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Joined: Aug 2005
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Ditto what Mr.W. said.

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....so how is your Plan A going?

getting ready for Plan B?

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Did they meet at a swinger's club?

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I donno.....

but I had forgotten that this man came here with a pretty messy marriage in distress .... and he need to refocus in that direction

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chachanges said:

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Like many others here that I have seen over the years, the swinging and open marriages became a way to fix a marriage in trouble. It's crazy I know but I am not the only one. I think it starts with the distancing and loss of emotional intimacy that occurs when our needs are not being met. You are afraid to leave, fixing it seems so difficult, and you somehow you think you just need some excitement.

This next part is going to be difficult to understand. When you finally cross over that line to swinging its as if you are closer than you have ever been. You feel like you have the most honest relationship in the world because you can actually have sex with others and talk about. You feel unique, immune to any affairs, and special. Its a complete illusion but the illusion seems real.

This illusion of the perfect marraige lasts until there is a problem. Someone "forgets" to tell the other person about a phone call or an email. Suspicions start, but you are told that jealousy is normal in the lifestyle and its your problem to deal with. You find out when you were out of town that your wife decided it was ok to see someone. Your feelings about this are dismissed because you were a willing participant and somehow you agree that you really never got around to figuring out what the rules are. You try to set some rules and boundaries but by then it's too late. You are told by the swinging crowd that as long as there is honesty you don't need rules. Anything goes as long as you tell each other about it. You are told you are too controlling and demanding. She says "I don't think I want to stop just because you say so, but I will, but reluctantly"

This becomes the big lie. She doesn't stop and just continues underground. It becomes a full blown affair and you feel like its 100% your fault because you were a swinger.

So the fantasy world you both created comes crashing down for the person that wakes up out of this insane fog. Exposure ineffective in my case and in fact enabled her to continue. The only truth was between me and God.

If I were to do it all over again I would leave the past swinging history behind and expose the affair for what it is in this moment - adultry, cheating, and betrayal. If my WW wants to blame it on swinging, she should be the one to try to convince everyone that she was the victim. I would have never lost the support of family and friends if I just exposed the affair and not the swinging. Big mistake. Big lesson for others to learn. These things ARE different.

The second big lesson is don't waste your time in Plan A. The WS needs an immediate, strong wake-up call to snap them out of this fog. Draw the new monogamous marriage boundary and go to Plan B directly without passing Go. Give them a Plan B letter, shut the door, wait, and pray. Use the threat of exposing the swinging activities as leverage to get them out of the house. No one wants to be exposed as swinger. It's a lot more difficult and embarrassing to explain that you are a swinger than just having an affair. Look how MB treats swingers on here. They are lepers of the worst kind.

So when I suggested a special topic area for recovering from open marriages, this is what I had in mind. Lessons learned and a moderated place for the BS to go without the stonings. A place of grace for those that made some terrible choices in their life.


It does sound messy. There was a poster on here a few months ago who had gotten (forced) his wife into drugs. She had an A with a junkie and left BS. BS then gave up drugs and wanted WW to give up drugs and come back to him. I wonder what happened to that guy? If the WW is addicted to swinging, wouldn't that person have to give up swinging first (kill the addiction)? Or is this person simply wanting WW to give up secret swinging and go back to "normal" swinging?

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Can you tell me who, as a mature adult, would think the following is true?

Quote
You are told by the swinging crowd that as long as there is honesty you don't need rules.


This is a really silly way to run one's marriage .... because "you don't need rules" cannot be applied to how people function in the real world:

BUSINESS: "It's OK if you don't show up for meetings as long as you are honest about it."

BANKING: "It's OK if you overdraw your account as long as you are honest about it."

PARENTING: "It's OK if you cheat on your test at school, as long as you are honest about it."

TRAFFIC COURT: "It's OK for you to drive drunk and speed as long as you are honest about it."

FAMILY: "It's OK for you to hit our son across his face with a belt as long as you are honest about it."

The "swinging crowd" are either

A. Incredibly stupid

or

B. Really want to have sex without rules so they just make up garbage that makes rutting like dogs in heat sound noble.

or

C. (fill in the blanks)


What I am saying is .... people going into this "lifestyle" are NOT THINKING ABOUT CONSEQUENCES .... they are not doing it to better themselves or bring something of VALUE to society .... they want to hump & bump and not feel bad about it, so they will submit to insanity for the sake of orgasisms.

And it takes a large dose of narcissism to think that "rules do not apply to me because I am better than most normal people. I am special enough to not need rules."

Then, when they get burned by their own choices they cry:

NOT FAIR ! I want some rules here so I don't get hurt. I want to agree to some rules that YOU follow so I don't get hurt. I want Plan A or Plan B, but I do not want a TRADITIONAL marriage that follows the rules of society. "

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