Oh gosh Jin, I really didn't mean to imply that you're playing games. I should have realized that my comment about "mind games" might have segued awkwardly into my last post. I don't think you're doing that at all, intentionally or not. When I said that, I was only trying to qualify MY statement that seeing a little jealousy from him could be a good thing for YOU, even if you didn't engineer it. Is that a little clearer?

However, I would like to suggest that now or soon it might be time to develop a more cohesive and proactive strategy w/re to your XH. I wanted to illustrate and highlight a couple of things that you posted that suggest.... Not necessarily contradiction, but thoughts that might not compliment one another.

A dual-layered approach to getting your intentions through to your XH isn't necessarily a bad idea. It might be effective if done in a conscious and deliberative manner. Does that make more sense?

I think your target date of post-vacation is right on, but you might want to start planning now based on the possibility that he comes back and announces it's over between him and GF. Any other result should be a plan focusing on you moving on IMO.

I didn't take your comments out of context - I think I heard them as you intended - in helpfulness <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So no worries - and I wasn't trying to be defensive. Sometimes written word doesn't come across as intended - and I did not mis-read you. Hope you didn't mis-read me either. In fact, I greatly appreciate all your input into my situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to clarify that I didn't steer the situation - it just came up and I took a couple of opportunities to say things that may not have come up otherwise without it being obvious if I did bring them up out of the blue. Know what I mean?

Yes, I do think the jealousy bit was a VERY good thing for me - and quite unexpected. Mainly because there's nothing there between the customer and me, besides the fact that we get along well. It never crossed my mind that anybody could or would misconstrue it as anything else. He's a happily married man with 4 kids. He works in the same industry I worked in prior to my current line of work, and sometimes he and I will laugh about his work stuff etc. But having said that I'd never be interested in him in "that way" even if he were single. He's a nice man, but not my type, and I'm quite sure I'm not his type either.

If XH didn't care either way - he wouldn't have made mention of it at all - or he just would have said matter-of-factly that so-and-so was coming. Even if he didn't know the customer's name (which he probably doesn't remember), he'd say something like, "That guy whose tank had problems is coming in again."

So yes, I think the little bit of jealousy I picked up on is a good thing - it's telling. I do think I did the right thing by letting him know that it's not what he may have thought, because I don't want to play that game. However in XH's mind, it might be a good thing that it tweaked a bit of jealousy, even if I canceled it for him - it might put him in touch with his own feelings just a tad bit more.

Everything happens for a reason, right?

And I agree that post-vacation is the way to go. However if he does end it with the GF I don't necessarily expect him to come and tell me about it. He might, he might not, depending on how safe he feels in that. He told me when she dropped the bomb, and he was well received on that. But he may be worried that if I know he's single again that I'll put the moves on him and if he's not ready for that (which he won't be right away), he may keep it to himself. I'm observant, I'll figure it out.

I don't know how much "planning" is practical to do. If/when it does end with GF, it's not like he'll be ready to come home the next day, the next week, or even at all. He's going to need some time to grieve, as we all do when a relationship ends, whether it was good or bad. He's still got some work to do on himself. The balance will be letting him know that he's still loved and wanted without pushing him to do anything he's not ready for.

If/when we ever do get to that point where we can explore a reconciliation, it won't be an overnight thing either. I'd want us to date for a while, see how it goes, perhaps some MC to iron out any leftover issues that may exist... it's going to be a process *if* it is meant to happen.

Having said that though, I'm open to suggestions as to how to take my cues, if they should present themselves.

JinGA

I'm glad that we can be on the same page. As far as any planning goes, I merely suggest something in between total seat of the pants and a detailed syllabus outlining your moves minute by minute.

Hope that clears it up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Clear as mud. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't think I can come up with any kind of set plan. Other than I'm still working my Plan A and 180. The rest will have to come intuitively I think.

And as to your earlier comments about moving on if things aren't ended with GF after his vacation - rest assured, my life does go on - even now. I'm not looking for a mate, other than my XH. But the rest of my life is quite full, and I'm not putting it on hold to see how this turns out. Rather, if it does turn out, it will be one more good thing added to my life which is pretty good now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have fun with my kids, I go out with my (married) friends, I socialize and have fun. I can't live my life based on what might happen with him. He's one part of my life that I'd like to resume/reconcile, but if it isn't meant to, yeah I'll have feelings to process, but life *will* continue. I think that's the healthiest way to approach any relationship. It's a choice, not a life-or-death need.

JinGA

I reread a bit and you sound clear on your course and that's probably all you need. As long as YOU don't feel confused about what to do, then you'll find a way to communicate what you need to at the proper time.

Yep - I think that's where I'm at now - after flailing around for a while.

He didn't stop by today. I saw him drive by on his way home from work, but he didn't stop in. That's ok I close in an hour and we're about to get a big storm, so it's no biggie.

He's stopped by the last couple of Fridays, but it wasn't his habit to do so before. Lots to do here tomorrow and hopefully my other occasional help will come in too.

Power is flickering here... I should best get offline. I was going to take the kids out to dinner tonight but if the weather is ugly perhaps we'll just stay home and do it tomorrow night instead. I thought XH wanted the kids this weekend but he never said. Maybe he'll take them tomorrow night - or not... I'm just kind of going with the flow right now.

JinGA

Uneventful day. XH is sort of back to being distant. He did his thing today, I did mine. It's not tense or anything - it's just "not" anything.

Although at one point we were talking to a couple getting deeper into the hobby and we were laughing about how we all got started - I came home with a 2-gallon fish tank and 2 goldfish... and XH said, "And look at us now!" (4500 gallons of tanks and a retail store!) And it's true - the store is "us".

Sometimes it is *so* hard to be so close to him, yet so far away. I'm glad we still have this huge thing in common - something that his GF never appreciated. She was never into the "fish thing". He brought her in to help a couple of times when she first arrived - he had her cleaning tanks - but that only lasted one or two sessions *g*. Then he'd bring her daughter in to pass time and get underfoot most weekends - that was last year.

It's hard to stay in this holding pattern - waiting for the other shoe to drop. Trying to be patient and let God do His thing, as I know He will - He has a plan for us all, and I just have to keep the faith that all will work out as it's meant to. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will be what I'm wanting right now - but it will be whatever I need.

That's what keeps me going at times.

JinGA

I hear you about the close yet so far away thing. I know exactly what that's like.

But a holding pattern is what you've committed yourself to you know. At least until this possible vacation of his comes and goes.

Can you give yourself some kind of a short term project to do until his expected return? Something to occupy your mind and your time for the next 4-6 weeks?

Oh I've got plenty to keep me busy - work, kids, friends, housework, hobbies.... as I said, life continues.

I just feel like one *part* of my busy life is "on hold". Of course if I found out today that R was impossible, it wouldn't change life as it is now, except I'd have to come to terms with my feelings.

If I found out that R was possible, a bit would change - but not the basics - but I'd like to think that things would be "enhanced"...

In the end I'll be no worse off than I am now. So meanwhile I'll just keep eyes and ears open and wait for the right cues.

JinGA

I think it is important you re-read this:

HERE

because with both of you in withdrawl ... the distance will grow

YOU need to provide this situation with

(********) <~~~ GUESS what this 8 letter word is !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

before you can reasonably expect movement

just a friendly suggestion <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Intimacy?

I've re-read those sections again - and I had read them again in the past week or so before this.

I'm trying not to withdraw. I'm working to stay in Giver mode, even though XH appears to be firmly in Taker mode. He has been on-again-off-again as far as emotional distance, and he's not been as forthcoming with his "accidental" filling of my EN the last week or two.

I'm committed to staying in Giver mode - via Plan A. But the article you referenced also states that a spouse in withdrawal doesn't necessarily register love bank deposits if their defenses are up.

I'm still trying to make them anyway - I won't be daunted by that. The last few days the only LB deposit I can safely make is admiration - expressing appreciation directly to him for things he's done around the biz, and to clients, with him present... "Yes, XH did that - didn't he do a great job?" when a client notices something.

He took DS last night so when I go to work shortly I'll ask how things went with him - and I will express appreciation for his handling that situation (assuming that he's handled it - I think he probably has).

I'm wide open to other suggestions.... and thanks Pep for popping back in to my thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

no

intimacy is the goal

you are both in withdrawl

what stage must someone move throught to GET TO intimacy?

starts with a C

Conflict... that was my *other* guess.

Sometimes I think he's in a state of conflict, but it doesn't have anything to do with me - it's what do do about the GF. Often his actions (or inactions) appear to be influenced by that.

That is to say - if he's feeling like he's distancing from GF, he's more open with me. When he's feeling pressure or whatever from the GF (could be of his own doing too), he withdraws from me.

Sort of like an emotional tug-of-war. Unless you count how my Plan A may be contributing to his conflicted feelings, none of that really has to do with me.

So to initiate a state of conflict... how about that jealousy incident... was that "conflict"? I think it may have been.

So what would your suggestion be? I have spent so much time trying to prevent conflict <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know how to start a fight -but that's not what the intent of conflict is.

Help me, please, because while I understand what you're driving at - I'm not sure what I should be doing.

JinGA

I noticed.
Which is why I think *the state of conflict* is something you need to become not only more comfortable with .... but actually *use conflict* as a step toward intimacy

..... and guess what?

I am gonna be really MEAN to you and NOT advise you about how to construct the *useful conflict* .... because you are smart & you will do a much better job in your own life ... PLUS, I don't really know you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> well enough

*conflict* can come well-dressed, smelling good, laughing & smiling

do *something* UNexpected

do *something* pleasing

do *something* saucy

this will create conflict

Well sometimes I'm dumb and I need a neon sign and a roadmap - and it takes a smart person to admit that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As I type this I'm contemplating what new blouse to wear (I splurged and got a few)... normally at work I wear work-issue shirts (practical reasons - it's a dirty job) but sometimes on Sundays I wear something a bit dressier - because I have extra help (read: I can make somebody else get dirty)...

And I was doing that before your suggestion.

So because I'm a bit dense... you're suggesting (as others did with me very early on in this stage of my journey)... that I should create conflict within him by trying to be attractive to him? Looking good, smelling good... being attractive in what I do and say?

I've *been* doing that all along.

JinGA

You just posted as I was posting... so sorry if I appear to be behind a page (I likely am)!

JinGA

So if I'm understanding you correctly - the intent is not necessarily to cause *conflict* between us, but rather to cause some conflict within himself?

If I'm lookin' like all that and a bag of chips, being all that and a bag of chips, then he may start to second guess himself and his choices? If he feels some sort of attraction to me, then he'll feel guilty about it, as far as the GF goes?

Is that it, or am I off base?

I'm smart - but I'm dense at times <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Well I'm heading to work now... he may not notice the new blouse but I feel good in it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Others have noticed little changes I've made - hair etc (nothing drastic, just a good trim)... if he's noticed he hasn't said anything. But if that's what you were suggesting, I've been doing that for a couple of months now.

I'll check in after work - please keep the thoughts and suggestions coming.

JinGA

OK

think about HOW to do this before you launch "Plan C"

elements include:

-a situation that H would have an opinion about
-you open a discussion about that situation
-you purpously take the opposite opinion
-you make CERTAIN he experiences success within this conflict situation

create a conflict-situation where he comes out experiencing CONFLICT with YOU as [b]safe and productive