OK - I'm here - sorry - been a busy day. I will go and read all.

I apoligize to lilsis - I in no way was trying to derail your thread. I have been following it a while and have read just about all of it and it is a ****** of a long thread !

Some quick answers from lilsis thread.

A) I am not nor have ever been a wayward spouse.
B) I am married 2nd time and we have five kids that live with us 100% of the time aged 7 to 17. All 5 were "abandoned" by their other parent as in no contact.

and C) Sat down asking a 10 year old how he felt about his father leaving his Mom and the house and bassically asking (my interpretation) if he felt sorry for her ? Ummm... wow. Is that something people here agree with ?

In short, waywards make their own beds. If they want to right the wrongs they have done short of saving the family then they can begin to. It takes recognition of the disaster they have caused, the hurt the emotions they have wrought from undeserving others, it takes repentance, remorse, change.

Short of any of that the relationship they have with the children is their responsibility. I would not be the "builder of the R". They created this mess and how they make it up to the children is all on them (of course it really can never be made up). Being arrogant, entitled (because someone donated an egg or sperm)involving the very person who helped destroy the family and expecting kids to be okay with that is lunacy and entitlement, they don't care about anyone's feelings but their own.

I read the questions wrong...

I don't see where she asked her 10 yo if he felt sorry for her. She isn't that kind of mom.

notashoped, could you clarify this a bit? I am not understanding the question. My brain is set on SLOW today...

Is this what you are referring to here? See quote below:



She is not asking if they feel sorry for her. My kids were not happy with their dad during his waywardness b/c they saw how much he was hurting me and them. Kids are protective of their parents, especially their moms. There is nothing wrong with her asking them their feelings.

She did not tell them how to feel, she did not bad mouth him to taint the way they feel...

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that conversation.

I had a mom that wanted us to feel sorry for her and hate our dad, believe me the things she would say to my sister and I are nowhere near what LS has said to her kids.

"I asked them, very openly, if they felt badly about their dad because of how he has hurt me, or if they themselves felt hurt in any way" She wrote this on her thread today. I find this very leading to say to rather small kids and unfair. What were they supposed to say ? "No mom - we think he did the right thing" ? Personally I feel it is inapropriate to ask the kids ANYTHING about how they feel about how thier dad treated their mom. It really isn't appropriate adult and kid conversation.

I think some people over dramatize. The kids' life is ruined ! is a bunch of bull. It is different - not ruined. Just because one parent is betrayed does not mean the children have to be. Sure it will effect them, but kids are resiliant and with positive reinforcement and support can weather the storm and do just fine. 50% of the kids alive these days are from divorced families. The kids *can* survive it and even prosper AND have a relationship with BOTH parents. Expecting and asking kids to pick sides is poor parenting in my opinion. IMO the best thing for the kids is to try to promote the relationship with the other parent.

I see here it is popular to tell kids that their mother or father is making poor choices and hurting us - in effect badmouthing and slamming the other parent to the kids. I don't think that is healthy for anyone and boarders on PAS but it is just my opinion.

Have you been a betrayed spouse? If no, then you really cannot "get it". There is nothing short of having been betrayed and treated like a plague by the one you swore to love and honor that will change you. There is nothing like seeing this person you loved and who said they loved you morph into someone you don't recognize and then blame you for it. To rather be getting their own needs met, selfish desires met and to replace the entire family, children included with the "feeling" they get from the OP. Until you've been there and done this then your opinion on this particular matter will have a hard time reconciling with those of us who have been there.

Hope he doesn't mind but double ditto frognomore - that first post was right on the nomey IMO

nomey ? oops - money

Not,
Children ought to be taught what is right and wrong. If this A behavior is not labelled as wrong then these children will assume that it is ok behavior to just leave their family for an OP.

They NEED to KNOW this is wrong. Don"t cha think?

What if the H was in jail for committing a crime? Should kids not know that their parent made a poor choice and it was wrong?

To quote Pep

Egg Zak Lee!!!!

What does being a betrayed spouse or a betraying spouse have to do with making appropriate and emotionally healthy decisions regarding the kids ?

My only point was/is I think lilsis needs to filter and be careful what she says about her sons father to them. She can do a lot of unnecessary damage IMO by having adult discussions about things that really aren't appropriate for the kids and make them feel like their father is a bad person. I think she should avoid that. Think about it in reverse - if their dad was telling them about faults their mother has. Would that be appropriate or healthy for the kids ?


I guess I kind of was betrayed by my first wife but by the time it happened I already knew we were done and was preparing to file for divorce so actually I didn't care all that much. Did piss me off for a few days but then I realized what did it matter ? - we were already done. My ex was so kind as to get pregnant during the divorce and claim it was mine so she could use the insurance. She and I both knew for sure it wasn't. She ended up loosing it at 5 months so I didn't end up having to go thru the paternity stuff.

In short yes I do. My Mother chose to file because my father was an alcoholic adulterer.

Shacking up with a sales person from his business. She became my Stepmom.

Yes to all of your answers. But my dad did not abandon me. It truly sucked but my Mom still took the higher ground.

Today knowing what I now know I respect her even more.

She took the higher ground.

LILsis, You are taking the higher ground.

I would have no problem telling my kids when they were old enough why we got D'd

I would say your mom/dad was having an extamarital affair with your step mom. I didn't like the idea of staying with your mom/dad while they were dating. I asked for him/her to chose me and the family he decided to go with her instead.

But it is kinda like the birds and the bees gotta know how much to give them and when.

MicheleG - I acually agree with that but it needs to be age appropriate. Is discussing affairs with kids the ages of lilsis and WH age appropriate ? Not in my opinion. 14 or so fine - but not early elementary school kids.

The difference here is that what Lil Sis is saying is the TRUTH. She isn't telling them that he is a bad person... she's saying he's making BAD choices. Big difference.

Why should she teach them that what daddy's doing is okay? THAT would be inappropriate and unhealthy.

If her WH was telling the boys about her faults... it would be him trying to excuse his actions... His kids would see right through that BS.

So lemme ask ya... is daddy having an affair appropriate and healthy for the kids?

PM of course not.

Nobody would argue that point. So if daddy/mommy are ripping the family apart with an A we should tell the kids?

Age appropriate is what makes sense.

My FWW and I were arguing over radical honesty after the A.

My kids knew we were fighting. I didn't walk out and say well don't be mad at me mommy slept with OM and that is why we are fighting.

My kids are 11 and 7. When my kids ask about sex I tell the 11 year old something different then the 7 year old.

None of this nonsense is good for the kids. So let try to mitigate the damage.

I don't care what the other person does. I can control myself my actions and my decesions.

I chose not to involve my kids in it.

Frog,

Did your wife leave? I think it may be quite different when the WS leaves. Because in fact they are abandoning thier family.

Still

SH,

No she didn' and if she did, unless she moved across the country or disappeared from the face of the earth I wouldn't tell my kids they were abandoned.

My father basically chose to leave. Like I said my Mom never said my Dad left us or abandoned Us. She made it clear it was between them and them only.

They are not abandoning their family. They are walking away from a BS.

The family will never be the same. But the parent child relationship still exists.

I just don't see how telling a child their parent abandoned them makes sense.

Tell them why the D if they are old enough. Be honest but to say daddy abandoned you.

Abandon-1. to leave completely and finally; forsake utterly; desert:

I can't see how this definition fits unless he never sees the kids again or talks to them again.

Again I am not taking the WS side here i am merely stating if my FWW decided to leave me for OM. I wouldn't ever tell my kids my FWW abandoned them.

Nope nada never ever ever. They would hurt enough I don't need to add to it by making them feel like they had anything to do with the M ending.

Because by saying that they may think if daddy/mommy abandoned me maybe I am the reason they left.

Frog,

I don't tell my kids they were abandoned either. I am saying that here. My kids are telling me their father abandoned them!

I would tell them WH left me and they came right back and said no he left all of us. My kids are older than yours.

Frog... I know my WH doesn't feel he abadoned his kids... the only child he see routinly is DS. DD gets 2-5 minutes phone calls a few times a week. She also doesn't wish to speak to him or visit his wh*re house (her word not mine)
He is the adult and needs to prove himself more to DD, I can tell DD till I'm blue in the face that I know her dad loves her.... actions speak much louder than words.

I just wanted to clear up I haven't told my kids he abadoned them (I'm saying it here) because i feel he has abadoned all of us. But I don't express that to my kids.

Still

the ADULTEROUS parent is usually the one who pushes their kids (even little tiny ones) to meet and get to know and "like" their "nice person" ADULTERY partner

and the betrayed parent is usually the one who is left with the task of explaining this to the confused little ones