Okay, I'm listening...I hear NO...I hear listen...I'm have no intentions of making any decisions...

I remove to go back to where we were...I will not give up my friends, my recovery program, my alone time...

Regardless of what he says I'm not postponing this court date...what the judge says is what the judge says...the only think is the house is really option for me...I could care less...I don't like the neighbors, I don't like the house, I don't like some of the moments...

I figured I have nine months till this D is over anyway...that should be suffient time to see where his head is...no hurry...

LA, didn't you ask me once "what's a hurry ever got you?"

Not clarity...that's what it got me...

It will be difficult to not want to jump into things, but I have learned what jumping off of cliffs has gotten me...extreme heartache...

I haven't heard from him yet...course, I'm not holding my breathe...I just got back from the track...four miles today...I did three and decided that I needed new running/walking shoes...go I went get some and while I was right there, I went brought the Godess wear...

Then, I had to try out the new shoes, so I went back for a mile...I've cut my time down from 20minutes a mile to 14 minutes! How awesome is that?

Mimi, didn't you tell me that you and your FWH went through some DV for a moment there...you had mentioned that it was normal at that stage...reason I ask is because this was something that started after D-day and I was wondering if it was similiar...

THere was nothing prior to d-day except 14 years ago with his XGF...he's gotten into one fight in our time together and that was protecting me and F in 98...

Yesterday I was talking with a friend from our group b/c my spon. is out of town and I think that my judgement could have been clouded by my emotions at the time...

Great thing is I have this third party view right now, I'm not where I was, hence I'm not rushing...healing takes time...

Okay, listen...cool...

WEll, just heard from STBX, on his way back to town...should be here in about 30 minutes...


I'm a little jumpy inside...reviewing in my head the exact problems on the M...

Reviewing our history in my head...

Well, I just got out of the shower, have the Godess wear on...have to finish gathering myself together...

Yeah, I'm nervous...it's been a good day...I'm going to have to write tonight I can see it...come to some conculsions...

Never let them see you sweat huh? Is that my goal for the night?

Rin,

I STRONGLY suggest that you listen to what he is offering and that you say, "I will consider it and let you know what I think in 24 hours." Here's why: it is highly likely that he will either try a maneuver to make you look bad -OR- that he will push buttons -OR- that on the surface it might sound good until you stop to think about it.... etc.

Therefore, if he REQUESTS something, tell him you'll consider it. If it sounds potentially good, you can even say, 'That sounds potentially good.' BUT DON'T AGREE TO ANYTHING TODAY. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING! Just be civil, agree to consider it, and then GET OUTTA THERE!

I highly doubt he is considering reconciliation. I suspect it is much more "Cover Your A$$" mode and he's trying to control the situation where a judge will order him what to do...last ditch effort to re-engage you and get you to do it HIS way. So be cautious and guard your heart.

LOVE YOU! Let us know how it goes!!

Your protective mama bee,



CJ

Rin,

Deep breaths! You are ready for this. The New Goddess is prepared

Don't let them see you sweat?

No problem for you! Remember, you have Your Secret - strong enough for a man but made for a woman! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, stick to your truth and your boundaries.

You will do great!

I will be praying and waiting to hear from you!

OKay, I hear you all...thanks CJ...appreciate the advice...I can do that, make no agreements...

OKay, Bugs, I got the deep breathing thing going...mam's lookin hot...new clothes, new shoes...repainted the toes! i'm good to go...of course, ALL of that stuff is for me to kinda say "In your face!"

Secret...should I get him some? LMAO

Thanks... see you all later...I'm getting out of the house for some me time and then we'll see what happens later...

this should be interesting

My suggestion w/b listen and RB. Good timing for it.

Example:

WS: I didn't invest 14 years for nuthin'

BS: So true, right now I'd like to have a refund but your value has been depleting so it might be best to cash you in right now!

WS: What? You want ME to pay YOU? Why?

BS: Yes. Well let me ask you. What monetary value would you put on our family let's say to sell us up the creek?

WS: What?

BS: Let me clarify..... if you were asked to put a monetary value on your family which would then relinquish your rights to your family....what amount would you sell us for? 10K, 100K, 1mil, 10mil, 100mil, etc.....?

WS: That's ridiculous (now how he responds will be a clue on how to proceed, so I will give various optional responses).


OPTION 1:

WS: That's ridiculous but if I had to put an amount it w/b in the neighborhood of 10 mil.

Note: You will be disappointed at any # he will give so here's how to work with it and NOT show your disappointment.

BS: 10 mil.... hm... ok, 10 mil.... go get me the 10 mil.

(assume at this point you get your 10 mil....take it and run but make sure it's NOT part of the D agreement so you don't have to give it back.) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


OPTION 2:

Starts out the same as option 1 but continues with:

WS: But I don't have that kind of $$.

BS: Yea but you said we were worth 10mil, not 50 or 100 mil....you want to give us a lower value? What's the number?

NOTE: Play with the numbers until he says: UNCLE!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> (just kidding).

WS: No.

BS: You want me to give you a break?

WS: (anxious tone)....YES!

BS: Ok. Make it 9 mil. That's a 10% break. I believe I am being quite generous, doncha think?

WS: But I can't get that kind of $$

NOTE: Now this is in your ball court, you can play with the numbers..... for me I went from 1 mil to $87K (amount OW refied her house. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ).

BS: Well, I may be able t/b a bit flexible, howz about.... $__________. Make sure it is greater than your lowest bottom $.

WS: I can't even make that amount.

BS: WHAT!?!?!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> (dramatic effect is good - you may get an oscar for this one - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ). You said we were worth X but you can't even afford to give us.... Y? What kind of person are you?

WS: Well I want to.

BS: Great...try paying bills on an 'I want to amount'. Think the utility, credit card and mortgage companies will understand?

Ws: No. I don't want to talk about this anymore. It is making me ill.

BS: Welcome to my world. Your babbling is making me ill.
While it is good to hear we are worth a lot of $$, I am disappointed it has a cap on the value of our family....but the fact that you can't even afford to buy our release from your WS hold, makes me even more sick. Unfortunately pucking doesn't help. You have betrayed your family and you want to hang us out to dry for free? What a man.

You have to leave now because talking with you at this time is making me quite ill. Goodbye.



OPTION 3:

WS: That's ridiculous, my family is priceless.

BS: Priceless? Well that's good news. Now we have a place to start. Priceless. Well that's sounds good but do you have these 'priceless resources'? We need to be paid. You have already agreed to sell us out.

Ws: What? I don't have that kind of $$$$$$.

BS: Oh, I thought you and the OW had plans. Isn't she rich enough to support your sellout? After all you both already lost the shirt off your back and her skirt. Come on....now's the time to pay for your escapade. Do you want to put a fixed $ for this 'priceless family', or shall I?

WS: You do it.

BS: Ok, well since this will be a life long payout....and we ARE priceless....let's start with a cool 100mil. A lot less than priceless, right?

Ws: I can't afford that.

BS: OW can't either?

WS: No, do you expect me to rob a bank?

BS: Is that your only option? Hm... if that's what you need to do..... we won't be able to visit you in jail, so if you get caught, how will you get us OUR $$$$?

Ws: I don't know.

BS: Geeze WS, you sell your family and now you don't want to pay. This isn't the man I married.... he was responsible in the past. Who are you? (wide eyes for special effects - another oscar moment). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ws: I don't know. This is making me ill.

BS: Yea, me too. Still we have a lot to cover. So hold onto your pucking and let's hurry up and settle this issue. I've got my bills to pay and our family's future to map out.

So you can't make 100mil....yet your family is still priceless. Give me a reasonable $$ to work with.

WS: I can't.... nothing w/b good enough.

BS: That's true but right now you aren't good enough yet the bills still have to be paid and our children's future still has to be planned. So cough up a reasonable $$$$.

Ws: Can't. I feel real sick.

BS: Yea, me to. Try some deep breathing cleansing exercises. That's what I do when you make me sick. Oh...also a good idea to have a leak proof bag or bowl near by. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So what's the number?

WS: Is that all you can think of? Can't you see I'm sick? Don't you care how I am feeling?

BS: I care but caring for you isn't helping the bills or future planning. You wouldn't be sick if you cared for us, so I am not sure how to help you except to tell you to keep a barf bag handy. Only you can heal your current malady.

So back to the number..... hm... you want me to give you a break?

WS: Yes.

BS: 10mil. That's 10% break. Being quite generous considering the amount of hurt and pain is still the same.

Ws: No can do.

BS:. You are getting quite disappointing...thought if you were going to replace your family, the least you could do is step up in the $$ environment and be able to sell us out at a rate close to our real value. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ws: Well I can't and you know it.

BS: Yea....I probably do and now that is more than disappointing..... you now have my anger that you now only lost your pants but you are willing to abandon your family for waaay less than our priceless value. What kind of man are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> (dramatic effect here - another oscar moment). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ws: Gotta go. Starting to puke.

BS: Ok, well when you stop puking, call me back with the number. Gotta know when it's coming and which bills to pay off 1st. Bye.

*********************************

Not sure if I told you this but most of the above convos happened in my home. Yep.....made him want to puke.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and I don't regret it. Puking helps remove the WS' venom. It also makes the A take a turn for the worse. With this convo, the OW no longer had the status of being a WS savior. She wasn't that rich broad who was going to end his misery like she promised in an e-mail to ME.

Yep, I learned to use their own stuff against them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps.

L.

Rin, I just got to reading your post now and you may already be meeting with WH, but if you are reading I would suggest doing what the others have stated.

Stay very GUARDED and LISTEN. Don't offer anything and committ to anything either. You don't know what his motive is so stay on defense and expect the worst that way you will protect yourself.

When I met with my WW several weeks ago she still exhibited a wayward attitude and was very silent. At the end of it all I said good night and went back to Plan B.

You will KNOW when your it's your H and not your WH.

good luck.
HTW

HI Orchid...what a night...I've been fighting this computer and the internet for connection...

HTW- YOU, dear sir, are very right...I did not see WH tonight...I did hear some changes, positive changes for him, and that good, I'm glad that he's doing well...he's struggling with the bills some but I think that as time passes that he'll get a better handle on it...THIS is something NEW for him...

There were other things I heard also...I hear no OW...I heard a lot of hanging out with our friends...

Now, for the post that I had typed earlier, then had to write because of all the trouble I had with this thing...

Here goes:

WEll, as 4 2nite's events, I don't think that we could get any slower than the pace that we used 2nite...we just practiced being...

I had a meeting @6, and said that I would call him after I got out, the kids were in teh tub when I talked to him about 5:40...and they had no ate yet...So, we planned to go to dinner...kids wanted Burger King or McDonald's, and STBX said no, he would prefer someplace better...

Since the kids were present, we didn't discuss anything related to "us"...we talked about the kids, the kids shared what they did the weekend...STBX told me about the place he took them...mentioned work, and some of the things that he had been doing...

I talked about the kids, our trip to Avery Island, the kids didn't mention this to him, but he loked with them about mom telling on them with the picture that I sent...I talked about the running and walking I had been doing, nothing serios...

COme to think about it, it was a feeling each other out session...we had made it so unsafe for each other over the past year...I have to admit to a horrible Plan A in my eyes...

Since we didn't talk there, we went for coffee, this gave us some room from the kids...lite conversation, bills, nothing about court...

The only thing that was mentioned about us was the two questions that I wanted to ask...Did he still want to be Med to me?...And, could he live from this day forward?...He said that we would have to COMPLETELY start over...

I said well, I'm not ready to live together, and he agreed...

That's it, back to lite conversation...

For me, I feel good about our interaction, we were civil, able to "talk"...no blame...pleasant and respectful...

I didn't ask any questions, and he didn't either...

I'm happy with the pace, not in a hurry, didn't care to resolve ANYTHING (I have to stress this!)...it was just a matter of being...

2 hours, in public...he wouldn't let me pay for dinner, but I did leave the tip, and I wouldn't allow him to pay for the coffee...

To top off the night, I was at teh edge of the road and the person, A handsome yound man bumped into my car...I got out, no damage, he asked if everything was okay, I said yes, and asked that he be more careful in the future, squeezing his arm...STBX was right behind him watching...which was less than a minute...on the way back to my car, the driver who bumped me called out to me something about being sexy...

I pretended not to hear...got in the car and drove off...

I thought that was a perfect ending to the night...and the GODDESS WEAR worked!!! For me that is, I caught someone else's attention, that was great for me...

I was also very friendly with the girl behind the counter at the coffee place, chatting away with her while STBX just stood there...he wasn't even sure what to order so I had to order the reg. coffee for him...

He was so out of place...poor thing...being this is one of my hang outs...

I liked the way things were...no touching...no invasion of space...I don't have ANY expectations for the future...he said if you need me you know how to get in touch with me after we put the kids in the car...I said that works both ways...

Oh, STBX was not quiet, he was pretty talkative...there was one thing that he said that I saw his insecureness...I mean I SAW that he so wants to "be someone"...if that makes sense...

So, I'm going to let him be...I think that he has a really good friend in his corner...we've been knowing them for a while...we both respect him...MOF, him and his DW D, and then remarried...STBX mentioned hanging out with him and I think that good, he's an older male and can have great influence over STBX regardless of the outcome of our M/R...

I can honestly say that I did see some change...just from the way he talked...this is giving him the opportunity to grow up...good for him...

WOW!

Is this the same guy?

LMAO...from what I saw...same, BUT different...I see some growth...

Just my POV, but I think that he sees that there needs to be change within him...b/c when I left this really put him in a bind...completely unprepared for life...

We had talked about "IF" something happened to me and he would say well, I know about where to find it...

Well, when I left, I took it all, there was no about where to find it...and I did it that way on purpose, took all copies of the bills, titles, you name it...I left him high and dry...

There needs to be more change on his part, and I think that if I leave him to himself and give him the time he needs he will get there...

Who's to say that the difference in the way things were handled was not in due to be part...I KNOW that I pressured the issues before...I had to resolve whatever it was right then and there...no patience...

So, we will see...court this Thurs...and I'll feel sorry for him should the judge say that he has to move out but I'm not going to do anythign about it...he'll have to do for himself...that is his path to follow, not mine...

I have been Tming with STBX this morning and from what I'm hearing he feels that it would be in the best interest of the kids and I to look into trading my car in b/c of all the recent repairs...

He made a very valid point this morning on how each off us deal with things, and I finally "heard" what he was saying and agreed with him...I know now b/c of the soul searching that I have been doing that I do need to be more open minded, and flexible...

We also discussed the sell of our first motorcycle...

I'm really in Awe of what I'm "really hearing" when talking to him...

I have to share my recent pray i've been praying since Sat.:

God, please help me to put aside what I think I know about STBX, so that I may have a truely open mind and a new experience.

Thank everyone for all of the support and posts, the value of your wisdom and POV encourages me to stand firm and maintain my strenght.

Wow, Rin.

I don't know what to say. Except this makes me very nervous. It seems conveniently close to the court date, when you could potentially get the house back. You may want to run this "get Rin & the kids a new place" plan past your lawyer. Just to be sure you're not giving up on any rights, equity, etc. from the old house.

I'm all for you & the boys getting a new place of your own, I just want you to be careful. STBX's timing seems suspicious to me. And I imagine that pouring on the charm could be a pretty effective tactic for him to use right now. Be nice for a few days until he gets what he wants....

I really, really hope that's not what's going on, I just kinda gasped when I saw you go from "Never want him back, too much water under the bridge" to "Does he still want to be M'ed to me?" so quickly. Seems like a very sudden turn-around, on your part, and it seems like it's in reaction to him now "playing nice".

-AmI.

Great news, Rin. You have grown so much, and that growth is paying off.

Thinking a little more - I agree with AmI above about being nervous, and it being so close to court.

It's one thing say the right things on occasion - you need to see consistency, walk the walk rather than talk the talk.

Seems the Goddess in you got more than just your WH's attention <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I think your prayers is great - just also keep in mind that those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Again, doesn't mean he cannot change - actions speak louder than words. (I am just full of cliches aren't I?)

Prayers with you as you proceed.

I didn't bring up the new place idea...I'm letting whatever happens in court be the word!

Actually, I had been questioning myself for some time..."AM I doing the right thing?"

He can be nice all he wants, I'm not giving him anything, do anything for him...

I looked at filing for D as an end, never entertained R as an idea...I was just hoping that he would change before...wishing really...now, it's a possibility...key thing is I'm out and I like my life right now...i will not go back until I'm absoletely sure that:

I feel safe
There are no OP in our R/M
I see some marked improvement in him...

I'm just not going to go back to the way things were...that IS NOT an option for me...I am EXTREMELY guarded right now...and I need to get back to focusing on me...

I have three days to court...and I feel that I can't be concerned with what will happen there, as least not today...today, I'm at work, still Ding STBX...

So, I'm hearing YOU...when you wrote my comment I thought I sounded Wayward...and I think like a wayward, it there even a point that we "COULD" make this work...I don't know but I knwo that I can't make that call with one meeting...that decision will take months...

I'm just not in a rush...so if he is just trying to get something out of me, well, I guess I'll see it...

THIS is WHAT I NEED to SEE...I can't reply on his lip service as I have in the past!

That's why I think it's SOOO important for me to just sit still and breathe...

S4B, when it was certain the divorce between my ex and me was going to happen, the stress between us eased off some also. I'm not sure, but I think it was because of the "light at the end of the tunnel" thing. Truly, the end of the pain was just around the corner, and there wasn't the same pressure there anymore. If we’d called off the divorce, the stress and pain would have returned within days because nothing had been addressed about the marriage itself. The day the divorce was final, my spirits were really high. That's the good part.

Now...there was also a depression I experienced a few days after the final court date. I don't know if you'll go through the same thing, but it's perhaps worth addressing. That depression came to me when it sank in that something I thought was so right became something so wrong. If you think you might be susceptible to something like that, prepare yourself and fill the perceived void with useful activities for you and the kids.

Hang tough, lady.

Thanks LH, I think the best thing I can do right now is to go back dark...and expect the D to process as I had planned...

And just see what happens...

:::Shruggin:::

That's Right!

Funny... I hated New Pukes on the Blocks! Thanks for the reminder!