The only form of abuse in the last 3 years has been verbal or emotional. We would still yell at each other.

This did happen less than in years past. So while I feel that I have a good grasp on my PA. It could still happen.

One of the reasons (this and my own desire to never do it again) the PA stoped is she agreed to let me go for a while. With the knowledge that I would return.

When I did leave I would go sit outside in the yard, walk in the woods behind our trailer, or take a drive to a parking lot and just relax. Most times I was back within 30 min to an hour. There were also times we would talk on the phone while I was out. There were also times she would chase after me. She would have the kids call me and tell me they wanted me to come home. One time I had to jump a fence to lose her so that I could calm down.

This is all moot. It's gossip of the highest order.

Further, any work on our relationship will not even be considered without you finding a counselor trained in Domestic Violence to help men with their abusive behaviors, far, far away from your current counselor.

Further, any work on our relationship will not even be considered without you finding a counselor trained in Domestic Violence to help men with their abusive behaviors, far, far away from your current counselor. That is my boundary.

I have no desire to control you.

Of course you're not. Fogs are strong. It will take awhile before the effects fade enough for you to think clearly.

So what I get from you, BH, is that you WERE abusive, but have taken active measures to correct the problem. You also state that the abuse ended 3 years ago, and I'm taking that you feel that this WAS an issue, but is no longer an active issue for you?

That's no a personal boundary. That's controlling behaviour - you're trying to set boundaries on HIM. Telling him what to do and the consequences if he doesn't do it.

ZP(Yepitsme)-

Nice dodge. Way to avoid taking ANY responsibility and avoid answering any questions. No one here is "gossiping". I'm actually engaged in trying to get the two of you to take steps to move forward and quit the cycle you've both got yourselves trapped in.

That's no a personal boundary. That's controlling behaviour - you're trying to set boundaries on HIM. Telling him what to do and the consequences if he doesn't do it.

MOS-

I'm not trying to pretend anything. What I AM trying to do is to get an accurate summation of the situation from input by both parties.

Erm, what? On what planet?

She's said that she has certain requirements before she will consider relationship talks/work that she is involved in.

That's a personal boundary.

Nothing controlling about it -- she does not owe him a relationship. She has every right to choose who she will and will not have relationships with.

Anyone who thinks she owes you answers -- grow up already.

Sure she has a right to choose to be involved with. We all do. But that's an entirely different subject to what I'm addressing here.

I see you have over 4.2K posts here. Obviously MB works for you. Either that or you have too much time on your hands <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Now, if your S was to tell you that you should no longer visit here, that you should engage the advice on other forums, would you consider that HER personal boundary?

With all due respect, most of my questions have been geared to him, not her.

Huh. Interesting. What I get from her is the opposite -- she was fully prepared for me to refuse to speak to her again when I found out about the online EA. She's been the opposite of holier-than-anyone in my dealings with her.


Her tone is all I have to go on and it seems holier than thou


If I'm guessing right about which bits of phrasing you're finding offensive, I can tell you something about where they're coming from, if you're interested.


First, she's under constant onslaught of people verbally attacking her for daring to protect herself and her children.

This isn't what I have read. AS I stated, no one should have to endure abuse of any form, period and if she feels threatened she should remove herself and the children ASAP.


Her own parents are raining down vicious verbal abuse on her, telling her that she should just accept that her husband should get to rape her as he pleases.


No one should get to "rape" anyone. I guess rape is in how you define it. According to the husband it was one thing and according to wife it was something much more sinister and intruding. I don't know who is telling the truth, but to cry rape is a big deal if it isnt' just that. If it is then she should have called the law to deal with him right then and there, imo.

Under that kind of strain and unending attack, you naturally wind up with the person expressing themselves verbally in a way that can sound fragmented and defensive when talking about the issues related to all that attacking.


Fair enough..

Second, part of her phrasing is related to my own advice on self-forgiveness. Like I said, she expected me to despise and hate her for the EA. I couldn't manage to do so.


This is where I am completely confused or haven't read every post or something. WHO ARE YOU, the husband, boyfriend, friend, relative,...I missed something in the way you have written your posts that has me confused.

Try as I might, I've never heard of nor been able to find a true account of a woman escaping her domestic abuser that didn't involve some badness in her choices on the way out. ZP's path out so far is about as clean as I've ever seen it get, and while I'm not going to stop leaning on her to steer the straight and narrow, I'm not arrogant enough to think less of her for failing to accomplish what no human being can.


I am not surprised that she had failings while distancing herself from "abuse", only that in justifying it she has demeaned herself.


For the same reason, I can't bring myself to think less of BH if he can't stop his abusive patterns in a very short time. I do think less of him for choosing to indulge them in the first place. But no human being, have built those patterns into their lives, can simply just stop them on a dime. I'm not going to condemn him because he can't.


He needs professional help from the sound of things, that we can agree on.

Well that veered off from the original topic -- I hope it was of some service, anyway.