RD,

I gave you all I had in my posts...until now. If you will do your own resentment timeline...write it all out...in that process, you have your answer.

Do that and comeback and tell me what you learned, what was new, what you saw you had no concept of before...

And when you do, we'll take about the jokes your H makes, 'k?

(Arkie is the bestest...please focus on what she's saying...because she said to quite choosing your actions based on your feelings...but on your beliefs. Clears up the head/heart problem for now. You make your priorities, create the time, because you are committed to your marriage...choosing to not do this because you don't feel connected, intimate or much like doing it, is a great choice--keeps you out of the loop that you won't act in a way to increase your intimacy if you don't feel intimate in your marriage...take yourself out of that crazy-making loop, 'k?)

Big kudos on being here, your sincerity and honesty.

LA

Thank you LA.

So the timeline thing, and please forgive my stupidity here, do I just write down what he has done or said that I resent from the beginning until now? I can do this, but I don't see how I am going to learn anything new from this. I am missing something I should be adding to these resentments, like why I think he behaved that way or why I think it upset me or made me angry?


Okay, but man is that going to be hard to do. It's like fighting against myself, plus feel just a bit fake. Is that normal?

Ruby,

Good question. When I wrote out mine, I wrote it like I was speaking to the MC. This was the circumstance, these were my thoughts, this is what happened, and why I resented.

As for choosing to act not from your feelings means choosing to live directly from your beliefs, which is where your feelings (signals) come from.

How can that be fake? You have your feelings...they are yours. They are to you, from you, about you. Getting to know they are yours, they are valid...they are information is part of understanding you don't have to react to them...act from them...they can exist as the valuable information they are.

Like anger...you feel a spasm of anger. It's a secondary emotion...get behind the anger to what was your primary emotion...you may only have felt it for a half-second before the anger gushed in.

No fighting yourself...knowing yourself, instead. A great choice.

And yes, it's hard to do...takes commitment, understanding, acceptance and a lot of practice. You've made this choice repeatedly for your whole life...directing your choices from your feelings. Now you've been offered the belief that a great way to live as a human being is to state your feelings, not demonstrate. Not determine your life from second-hand information and go directly to your belief behind the emotions...so you have clarity before action. Awareness.

You may feel at first like it's living backward...because you're putting the horse before the cart. In reality, living from our feelings was putting the cart before the horse...which is why we stayed looped, going nowhere.

Would you consider that you want to know the outcome before you choose your actions, in regards to not seeing how you're going to learn...rather than choosing to do the exercise and see what you learn?

LA

P.S. Normal? I think so. Was my experience.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

RUBYDOO..

This is marriageBUILDERS...
not marriage-rehash
not marriage-do the impossible and change the past...

this site is all about BUILDING
building a new marriage from this day forward...

look the truth is that people have experienced far far worse truamas in their life than whatever hurts your husband has done...and gone on to live JOYFUL lives....

in fact their trials made them more and more focused on creating and focusing on the new and true blessings....

ruby...you are wearing the martyr victim crown large and loud....

can't have a nice day with hubby today...cause he did something xxx number of years ago...
so instead of making today better..you will focus and hold that dear to your heart...

the truth about relationships is that when they are new ...
when we are dating...

all of our energy and attention goes in to the other person...

happy to see them
wanting to look good for them
engaging them
charming there

there is no reason for this behavior to change....

you are stuck in a cycle of victimhood because that is where you put your energy and recources....

you don't hold him dear to your heart...

you villify him for past afronts...and wait for new ones to add to your growing list....

the cycle of stagnation is set....

it doesn't work
it's not working...
you infact undermine all that you desire with your husband..

a close loving relationship....

he has withdrawn and wants the blame to stop....

isn't life too short for this self created drama and past hurts...

really isn't it...

ark

Thank you LA. I have been thinking a lot the past few days about what you and others have said. I am trying to be more aware of the advice you and others have given me.

This weekend, my H will be out of town so I will have the perfect opportunity to work on that time line. I'll let you know how it goes.

Ark, again, thank you for taking the time to help me out here. I really appreciate it.


Believe it or not, I AM here to build my marriage, but I can not just let go of the past. If I could, then I wouldn't be here. I want to be able to deal with and put to rest not only my H's past behavior that has hurt or angered me, but also my own. I don't know how, so I ask the experienced people here how.


I know I do this, which again, is why I am here. I will say, "can't have a nice day with hubby today" is not only influenced by what he has done yesterday but also by what he does today. I am trying to learn how to let go of the past and deal with the present. Obviously, what I was doing wasn't working.


I completely agree with this and working very hard on it.


Yes, I do.


We both have done this to an extent. Although, I do want to question his level of withdrawal but will not since it would be an obvious DJ on my part.


So just let go of the past, nothing I can do about it anyway, and create a think skin for any future hurts, nothing I can do about it anyway? Or is there a plan that will allow me to deal with the past and future in a more healthy and productive way? That's why I'm here afterall.

I was just wondering if there are any books that may help me.

Books about forgiving oneself would be very helpful too.

Ruby,

When you do your timeline this weekend, are you gonna come back and share with me? Are ya? Huh? Huh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I highly recommend John Bradshaw's books..."Healing the Shame That Binds Us" and "Homecoming" and his "Family Secrets." In that order.

As for forgiving yourself...how about Maya Angelou's famous quotation (which now, I can't quote)...about us doing the best we could with what we knew then, and doing better when we know better.

And you already know so much more than you, Ruby.

I'm sure others have great books on it, though. Good idea.

LA

Hi Ruby,

Here's a book recommendation thread for you.

Recommended Books by MBers

Rubydoo,

Been traveling and am about to do more, so I don't have much time. I have reread this thread and think you are getting terrific advice. I would like to refresh my memory. Your H is in the military right?

Ok, I'll assume the answer is yes for a moment, but really this does apply to most men anyway.

1. Men don't have feelings, got that? Men have ego's. To a person from a planet that 2Long and I both love and study, it would seem that feelings and ego are the same. But, they are not. At least as we humans express them. Ego is about accomplishment, pride, self-image, facing fear, being better good. And when those things are called into question, us guys feel threatened and as if we were failures, the worst thing that can happen to a guy.

Women have feelings, and frankly I don't know what they are <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but they seem to be about self-esteem, self-image, thoughts of being wanted, thoughts of being loved, thoughts of being appreciated,etc. When these things are called into question women feel threatened and as if they are failures, the worst thing that can happen to a woman.

You want to talk to your H about feelings, but he has been reared and trained to NEVER let feelings determine what he does and his decision making. In truth it is the advice you will and are receiving yourself. Feelings come and go, but actions and love can build a great marriage.

Given that he doesn't even want to admit that he has feelings, then it is not surprising that he does not want to talk to you about yours, and by connection...his.

2. Men and woman are socialized very differently. If a female friend is hurting for some reason, her friends will put their arms around her, comfort her, tell her how much they like her, and eventually assure her that she is right to feel hurt and that it isn't her fault.

If a male is hurt, his friend will go to him tell him to suck it up, perhaps a whack on the back and tell him get with the program and do his job. They will also tell him that he is an A-hole, a jerk, or some other less than PC name. They might listen to the problem, but the solutions will be that, solutions: leave her, buy her flowers, do SOMETHING, but get with the program.

Given just these to rather extreme explanations of men and women, it is amazing that we ever get together isn't it? But, the primary thing that pulls us together is sex (yup you got it), and the drive to have and rear children. Sounds pretty simplistic doesn't it? Well, I'm tryin here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What else brings us together? Fear does. Greed does as well. Now I am not just talking about money here. I am talking about wanting someone to do things for us, take care of us, protect us. That is the greed part.

What do we fear? Being alone, no one caring, being rejected, etc.

Our partner is supposed to address these things, but we express them so differently. You will want to talk, he will want to withdraw. He will want sex, you will want to be left alone. He will want to touch you and you will NOT want to be touched.

Now what am I really telling you? I am telling you that the folks posting to you are asking you to reevaluate WHY you feel the way you do within the context of your marriage and the paradigm that men and women are different. LA's list of resentments is a starting point, to see how your H might view things and react to things.

You control your actions, you know your goals, and you can achieve them if you learn how to translate between how YOU want things and speak about things and how your H does.

I have a feeling that your H is not trying to push you away, he just doesn't understand your language. If he is in the military consider carefully how they use words to describe things and people and you will begin to see how to talk with him and approach him.

I think this can work out especially if you listen to the ladies posting to you.

My point? Actually there are many. But, it is my guess that you are seeing things in his actions that he did not tend in the way you have interpretted them.

I'll be back, but it will be awhile.

Good luck and God Bless,

JL

Good morning all!

LA, well I worked on my timeline some this weekend. It's not a very happy process is it? What I have found the "theme" to be with my resentments is either lies, usually lies by ommission, or some form of me feeling rejected.

The lies range from little annoying ones that I don't even understand why he is lying about it, to ones that the content involved me in some way, financially, family, etc, but he kept from me.

The behavior where I end up feeling rejected ranges from directly pointing out a negative about me, like when he patted my tummy on our honeymoon and told me I needed to work on that, to not comforting me or trying to take care of me when I needed it, family issues, birth of our 1st child, pregnancy, my depression. I suppose I could also add that I don't feel important enough to him when I tell him the things I need from him to make me feel loved by him, but he still doesn't do them.

One thing I have noticed while working on this, is that I feel like a complaining and self-centered person for being hurt by these things. I feel like I am sitting here saying me, me, me. Is that normal? I do not like for others to see me as selfish or spoiled, FOO issues, so I am having a hard time looking at this list and even a harder time talking about it. Thank goodness for anonymous boards, huh?


You lost me here. Are you saying I already know more than I think I do?

Thank you for the book recommendations also. You too MAZ.

JL, no, my H isn't in the military.


You are very correct about this. There have been quite a few occassions where I have heard his father tell him, or others, to stuff down his/their feelings or ignore them or dismiss them. This is a concept I just don't find healthy, but that's JMO.



I'm going under the assumption that you, and everyone here, is correct. I just have a hard time seeing how it is going to work. How do I let his negative comments, negative in my opinion, not hurt me. How do I let go of the ways I want to be loved by him that he is unwilling to do. How I am going to be emotionally connected to him when he isn't interested in that. How in the world am I going to truly be happy in this marriage without feeling like I have to give up the things that I want and need.

Ruby,



I hear you saying it wasn't a happy process for you. Am i perceiving correctly that you didn't feel freed from resentment in this exercise? I feel happy and free as virtually the same thing.



Do you have the expectation that your H will tell you the truth of his actions, his truth about his stuff, and his lying (directly or by omission) fails your expectation? Causes you resentment? Would you consider your choice to believe his lies may play a part in it? Or your perception that he's rejecting you, you feeling lies as rejection, is coming from you?



In doing your timeline...did you see a pattern of expectation? Expecting him to not share his thoughts on your honeymoon if they might hurt you; to comfort, take care of you when you needed it, resolve family issues with you, make different choices in his actions regarding the birth of your first child, during your pregnancy, and somehow treat your depression?

Expectations are premeditated resentments. What we often fail to realize is that our expectations are often uncommunicated, up to mindreading, or "what any normal human being would know to do!" Our choices remain.



This is the tender side of resentment...where logic whispers you are right...you are right...you did it right...and you still resent. Locks you into a loop of being right, not married. If you said, "I want you to help out in the house more. My DS EN isn't being met. You can do dishes after dinner, fold clothes with me in the evening after the kids are in bed and clean the garage once a month," then you're specifically sharing how that EN can be met. Do you negotiate it? "I hate cleaning the garage worse than a root canal. How about I do the vacuuming on Saturdays, instead?" Would you still get the love bank deposit? Or would you feel rejected?

And can you see all the ways he already loves you...acts on his choice to love (which you cannot earn anymore than he can earn your love)? Seeing what really is greatly affected my expectations of what wasn't.



This exercise is about looking from the inside to the outside...resentment is again, poison we take from the outside, which hurts our insides. Sounds like you're looking from the outside inward. Sort out your choices within your list...what you chose to do...from believing, to acting on or not acting on. See your power.

There's a post about resentment (the way I saw it) over on the Passive-Aggressive thread by nabohio. When you read it, see if it stirs anything in you to see your resentments in a new light. Not about being abnormal, selfish or self-indulgent. I have a difficult time explaining what happened to me when I did the timeline...as I was doing it, I realized each time, there was my half...where I could have chosen differently...and had no idea at the time I had those choices or that power.

And believe, I wrestled to get my DH to love me with all my might...I understand deeply how "I've tried everything to make this marriage work" feels like. And how very untrue it was, in the end, when I only can make my half work. And when I worked on it, the whole marriage changed drastically.

Not me changing DH...him loving me all the way through it. Getting to where my own rejection (huge life pole for me) cut out the love...where my own created resentments blocked deposits...and where I dwelled on every lie by omission, every arrow which hit my soft spot, and repeated those statements again and again in my head, long after they stopped being said.

I had a marriage full of blame, with no ownership. He said I ruined every holiday...similar to your H saying that you took what had been a happy event (birth of your child) and ruined it for him. I know that pain, Ruby. I'm not sharing anything I didn't live. I hear you.

Understanding what YOU believe changes your own feelings...and you cannot ruin his experience. He has his own experience. It's valid. It's his. Even his experience of you ruining it by sharing your perspective at the time is valid. You're not doing it. You're sharing.

What you must determine is ARE you sharing? Or are you blaming? Are you saying, "Fix me." My DH couldn't fix my depression...he wasn't schooled in it, didn't understand it, did not share in it and at times comforted, ignored, cheered or sorrowed with me. Nothing worked. It was MY depression. Up to me, not him. My expectation for him to fix me wore us down to the nubs, raw and hurting. And he stayed...lived with...worried about, chewed on, and was there for me, all the way.

That was my choice to expect my partner, not my parent, to cure me. To cause me. To control me.

Why fight the control if you look for the cure?

Why not focus on what we cause, control and cure in ourselves? It's like an unrealized galaxy inside of us...we only have this power over ourselves...and cannot control, cause or cure anyone of anything. They do that. Any advice you read which sets off that light in your mind or your chest, that's you realizing "yes! That's it!" from a new perspective. Not the person sharing doing it...YOU.

You're your own light...and authentic self is signalling you...that the payoff in being right is a false...far exceeded by the authentic payoff in being married.

My DH's list of resentments was short...five items. He's thought of more in the last two years...I have, as well. Here's what happens when these thoughts occur..."Hey, know what? I used to resent you for coming home and asking first about what's for dinner, instead of how I was doing, even while you were kissing or hugging me hello."

I don't share what I don't realize myself first. I resented. I missed that he hugged or kissed me hello...his touch was there, he was present and he was home to us...every night, where he wanted to be...and I didn't feel first place...second to food...his real passion. Who did that resentment, Ruby? Was it him? Or was it me?

Courting will make us best friends. Marriage will make us enemies. Best friends are easy...feel like partners, each other completing us...because our best selves are there to be shown. Marriage shows real selves...over time...some parts even to ourselves for the first time...and there we were, duped, into believing they were our cure...our place of safety and solace...us against the world...and when we aren't, can't be, the cure for the other...our old brains designate our partners as our enemies...the ones who fail our expectations, cause more harm than FOO, did, instead of heal us from all our first wounds...they rescore them, deepen them and keep them open.

Because we're two humans in a human marriage. Normal, reasonable and I believe, necessary. As a child, we looked to our primary caregiver to comfort us when we ailed...that's parenting, not partnering. Our partners can acknowledge we ail...they cannot cure us...they by our side, sharing our ails, and hopefully, sharing theirs with us...so we know and experience together. We are equals.

When we plan for an event to be special...requiring others to do and say in certain ways...expected responses...does the event stop being special? What we believe remains...if it's special to us, then it remains special. I'm referring to the birth of your first child, now.

And here's where we depart experiences. I did not know until my third son was born what it was to have a husband. I had my first with 14 strangers surrounding me in natural childbirth, at 22. I had my second with my boss as my coach, again natural, and my oldest friend. No husband.

All as consequences from my own choices. Not others.

So when my youngest was born...my natural inclination may have been to want what I wanted, when I wanted it, in the way I wanted it. Instead, I was so freaked out that my DH was there...wondering in and out...quiet as a mouse...not talking, not really coaching...just being there...I may have resented the heck out of him. I didn't. That was unusual...because I was focused on him not seeing me as a wimp (had a spinal block); that's right...how he say me. And when the doctor finally laid that newborn baby in his quivering arms after nine hours, I watched my DH's face without expectation...no clue. And I swear, I saw the light within my DH come out...a face normally only reserved for me (to my way of thinking) and he said, "Hi, there" in this tender, careful voice, with that stunning smile.

All through my pregnancy, he was there...and I was freaked at not doing it alone. God gave me that experience for a reason...maybe I'm only getting it now...because I wasn't ready to fully take in all that my resentments for others shut out of my life. Wow. He was there, Ruby. And he stayed.

And even when he left, he came back. He's here. That's huge for the rejection/abandonment pole in me. Up to me to see and experience all he is...separate from what he's done or not done...said or not said...side by side. Partnering, not parenting.

How much did you resent, growing up, when you compared your parents against what parents should be? When you defined what they should do and didn't; or did and shouldn't? How much did that get in the way of what they really did, who they really were? We inherit resentment loops...passed down from generation to generation.

You're breaking that chain right now. Resentment is a choice...it's not done to us...comes from our expectations...do you have reasonable ones? Your DH lies by omission...don't choose to believe you're hearing the truth. Don't choose to rely on what is not complete. You won't melt and you won't fail...because you have your choices...right there. To believe or not.

Until my DH experienced me not believing his truth as the truth, he believed that our marriage would fail if either of us lost trust. We lost it several times. I lied by omission every time I didn't share my stuff, in "I" statements...didn't work through where my feelings were coming from and blamed him...that was lying. Blame-shifting is...not real. Fantasy. Lies. Until I found where I lied to myself, found my false payoffs for doing so...I continued to lie to my DH, and he to me. The break came when I owned, instead of blamed; when I shared instead of instructed, criticized or defended. Came when I chose not to believe, and act from my love of him, anyway.

Lots of books, posts, MC and time spent pondering...what is my part? What am I choosing right now? I had to choose not to worry (go into the future as if I could protect myself from what would happen if I thought, felt, experienced it ahead of time); and I had to stop the tapes in my head replaying all those statements which scorched and seared...like the timeline...until I could see where I didn't choose to clarify, to know...where my own assumptions or lack of sharing, kicked my own heart and I blamed my DH for it.

So I can live in the right now...and see my DH as a whole, complete person...see his choices as his, not me making him in anyway...and see my own.

If you go back in your mind to your honeymoon and him doing and saying that, not as the Ruby you were...as the Ruby you are now...would you say, "I hear you saying my tummy is a problem for you, is that correct?"

Because his stuff is his...not your doing. Intimacy is knowing and being known...not judging and being judged. We know this as the partners we truly are; knowing and being known. When we are enemies, we are judging and being judged.

Our choice which one you see your DH as...and yourself. Choose partners. His opinions aren't fact...nor are yours. Up to you to stop taking them as fact. Or stating yours as fact. Balance begins within and moves outward...into every relationship in your life.

A big influence on me getting this was "Between Parent and Child" by Eincott. I don't know if I mentioned that on your thread.

Do you comfort yourself? Acknowledge your feelings and not act from them? Did you celebrate, commisserate, support and approve of your pregnancy? Do you love your tummy, your ears, your eyes, your feet as yours...made by God, solely yours? And your choice to share your physical, emotional, mental and spiritual wonders with your DH...not for his approval, acceptance, response or reaction...just as your act of love of self and DH...from your choice...to live an intimate, partnering life?

Then do for him what you desire done for yourself...if you want to be heard and acknowledged (not cured)...do so for him. Not to get him to...to BE the partner you truly are...not dependent on his response...him shaping your choices...which is at the core of resentment. He's not making you anything (maybe a sandwich on Sundays). You're feeling...trace and know.

What did you choose to do when he patted your tummy? What were your beliefs at the time, your expectations, your boundaries?

LA

No I didn't feel freed, the opposite actually. It brought all those resentments right back out to the front. I was much more aware of them.


Yes, I do expect him to be truthful with me and when he isn't I become resentful. No, I don't think me believing his lies plays a part in my resentments. I also, in most instances, don't see him lying to me as rejecting me. I do feel disrespected. Is that a form of rejection?


I don't think I saw a pattern. It just seems to be the same things in different situations, over and over again.

As for the honeymoon thing, yes it hurt like heck and baffled me. We were walking to dinner; I was dressed up in this cute little sundress; he reached over and patted my tummy, said that I needed to work on it. I felt ugly, fat and not desirable. I do not understand how he could say something like that, and then expect me to feel sexy later on. KWIM?

As for the other things, child birth, pregnancy, depression, no I do not expect him to cure or fix anything. What I did and do expect is for him to at least show me his concern. His actions made me feel as if I didn't matter, my problems were/are unimportant. For example, in regards to my depression, when I tried to talk to him about it, he told me I had nothing to be depressed about and get over it. I was wasting "his" money on therapy. Talking about a resentment, he only makes slightly more than me and doesn't see it as a waste to spend almost 4 times as much money on the country club membership each month as I do in therapy.


Yes, I have finally realized if I want something then I have to ask for it. However, I have found out asking for it doesn't guarrantee a thing either.


I do this. I have specifically shared with him, how my EN's can be met. This is when he told me that what I want is unrealistic and guys just aren't that way. Although, he is wonderful in other areas, like helping with housework, and I know if he wasn't, I would resent it. However, in regards to the house, I don't necessarily see this as an EN because the house is his responsibility too. He is very involved with our children, but again, I feel they are his responsibility too, so he should be involved. Although, I do realize how lucky I am in regards to that, as compared to others.


I can see the ways he loves me. Like I said, he helps around the house, is involved with the children, will participate in just about any fun activity I plan, but these things just don't draw me close to him. They don't create intimacy for me. I see this as him doing his fair share.


So when you gave your half 100%, his half followed suit? Or did what you found to be important change? Your focus was on how you could be the best spouse you could be and just quit wanting or needing anything from your H?


How did you stop dwelling on it? How do you just ignore the next lie by omission or the next arrow? How do you not let these things affect how you feel about the person saying or doing them, again and again? Don't get me wrong, these things aren't an every day occurance, but they aren't necessarily once or twice a year type of things either. How do you not let that influence you?


Hmmm, I would probably say that in the past and in most instances, I was blaming but thought I was sharing. This is what you did, this is how you made me feel, please don't do it again type of thing.

As for my depression, I in no way expect him to fix it. I need for him to show concern or at least acknowledge it. I need to be able to talk to him about it, especially when I am having a particularly bad day. I no longer discuss it with him. He isn't interested. Heck, he doesn't even believe I truly am depressed, after all, I have nothing to be depressed about.

I don't understand how I can feel close to him, when I feel very pushed away by him over something that is really affecting my life right now.


That's what I want, to be acknowledged, to share, to have him by my side. I don't feel I have this. I acknowledge his ails. I comfort, encourage him to share, and try to be there for him. I don't feel he does the same for me.


I still consider the birth of my first child a very special event. I think back on it as one of the most special days of my life. I keep his birth seperate from my H's actions afterwards. So although, I hold that day in my heart as very special, my H's actions still hurt me and made me feel very unloved and unimportant and very alone. And I realize that I let myself feel that way, but how do I not let someone else's actions affect me. Do I say oh well, that's just how he is? It was that day that I started to feel I couldn't count on him when the going got tough; when I needed someone in my corner.


Not much resentment growing up. Except for one big instance, my childhood was pretty darn good and I consider my parents very big blessings to me. I think I would have handled some things differently then how they did, but there isn't any resentment there because of that.

Could you explain resentment loops?


So how do you know and be known? By sharing what? Near the beginning of this thread, it was suggested that I stop sharing my feelings with my H, so what do I share? How do I know him, when I feel he doesn't share? How does he know me, when I feel he isn't interested a lot of the time?



I suppose I comfort myself some. I'm not really sure how, or if I already do and just do not realize it.

How does a person acknowledge their feelings without acting on them? Is it as simple as saying to yourself, that hurt my feelings and made me feel unimportant? What next?

I enjoyed my pregnancies, once the 24/7 sickness went away.

I do not like a lot of things about myself. I am working on acceptance, but it is slow going.

I share with my H, but I definitely seek his approval, acceptance, reaction, etc.


I told him thanks a lot and threw up a wall. Not the most productive way to handle, but I was shocked, hurt and 22.

LA, you mentioned a few times about being partners in your marriage.

What I hear you saying is that marriage is about partnership, 50/50.

I think my H and I are pretty good partners. We parent good together. We take care of our household pretty good together. We give each other time for our individual hobbies. We both work and bring in a decent income. We can enjoy each other's company as friends.

Where I see the disconnect is that connection, that intimacy that makes the relationship between a husband and wife different from all other types of relationships.

Does that make sense?

Shouldn't a marriage have passion, desire, comfort, acceptance, etc? Or is that expecting too much?

Believe me, I want those things in my marriage, I just do not know how to get them there. Which I am sure you and everyone else is telling me how to do just that, but I am not getting it.

Can someone just hand over the cliffs notes please! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

o/t

How do you change the title of your thread? The title that appears under subject in a forum.

Thank you

Ruby,

I've been following your thread, situation is very similar to mine, or at least what it was. We are better than we were but still a work in progress.

To change your thread title, go to your very first post that you started the thread with. It should have a button at the top that says EDIT, it is next to the reply, quote, quick reply buttons.

Click on that and you should be able to edit your subject.

Good luck...

LA is wonderful, hang in there.

MAZ

Thank you MAZ.

Finally, something easy!

Ruby,

"Yes, I do expect him to be truthful with me and when he isn't I become resentful. No, I don't think me believing his lies plays a part in my resentments. I also, in most instances, don't see him lying to me as rejecting me. I do feel disrespected. Is that a form of rejection?"

Question: Why do you expect your H to be truthful when he lies directly and by omission?

Good to know you don't experience being lied to as rejection of you. What does feeling disrespected mean to you?

"I don't think I saw a pattern. It just seems to be the same things in different situations, over and over again."

You see where the same things happen over and over again, just different situations? What does a pattern look like to you? (I'm not being sarcastic...to me, a pattern is when we see repetition, like a theme...conceptual, not actual...i.e., he lied about why he was late at a party...and he lied about why he was late getting home...same pattern, goes to expectation of being on time, not what for.)

The honeymoon thing: " I felt ugly, fat and not desirable. I do not understand how he could say something like that, and then expect me to feel sexy later on. KWIM?"

Now, did you say that to him? You told him years later, is that correct? He said his opinion and you took it as fact...and you don't see where your half in perceiving is, as well as his half in stating his opinion?

Why did you assume he wanted you to feel sexy later on? Did he say, "you'll only be sexy to me if you lose the tummy?" Or did he find you sexy then? Your total sexy package?

Can you see where if you take the tummy issue and have it negate your whole package...all of you...that's your half, as well? Not all him saying what he said...yours...and now you have the tool to clarify or confirm...and to KNOW your half through awareness. You didn't then.

Which is why it isn't important to share this old statement with your H now...he can't go back and unsay it, clarify or confirm it, necessarily, because he may not think anything close to what he said then. He's new...you're new. What helps is examining our half...like the timeline...to say, I had a choice and I didn't see it then...I see it now.

What were your choices you see now that you didn't see then?

A key signal is when your powerless feeling drops down...then you know you're getting somewhere with this exercise. Powerless in the face of others' statements...their opinions...is a signal to you about giving your power to them by believing their opinion as fact.

"What I did and do expect is for him to at least show me his concern. His actions made me feel as if I didn't matter, my problems were/are unimportant. For example, in regards to my depression, when I tried to talk to him about it, he told me I had nothing to be depressed about and get over it. I was wasting "his" money on therapy. Talking about a resentment, he only makes slightly more than me and doesn't see it as a waste to spend almost 4 times as much money on the country club membership each month as I do in therapy."

Do you know how much your H was concerned for you in all these things? His fears while you were pregnant, fears about depression, fears about money, hearing your feelings as his responsibility...that he doesn't provide well enough, doesn't care or act caring enough, in the way you want, when you want it, in the words you want to hear...how much does your H fear failure?

I see the country club membership as a sign he very much fears failure...and may look at that as a way to make money...the spend it to get it theory...and doesn't see how you make money from therapy. I believe you do.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Is that what you POJA'd with him...that he could get the membership if you got therapy? You're half, Ruby. You can say no to anything which you will resent. You can brainstorm to come up with what you will be enthusiasitic about. You are responsible for your OWN perceptions...they are NOT The Truth...They are your truth. No matter how many people would say, "Yes, that would hurt me"...your feelings are valid, they are yours...in now way can your feelings be The Truth.

Nor can his. His opinions cannot be the truth. His actions, your actions...CHOICES are The Truth. If you see both your incomes as collective...then there is no "his" money or "your" money...you BOTH are paying for membership and therapy.

If you have a mutual account for household bills, both of those fall into monthly debt, therefore, you're both paying for them.

If you have entirely separate finances...with no mutuality, then he's paying the membership from his income and you're paying your therapy from your own. You win...yours is less!

You expected your H to say or do something different than he did. YOUR expectation. I don't understand why you aren't understanding that...your half.

Resentment hides our power behind our own backs...and we feel powerless and resentment steps in and gives us a false feeling of power. False power. How backwards is that? YOU STILL HAVE YOUR REAL POWER.

I'm asking you to look behind your back...and I'm hearing you say, there's nothing there. You have no part. It's all him...all the way. Is that really possible in a relationship, Ruby?

I hear "He shouldn't have said, thought, perceived, believed or felt." Is that what you're saying?

How did he not acknowledge you sharing about depression? He acknowledged...he said he couldn't understand it...depression itself...he didn't believe in paying for it and he paid anyway. How is that not acknowledgment? It wasn't, "I'm so concerned about your depression. I feel fearful of it...I don't understand depression. I'm afraid to know what it is, because from what I've heard, it can be a lifetime thing. I fear I'm the cause. I don't want to hear I'm the cause. I don't want a therapist telling you I'm the cause...so please don't even tell me if that's what the therapist IS telling you." What if that were all true, Ruby...would you still choose to resent?

I'm saying since you didn't know then to clarify or confirm...you can't know. You can't know for then...both of your communication skills are really terrible...so were mine...how can we communicate better when we didn't even know we weren't communicating well in the first place?

This is my goal...for how I changed my life...by choosing my perspective through awareness.

"Yes, I have finally realized if I want something then I have to ask for it. However, I have found out asking for it doesn't guarrantee a thing either."

No, asking for it doesn't guarantee a thing either. I agree. I'm asking you to examine what you're asking for...to find a negotiated, happy balance. Not all your side or his...in the middle. Fertile ground. When you consider an EN, are you completely satisfied in seeing all the ways it can be met, and what he may already be doing to meet it?

I don't see constructive communication...so I would begin there. Listen and repeat is an act of respect from one human to another. Respect as in knowing you can only control yourself, not others, not admiration. A self-boundary...where you do not take others' stuff as your own...about you...first, you repeat what you heard, which owns your filter. Asking for this to be how you both communicate now is where I would begin. So that your perception isn't the truth...and his truth isn't yours...and you can get to your real power and limits.

Doesn't mean he'll do it. Mine didn't at first. The more I did it, though, and it was part of our twice a week communication exercises, the more my DH chose to do it. Now, it's second nature...until we slip into our old styles, that is...then not so second nature.

Third nature?

Resentments come from lack of boundaries and boundary enforcements. That was my experience. So if I hold myself to acting from respect, because that's what really is important to me...then I will listen and repeat. I go for clarity, not judgment...and mind what I take automatically as a put down, knowing that offense, like blame, has to be taken...it really can't be forced onto anyone.

So I mind my half. Stay aware. Consider.

"I do this. I have specifically shared with him, how my EN's can be met. This is when he told me that what I want is unrealistic and guys just aren't that way. Although, he is wonderful in other areas, like helping with housework, and I know if he wasn't, I would resent it. However, in regards to the house, I don't necessarily see this as an EN because the house is his responsibility too. He is very involved with our children, but again, I feel they are his responsibility too, so he should be involved. Although, I do realize how lucky I am in regards to that, as compared to others."

What I hear you saying is that you are aware of the way he meets your EN for FS, FC and DS...though you discount his contributions in a way because you choose to believe he's responsible, anyway. And on the other hand, you can envision how it would be if he didn't choose to meet those ENs, as you've read others struggle with...and appreciate and admire his acts of love?

Many men would say that's not how men are...so I guess I don't understand what you're asking of him when told him how he could meet your ENs specifically.

Have you examined what you are asking for and found it reasonable? Doable? Not for you...for him?

"I can see the ways he loves me. Like I said, he helps around the house, is involved with the children, will participate in just about any fun activity I plan, but these things just don't draw me close to him. They don't create intimacy for me. I see this as him doing his fair share."

You can see his acts of love, done through his choice, and you don't feel closer to him? Then you say it doesn't create intimacy...would you consider these are two different things? One, feeling loved...another, feeling known?

I think you just helped me to sort out those two aren't the same. Thank you! His acts of love get into your love bank...unless you are discounting them...giving them half value or no value. That's your part, your half. You can feel loved, valued, important, considered...make sure you're not blocking feeling loved.

As for intimacy...takes one person to act intimately...to know and share your stuff. That's intimacy. Do you really hear his stuff as his? Know he's sharing his truth with you? I ask because I believed my DH didn't share anything...deadly and silent. When I held myself to my boundary of respect, I was surprised to find that he did share...wasn't a flood I was missing...wasn't a drought, either, as I had perceived. And the more I held myself to my respect boundary, the more he has shared. His sharing wasn't predicated on my actions...he was influenced by them. He chooses to share a lot now...and we have deeper intimacy than we've experienced before in our lives.

Took my owning my half to get there...he couldn't make me own it.

Yes, owning my half changed everything...because it changed ME. My discounting stopped...owning my resentments as my creations removed years of grime in the way of feeling loved...I heard more, because I listened; I saw more, because I was more aware...and as for wanting or needing anything from my DH...have to tell you...taking in all that was really there was overwhelming at first...moreso because I stood to lose it all...and I believe you stand the same chance of losing it all...because you can't see how much you're really losing if you leave.

And that's a reasonable human choice...we rarely see what we have until it's gone. Our own discounting, reasoning, denying and demands get in the way. No bashing here.

I worked on meeting my own ENs...because I lived so externally, I looked only for them to be met...and was surprised at unreasonable that was for me, for any relationship. I made my goal to identify reasonable ways for my ENs to be met to reasonable levels. So I owned my half of my own ENs, as well. And I still do...which is why I know you have an EN for FS, FC and DS...because they are being met well, you don't see them as such. Take those away...make your H into an every other weekend H, splitting your finances into two households...and I would imagine these might jump far up the list...with hindsight relish spread liberally.

I'm not advocating that you accept abuse or garbage to hang onto what you have...no accepting crumbs. What I'm urging you to do is to see your actual reality...your power...your actions...do you act from love, or are you trying to earn it, yank it, drain it out of your H so you can be happy or feel filled?

I fill myself from my own acts of love...each sentence I listen and repeat...eye-contact...touches...chores...each time I share my stuff...I fill up with feeling loved and loving feelings...from my own acts. That spills over...my H feels very loved, his opinion. And his actions no longer aren't enough, lacking; and my requests are answered, promises carried through. His choice to act on his love for me. My responsibility to see all the ways I didn't before...like him asking me that on Mother's Day...not blaming me...asking if I was okay...looking me in the eye...and then I was...because I knew this road well, and his act of love woke me up to it being that same old road. I turned around and took my new one again.

I see each call, each question as interaction...by choice. That's abundant, Ruby. I live in abundance.

"How did you stop dwelling on it? How do you just ignore the next lie by omission or the next arrow? How do you not let these things affect how you feel about the person saying or doing them, again and again? Don't get me wrong, these things aren't an every day occurance, but they aren't necessarily once or twice a year type of things either. How do you not let that influence you?"

I pulled my focus back from having it all over him...to all over me. That's how I stopped dwelling on his choices, his stuff. My DH does lie by omission even now. He calls it forgetting...forgetting to pass on info from our sons when they talk..."Oh yeah, they are coming over tonight" about three days late. How does that not hurt? Easy. I get to see my sons tonight! LOL. I also share my reaction. "I'm feeling left out and a little fearful right now. I'm choosing not to rely on you to pass on information for the time being. I've learned you don't and I accept that."

It's what I did before, about not believing him...believing his truth was valid...as his...not as the truth for me. When he would say, "I'm going to do this tomorrow" I chose not to believe him. I repeated, "You're going to do that tomorrow. Okay. I hear you." No disrespect...and at first (a couple of years ago), he would "forget" and I stopped reminding him of his own promises. And I didn't ask him to make any to me, either. My experience said he broke promises and he lied. I no longer expected him to keep promises and tell me the truth. I didn't expect him to tell me the truth when he had said he didn't even tell himself the truth.

That was reasonable for me. How about financial lies by omission? I separated our accounts...we have a bill paying account, he has his own account and I have mine. I pay all the bills form our mutual account (and he has no atm card or checks on it), and pay him his allotment (taking his monthly net against half of all the bills) and pay me my own. If he doesn't record an expenditure in his checkbook...he has the consequences. If he doesn't pay a credit card he has in his name only, then that's his. Won't bounce my stuff or affect our bill paying account. I removed myself from his consequences. He doesn't have to lie by omission about how much he spent on this or that...and when he takes me to lunch or dinner...he's really taking me! Or I'm taking him! Real gifts...real time.

He pays for his own gas, car repairs, toys, impulse food and old debt from when he went against my desire and bought a car using our savings and then used the rest of our savings to repair it. He took out a loan and paid the family back after he owned his choices. Same for losing money on a house he owned...and the more he owned his choices, the freer he became and resentment left him, also.

Not weighted down, done to...a victim any longer. Which is why I know my experience isn't unusual.

He stopped saying and doing them again and again. Not because I stopped believing. I changed the whole dance when I changed that step...and accepted, without judgment, his choices.

My DH has said: "I didn't tell you this because I was thinking the old way, about you being upset. That's not who I am. I'm choosing to tell you this now." And I repeat, appreciate and know I'm shared with. I don't feel hurt...that arrow...just as I don't dwell on where we disconnect, when we do...I choose to dwell on the knowledge we reconnect, and how. Both happen...where you dwell, there is your treasure.

My choice where I focus...which is, where I dwell.

You nailed another part of my human power...I am the one who opens wide, narrows or shuts the door entirely to others' influence. No one can influence me against my will. In the same way, I am limited by what influence my DH allows me on him.

"Hmmm, I would probably say that in the past and in most instances, I was blaming but thought I was sharing. This is what you did, this is how you made me feel, please don't do it again type of thing."

This is the realization I was hoping you'd have for the breakthrough...saying "you made me feel" is tantamount to saying "you are responsible for my feelings, good or bad" and no one is...we are. They are our feelings. How we perceive is our half...very important. We perceive in ways from our beliefs..."love looks like this" and "if he loved me, he wouldn't do or say this" which means we make others' choices about US...are they really? Or are they about them? Same for our own words and actions...are they ours?

I'm not sure you understand how you create your own resentment...I will show you how you nuture and grow it...

"I no longer discuss it with him. He isn't interested. Heck, he doesn't even believe I truly am depressed, after all, I have nothing to be depressed about.

I don't understand how I can feel close to him, when I feel very pushed away by him over something that is really affecting my life right now."

You are choosing not to share all the you're doing to cure yourself of depression because of his possible response. You make him your master, which grows resentment hugely...and you're doing that, he isn't. What he said then isn't now...if you make your choice to act intimately based on his actions, then you are limiting your own feelings of closeness, aren't you?

You're doing that...not him.

These two paragraphs of yours define "taking poison and waiting for the other person to die." Truly. A great example...and it's a trap you put around yourself and then mourn you're in it. I want you to break free. You have that power, that choice.

If you want to share here about the depression you're experiencing...I do have that in my experience, too.

"That's what I want, to be acknowledged, to share, to have him by my side. I don't feel I have this. I acknowledge his ails. I comfort, encourage him to share, and try to be there for him. I don't feel he does the same for me."

He did acknowledge your depression, your stuff. May not have been in the way you wanted him to...he did. He does share...may not be in the way you want him to...he does. You are side by side, even when you don't feel like you are. You are equals. Up to you to set your perspective to act from this reality...in order for you to feel like it's real.

You say you listen and repeat (acknowledgment his ailments); does he believe you acknowledge his stuff? Does he feel you comfort him? Encourage or are there for him? What is HIS perspective? You state what you do as fact...I believe you act to comfort, encourage, acknowledge, support...because you are FOCUSED on him...doesn't mean he believes or feels like you do.

You do it because it's in your code...who you really are...minding your half of your partnership...not to get him to do it in the way you want him to...up to you to perceive if he's doing it in the way you didn't see...

And now I'm repeating. I do this...I respond to a post over the course of the morning and lose sight of the fact we're not talking back and forth...so as I respond to your paragraphs, I begin thinking, "Why did she say that? Doesn't she see where I already responded to this? (meaning what I JUST WROTE). Oh. That's all me, Ruby.

So I repeat. I think I'm falling down my own rabbit hole.

Silly work interrupting me.

Resentment loop..."Because you did this, I feel this, and I resent you for doing that." The way you left the potatoe peeler in the sink. "Because you didn't do that, I feel this, and I resent you for not doing that when I wanted you to do it." Not the potatoe peeler again, this time, the front door left open...or your coat on the floor...or your (anything) (anywhere)...again and again, telling you that what you do makes others resent...and you feeling resentment for being so powerful as to cause others to feel, think, believe, perceive...all you...and you're not that powerful...and them resenting you for resenting them.

See the loop?

Since you didn't experience this with your parents...I wonder why you are doing this with your H? Because you him to act like your parents and he's not, maybe?

How about the truth...you don't know if he's interested in knowing you or not...that's a DJ. He may have said he wasn't interested once...doesn't mean today. And he maybe DJing you right back, not sharing because he doesn't believe you're interested...only in his feelings, his failures to meet your ENs...not his thoughts, beliefs, perceptions, perspective. Don't do to others that which you don't want done to you, either.

Why not share your thoughts, "I've been working on my resentment and I was really stunned to find out human create their own resentments...and I don't get it yet, but I will. How's your chicken? Do you like the basil?"

I believe Ark was saying don't blame your feelings..."I'm feeling blue because you didn't; because you did" loop. I want you to share your ownership...your excitement (and I pray you'll be getting that signal soon)...your SELF...not your self-image.

I always share light-bulbs as fast as I can...so does my DH. Of course, we don't judge one another...or judge the wattage of the light bulb that went off. We listen and repeat. Doubles our delight...just as it halves our pain.

Not dependent on the others' response. The act of sharing does this.

"How does a person acknowledge their feelings without acting on them? Is it as simple as saying to yourself, that hurt my feelings and made me feel unimportant? What next?"

Nope, that's only half. YOUR feelings were hurt. Why? Trace it? Know it's origin, break it apart and find the belief it's coming from...and if your own darn assumption is causing that pain...or half of the pain. Until you KNOW you are important, equal, valuable and whole...NO ONE ON THIS EARTH CAN MAKE YOU FEEL UNIMPORTANT.

I believe because you discount so often, you feel discounted often.

I know I did.

"I share with my H, but I definitely seek his approval, acceptance, reaction, etc."

Why do you permit yourself and choose to seek his approval (acceptance is NOT approval), reactions, etc.?

How's that working for you?

"I told him thanks a lot and threw up a wall. Not the most productive way to handle, but I was shocked, hurt and 22."

What would you choose to say now, if you replayed that statement from back then? Not to say now, in real life.

Oh, no...partnership is NOT 50/50...that's a trigger phrase I finally figured out that my DH experienced as rage. He HATED that phrase...50/50...and I saw nothing wrong with it. I persisted with it for years (being right) instead of partnering my DH, and understanding.

Me measuring, judging his 50 was what triggered him. Smacked of his mother...constant judgment...focus on him, not her half of their relationship. I followed right in her footsteps.

Partnering is 100% of my half...and that takes my focus, my perspective...awareness of me living up to my own code. And I live his half to his...it's his, anyway. No judgment needed.

"Shouldn't a marriage have passion, desire, comfort, acceptance, etc? Or is that expecting too much?"

Are you passionate about your acts of love? Are you comforted that your H is in your corner...that he's there, parenting with you (not against you), working for his family, being your best friend (which is what you designate him as, not that he earns); are you accepting all that he is, what he does, as his choice, his acts of love? I'm saying that expecting what YOU want, in the way you want it, when you want it is too much. That's you setting conditions for feeling loved...when you know you ARE already loved. Knowing your own passion takes your focus on you...not him.

"Believe me, I want those things in my marriage, I just do not know how to get them there. Which I am sure you and everyone else is telling me how to do just that, but I am not getting it."

You haven't understood your power yet. I believe you will. You're asking the questions, you have the desire and you're acting on it. Do you acknowledge your own passion for a passionate marriage? Are you checking to act from love, not to earn it?

The huge changes in our lives do not come from overhauls, drastic behavioral changes...they result from tilting your head three inches to the left...and then everything looks different...which leads to you experiencing everything in a new way.

And these are the cliff notes! LOL

LA

Hey LA. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond, crazy at work, but I have been thinking about everything you have said.


I guess I expect him to be truthful because he is my H and we should be able to count on that. To me, it's sad if it would be in my best interest to just assume my H isn't telling the truth. Why I continue to believe he tells me the truth 100% of the time when he doesn't is because I want to be able to count on his honesty. I don't want to have to worry about it.

Feeling disrespected makes me feel like he can not depend on me and that I am not important enough to have the truth. So I guess it does feel like I am being rejected in ways.

If that isn't it, then why does he lie to me, especially over little unimportant things, like playing golf?


There is a pattern. I misunderstood what you were asking. I thought you were talking about when he lied, not what he was lying about.


I have not brought it up since that night. When he said that, I just said thanks a lot, in a sarcastic way, and built up a wall.

I took his comment as how he saw me, with a poochy tummy. I didn't think my tummy was all that bad, but his comment certainly made me feel very uncomfortable around him. Like later that night when he wanted me to bare that same tummy in front of him and be comfortable and sexy for him.

Do I think he found me sexy then? Sure. However, his comment made me feel he didn't find my tummy all that attractive.

How am I suppose to take a comment like that? How am I suppose to be comfortable baring that same tummy to him and feel attractive? I may hve felt my tummy was sexy as ******, but he obviously thought it could be better. How do I feel comfortable with that, and not hurt?


I have no idea.


My thoughts about all of this are based on his actions and words. He left me alone to take care of myself, my child and to handle whatever was going on at the time as if nothing was going on. He told me I had nothing to be depressed about and to get over it as if that were the answer.

As for the county club membership, I don't think that has as much to do with his fear of failure as it does with his love of golf.

I don't mind the country club membership. As a matter of fact, that came into play years before I went to IC. My point was he thinks spending that much money each month so he can play golf is acceptable, but me spending money on therapy is a waste of money. Okay, so that's his truth. What do I do?


I have always seen our money as "our" money. And I thought he did to until the comment about "his" money paying for therapy.


I get this, believe it or not. I expected him to be supportive and understanding, but he wasn't. So how should I have handled that conversation? Say back to him, what I am hearing is that you don't believe I am depressed and therefore I will be wasting our money in IC. Then what?


He acknowledged that I told him, but then dismissed it as untrue and/or unimportant. I told him that I was sorry he didn't understand this, but IC was very important to me and I was still going. He didn't "okay" payment for my IC. I went/go and I wrote/write the check. From time to time, he still makes comments about how much it costs.


No. I am just learning these, just started HN/HN.


Yes.


I think they are doable. Having just started HN/HN, I feel that my need for affection isn't being met, unless it is a precursor to sex.


What is feeling known?


I believe his acts of love, involving DS,FS, FC, get into my love bank because I don't believe I could stay in the M if they weren't. With the exception of FS, I did not like what little FC my father provided to my mother and even less DS. I knew I wanted more of a partnership in that area than I saw in my parents' M. And I know I have way more than she did.


I honestly don't know. I don't think he is sharing anything but surface stuff, but then I'm realizing how completely lost I am right now.

So your boundary of respect is to clarify and confirm what he is saying? And in doing this, your H felt safer to be more open with you?


I can see why I don't find them as my top EN's because they are being met and I don't "worry" about them. I have often said my H and I are great partners, which I am sure is because these EN's are being met. My problem is in that specialness that makes the husband/wife relationship unique and intimate from other relationships.


I definetly act to earn. I show love for my H to him hoping he will notice it and notice me. I do things for my H because I love him, but I am also hoping for a response, something in return.


So when my H lies to me, I should let him know how it made me feel but not judge him on it? Like when I ask what he did today and he tells me about what he did at work, but leaves out that he left at noon and played golf the rest of the day. I find out and feel he is hiding things from me, which makes me wonder what else he is hiding from me. Do I share that with him?


Believe it or not, I think this may have gotten through the curtains. If my feelings get hurt by something my H says, I am responsbile for that. I need to take my own inventory to see why it hurt me. And should also repeat back to him what I heard him say in order to clarify. Do I also let him know how that made me feel? Going back to the whole honeymoon/tummy thing. If I said to him that what I heard him saying is that my tummy is a problem for him, what next? He either says yes or no, but that comment is still out there. How do I not let it make me feel bad?

I'm going to stop right here because this has gotten so long, so I will continue on another post. Also, I have to do a little work right now.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time and energy to walk me through this. You and others have been very helpful to me and I really appreciate it.

Lemme go right to the tummy...

You had choices. In answer to what he said, you could have shared "Now I feel defective." And when it came time to make love, you wore something to cover your tummy...not for him, for you. A boundary. "I cherish my body. I'm not defective. I don't appreciate you telling me what I have to work on. I'm okay with not showing you my tummy for awhile until I work this out in myself."

When you take his OPINION over your own TRUTH, you will have this dilemma, this incredible, lasting pain...and you will continue to see it's all him...instead of YOU taking it over your OWN knowledge.

For instance...I was thrilled with my eyes...loved having them and what they look like all my life...my DH? Not so much. Wasn't his wow point at all...other stuff was...does that mean my eyes aren't wow? They are to me. The other stuff he liked? Well, that's his taste.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How MARVELOUS is it that he loves the other stuff I waffle on...I don't need him to fall into my eyes and take a swim...I know this now. You're trying to wrestle your H's opinions to be different, supportive, to define you as you want to be defined...tells you who you are. That is a horrendously painful road, Ruby. Where he is so powerful, he can't even tell you the truth of where he's been...for every choice defines you...even when it's about him.

You said these curtains parted, so I may have over restated. Wouldn't be the first time. Again, I'm longing for you to see your part, your choices, your own healing...just as you said...where you own and trace your feelings...discover your OWN definitions...so you can hear H's opinions...share in his stuff...without making it what it cannot be.

And hurting, feeling anger from the hurt...

What next? Whatever he says is about him...his opinions, his thoughts...and look to those Bradshaw books...because knowing your H lies (by omission or direct) and choosing to resent him for doing what he does because of a role he has instead...he's a human being, like you. Up to you to know what he does (if he scratched his head and got dandruff on you while you watched tv every night...would you persist in fantasy to think he "shouldn't" rather than what he actually does? When we give our power to others, we then use fantasy to create false power..."Well, you shouldn't do this or you should do that" just obfuscates reality. We totally miss...This is what I do...This is what he does. Or doesn't.

Cutting out reality or twisting it is not advisable for a healthy, thriving life. Please believe me when I say, I was this way...

Resentment is full of shoulds and should nots...from life shouldn't be this way to he should be this other way. Resentment feels like false power, rightness...being right.

You won't know what he would have answered about the tummy...you didn't clarify or confirm. You haven't faced your part of the belief (and again, totally understandable reaction for back then...NOT for now).

Find your own boundaries, your code to live by...not based on possible response...when you hold yourself to your own perceptions and choices...you WILL thrive, with or without your H. I prefer with...because for all the power you've shoved down his throat for years, he's still there. He chooses to stay, to love you deeply, even as he's drowned in your reactions, responsible for all your feelings, perceptions and perspectives...he's still there.

And you, are, as well. Each day you have chosen to be married...to be half of your marriage. Make yours thrive.

LA

Back again.


Exactly, I stopped sharing with him because of his response. I got tired of being hurt by the sighs, the get over it comments, the cost comments or just the plain dis-interest. If that is making him my master, then yes, although I see it as protecting myself. I don't see how I can be close to him and share myself with him when he continues to make these comments. I don't feel safe sharing with him. They are like arrows to my heart or slaps to my face, so I don't share with him anymore to protect myself.

If that is wrong, then what do I do? Do I tell myself that is his truth, and ignore? Do I say that I hear you saying that you don't understand depression or why I would be depressed because you feel like life is good? Then what? Do I say okay, accept that that is his truth and accept that he is not the person who will give me a shoulder to lean on about this?


Yes, he did acknowledge that I think I am depressed. He did not react the way I wish he would have. So, I accept this, but I also realize he is not going to be my soft place when I need it for this. What do I do next?


I honestly don't know. He doesn't say one way or the other.


I don't know if this makes a difference but I didn't experience this myself with my parents, but I imagine I saw my parents experiencing it with each other.

Funny you mention how I want him to act like my parents but doesn't. I was just thinking about this not long ago. I do not feel like I am very special to my H. I don't think he hates me or anything like that, but I don't feel cherished, worried about, cared for by him. I question his feelings for me, his love for me. I realized I want him to show his love for me the way my parents did/do. I feel cherished, worried about and cared for by my parents, I don't by him.


He has not said straight out that he isn't interested in knowing me. When I try to share with him, he sighs, tells me I'm wrong to feel/think that way, walks away while I am still talking, stares at me with this vacant look. There isn't much interaction. It's usually me talking and him just waiting until I'm done.

He may feel the same way, but I have voiced to him that I want him to be able to come to me, I want to be his safe place, and I hope he knows I am here for him to share with me.


I have done this also and got the eye roll, "ughh" responses. I've also gotten comments such as why are you even worrying about this stuff.


To me, his approval is acceptance of me and I makes me feel loved.


Hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean about am I passionate about my acts of love.

Do I feel comforted that he is in my corner because he is here parenting with me, working to help support our family? No, I think he is being responsible. I have nothing to do with this. As for my friend? No, we get along as friends, have fun together, work well together but I don't trust him with what is in my heart anymore. I don't feel loved because of who I am but because I am the one who just happens to be there.


I'm not sure what you mean by the first question.

How do I check to act from love and not to earn it?

Sorry this one was so long too.

Believe it or not, I really am getting a lot out of this. Thank you so very much.