get over it?" like he requests. Like you, I needed to see contrition, humbleness and an absolute horror over what he did. I have asked myself A LOT, is there something wrong with me that I just don't "get over it".

I know, absolutely that the affair is over. I have no worries there, but I do keep my spy gear in place, just for reassurance. Nothing. No contact, no reason to doubt.

I just wanted and needed him to BE SORRY. To acknowledge the pain of what he did, HIS actions brought me to my knees. That I too felt the knife in my back. Destroyed. I want him to KNOW what he did. He just wants to "move on", "get over it" and is extremely annoyed that I "choose to live in the past".

I have not mentioned it in at least 6 months until this past weekend. Again, I get the rolling eyes, "Oh, God, here you go again" from him. I do know that he is sorry but I think he is more embarassed that he got caught due to my exposure.

I also continue to contemplate divorce, at a very serious level. I do not respect him. And it is not so much about the affair itself, it is about how he continues to ignore my pain. It is about character.

heh...

You could shoot him in the back and ask him haughtily and with much derision how long 'till he stops living in the past and get's over it.

Be sure to remind him how unattractive whining and crying is also.

In what time context do you ask the question? I didn't divorce her because I loved her with my life. I don't divorce her because we have two daughters who would be devastated. I do still love her but I'm not in love with her. I don't respect her. It is hard to want to fall in love with her because she isn't "safe". What are my motivations? I don't know. I will try to go for IC.

To an extent, my WW is right - this is my problem. What I am questioning at the moment is whether or not it is justified. I may also be asking the wrong crowd (no offense intended) because all of us BS's believe we have rights that we share in common. I'm not certain I believe that premise any longer. Maybe it just is what it is. Don't know.

Clearly this remose or lack thereof is the most pervasive thought in my mind these last few months. Maybe I do simply have to get over it.

Maybe we BS's who get no remorse derive respect from the fact that we are willing to suffer it. That is not my general nature so it is not a big motivator for me.