I feel like I'm back talking to myself here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That's OK it's good therapy for me to just get it out.

I emailed XH this morning about a few business things that need to be wrapped up before he leaves. I did not let on that DS had told me about the possible change in plans.

He replied telling me that he likely won't be leaving til mid July now. Seems he was expecting a bonus on the last pay that wasn't there, and now it's supposed to be on his pay on the 1st, so he'll leave mid-month.

That ruins any chance he'll have of taking the kids anywhere, because DD has band obligations beginning in mid July also (which leaves me holding the bag to pick-up and drop-off - thankfully her friend is in band too and her mom can help me), and school starts back up here at the beginning of August. So effectively, summer will be over for the kids by the time he gets back. So much for taking the kids camping or doing anything else meaningful with them. Tactfully, I told him as much. He said he couldn't do anything without money anyway (where *does* all his money go? He lives alone on more than 3 of us do...)

I asked him to keep me in the loop with dates - it's hard to schedule clients when I don't know when he's going to be here and when he isn't <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I wish he wouldn't go - but that's just unrealistic thinking on my part. He's he11-bent on going, so I guess he's going. Just not for another 4 weeks or so. Talk about dragging things out. Wish GF would give up waiting for him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (there I go with evil thoughts again!) He's just prolonging the inevitable anyway, and in doing so, he's losing the chance he could have had to spend a couple of weeks with his kids. Sad - they all lose.

So here I thought the vacation would be over with by early July, now it's not starting til after that. Not sure if that's good or bad. My frustration level is climbing. Perhaps I'm just wishing for things that will never happen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'm discouraged. It's hard to know what you want when the other person is so oblivious to it. If he was being a complete @$$ it would be easy to just throw in the towel and give up - and a part of me wants to do that, but a part of me just can't give up yet.

I wish I could just tell him that I don't want him to go, that I want him to come *home* (figuratively at first), and that we love him and want and need him here. But if I did that it would likely send him running in the opposite direction. I want to fight for him but I don't know how. I'm doing Plan A very well, implementing POJA and he's being receptive to it. It's like he's on the edge of seeing things for how they could be between us, but the GF is blocking his view <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What to do now? I'm going to just keep on Plan A'ing, but once his ticket is bought, he's not going to cancel.

Maybe the company will screw up his bonus again! (That happened back in February and he ended up borrowing from a co-worker til it came through...)

Meanwhile I keep plugging away in the trenches at the business - no vacation for me, no bonus - not even very much to look forward to as I wait to hear when he's going to make that trip. Ugh.

Somebody 2x4 me and snap me out of my funk... please?

JinGA

Jin - You are not talking to yourself. It's just that your situation hasn't changed dramatically yet. Seems like you're in the same holding pattern waiting for him to make the next big move.

Some things that you are saying now give me reason to pause and wonder. You know that his plans changed but you were waiting for him to say something about it first. Why?

You ponder where all of his money is going. I have a guess. I think you do too. It also might explain why the GF is keeping him on the hook.

He is totally screwing up his chance to spend time with his kids in order to go see her. I suspect that he would say that it's your fault for not letting them go, but since your DD has prior commitments during his timed departure anyway, that argument is moot.

I see this man who is willing to jump through hoops to spend time with a skanky ho who treats him like crap and uses him, all while neglecting the people who want him around for the "right" reasons.

Again I have to ask myself, "Just WHY do you want this man in your life so much at this point?"

I don't get it Jin. What exactly is it that draws you to him?

Yep - or *I* make the next big move. I'm pondering that. In keeping with, "Everything happens for a reason" I'm wondering if this delay could be a good thing for me - IF I have the cajones to do anything about it. I could give him that letter I wrote back in April. I could ask to talk with him, tell him *exactly* what I'm feeling, and just put it out there *before* he books a ticket. At that point he'll either think about it and *maybe* consider it - OR he'll just shoot me down, take his trip and start making his moving plans <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Tipping my hand right now could either make things stop with the GF and turn his head, OR it will send him running screaming in the other direction (towards GF). I've been as obvious as I can be without putting "landing lights on the bedspread" as you put it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But it could well be that he's just not getting it.

It could be that he's being defensive because he does have the same feelings as I do but he's scared too - and thus he's hiding behind whatever remains of his relationship with the GF, because he sees that as his only choice right now.

I don't know. I'm dying inside because I know what I want to do, and fear is keeping me from it - because if I make myself vulnerable right now, I'm giving him the power to stomp all over my heart.

It would explain why he's declined social invitiations - if he still "feels" something for me but is afraid of what that means, he would be cheating on his GF.

Or he could just feel nothing at all and doesn't want to waste his time.

And I keep torturing myself with "what ifs".

If I did put it all out there, he takes off, then the R fizzles with the GF and he came back then, I don't think I'd feel too warm and fuzzy being second choice. Of course right now I am not a choice...ugh. I hate when I get in this mindset because I am my own worst enemy.


Well he'd have mentioned it at some point, likely tomorrow. I just beat him to the punch. I'm impatient that way. I learned from DS that plans had changed - and apparently they haven't been confirmed as of yet anyway - he may well have been waiting until he was sure himself before giving me more info that could have changed again. As of right now he's not got firm dates even now.


Yeah - I think we're both on the same page there. Sad that he *appears* to have to be buying her love.


Well it's a moot point now. We had come to an agreement that if he had extra vacation time, he could go back home with the kids - and I was fine with that. It still could happen over the Holidays or whatnot - it's just not going to happen this summer. Of course if he moves... well he's not going to move, I'm not 100% sure of that, but I don't think even he is that foolish - or he'd have done it or been making firm plans for that by now. Sooner or later something has to give.


Yep. That's the hardest part. I never treated him like that - although during the M I could have treated him better - I've grown up a lot and I've learned a lot about how to care for a marriage. I don't think he'd ever have accepted such treatment from me (and I wouldn't have done those things to him) - but he's desperate and lonely and perhaps he sees this as his only alternative right now.

I don't even know if he's fully aware of how I feel about him. Maybe it *does* take a neon sign and a roadmap - I know I can be dense at times. So I guess my question is - do I take the chance and just put it all out there and TELL him exactly how I'm feeling, and get it out there, once and for all? Then if he turns around, that's great - we move forward - and if not - then I have my answer and I just need to pick up the pieces and move on. That's where I've been since this whole thing started. It's nearly 3 months since I started posting my intentions and I'm still stuck in limbo.

I'm playing head games with myself now - something I've been trying hard *not* to do.

I just feel like I finally need to put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. Either he still sees hope, or he doesn't. Fog or no fog... maybe *I* need to be the one to send out a beacon.


I have had 20 years with this man - half my lifetime. I have 2 children, whom we both created and love and they are the product of the good in our marriage. I see things in him that others may not. In spite of all the crap - deep down he's a good man, and even now I see him trying to do right in the relationship that he's in. I didn't give him enough credit in the M, and I didn't stick by him 'in sickness' - partly because he didn't acknowledge it - but I still feel that I failed him in many ways.


Without skirting your question - I could ask the same of you, Seabird <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Why do you want to repair your marriage? I think we'd both come up with similar answers. We love them - they're flawed, imperfect, just as we are - but we love them and we want to make things right again. I don't know how else to put it.

I *could* email him and ask him to stop by the shop on his way home - we are closed today (no customers) and see if he's got a bit of time to talk. I'm not sure if I have the courage to do it - but depending on the feedback here I just might give it a try.

The worst he can do is say he sees no hope for us, ever, that GF is his soulmate, etc., and then I'll finally have my answer and life goes on and I can stop spinning my wheels.

It won't change how I feel about him but it would remove any uncertainty. At this point my biggest fear is rejection - but the pain of all this limbo has to be worse than that.

If I do it now, before he's bought his ticket, and before he's backed into a deadline to make a choice, it's not an ultimatum. He's still got a couple of weeks to make his travel plans, if he chooses to go forward with them, and then I'll put myself out of my misery. I'll place the ball firmly and clearly in his court, and then he's got time to think about it before he decides whether he still wants to travel out there - or not. If he decides against going out there, then we can talk about NC and those things that come along next, but at least he'll have some time to think about things before he makes his next decision.

Thoughts?

JinGA

I still say you should spill the beans and tell him how you feel. He's on the fence and showing signs he wants more with you but is somehow waiting for some big sign to be waved in by you and really run your way.

He's afraid of being alone. That's the impression I get. He'd rather have this crappy relationship than the solid one he could have with you if he knew how you felt. He doesn't, though. He doesn't know and he's afraid of letting go.

Why? It's beyond me. Who knows why he'd rather be with this OW but its likely he wants a full blown clear signal from you. YOU initiated the D. You may have to be the one to let him know that you're ok with him coming back.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks BD - that's the direct kind of feedback I need to hear (even if you thought I should just forget about him and move on).

I know *I* would feel moved if somebody wanted to fight for me - and at times he did fight for me, and sometimes I didn't see it.

I think that God has given me a reprive with this delay - in that I still have a chance to put it all out there, and he's got time to consider whether he wants to walk through that open door, OR go ahead with his plans with the GF.

I don't know why he's so drawn to her - loneliness and desperation seem like the only choices.

I've had more mixed signals than I can shake a stick at - yet he won't make that "move" even though I told him I still love him a month ago, and just last week in an email I told him I still care very much for him and I am on his side. For me those words would have been a neon sign - but perhaps he's not seeing it - or maybe he doesn't want to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I need a huge dose of courage right now - I still have the letter I wrote ages ago. I'm thinking that if I can work up the strength, later today I'll email and ask if he can meet me here at the shop (it's closed, there is a comfortable place to sit down - we've had many important discussions here), I'll go home and get fixed up and look nice (not over the top)... and bring the letter.

I'll give him the letter, let him read it, and depending on his reaction, *tell* him that I would like to ask him if there is still any chance at all for us, to think about it and let me know how he feels when he's had some time to think.

What do you think about that?

JinGA

Whatever works to get the message to him, but it has to be a clear signal.

I think this is a Mars/Venus things. The signs couldn't be clearer to you. They probably aren's so clear on his end and/or he's afraid he may mis interpret what he registers as warmth and friendship for more.

What do you have to lose? If he doesn't want to, then you took a weight off your shoulders and you can move on.

Stop right there. You are NOT giving him any power to stomp on your heart. You are being open and honest. The idea that keeping our feelings a secret somehow protects us is a myth. How "safe" do you feel right now having not come right out? You don't talk like someone that I think of as feeling safe and confident Jin.

Stop acting (or not acting) out of fear. Act out of love. I think that's what LA would say. It's what I am trying to learn to do now.

Some trying to read his mind. Stop pre-acting; anticipating what he MIGHT do, then reacting to it prematurely. Do what you feel is right. Do what you need to do to find peace and serenity.


Yes, that's what I meant. It seemed like you wanted to wait until he said something. I was wondering why, as soon as your DS mentioned his change in plans, you didn't pick up the phone and call him about it. Stop waiting for him to come to you.


Touche'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

In my case, I feel like my W is acting and behaving out of character. She is not the woman that I know and love right now. As LA and many others put it; a WS without the A. I want to be back with the woman I once knew, though with how she's acting regarding custody, I am not so sure about that anymore. She's doing a good job of driving me away from any hope or desire of being with her.

Back to you... I agree with BD. I think that it's time to lay it all out there and to stop torturing yourself. Even if you don't get the response that you want, at least you can find some sort of closure and you can move on. There really aren't any pieces to pick up at this point though, are there? Maybe a few still laying around from the D?

But really, think of it in objective terms. He's got a much better deal with you. Everyone knows this but him. Even his own brother thinks the choice is clear, right? If your XH fails to take advantage of that, then he doesn't deserve you or the kids. If you go total O&H, at least he'll never be able to say, "I didn't know".

BD is right. It's time to step into him.

You're right. I'm doing my best to think positively. The worst that can happen is he's going to say, "Not a chance" and then I will be forced to close that chapter of my life.

I'm trying to figure out what to say... I've got a couple of hours until I email him - to make sure I want to do this *now*. Today would be best - the store is open the rest of the evenings this week, and customers come and go - and he doesn't stick around until closing time - so it's awkward, particularly if I get emotional.

I have the letter. It tells him how I feel, that I ask him for forgiveness for all the past hurts, and for having hurt him. It also says I have no expectations - I just needed to get it out there, and if he wanted to talk about it, I'm here.

I'd give him the letter, let him read it, and then just tell him that that's how I feel, and if there's any chance for us, I'd like to try to work things out. I don't expect an answer right away - ask him to take this information, think about it, and then let me know when he's ready.

If it really catches him entirely by surprise, he may need some time to think about it and I'm ok with that. I don't expect him to come running into my arms (although that would be nice!) but it's likely not realistic.

I just feel like I'm at an impasse with myself at this point and I need to *do* something - even if it means shattering my dreams. If they do shatter, I've been wasting my time all the while anyway, right? Why waste any more precious time. Then I can go forward either working to repair my family - OR - repairing my heart for whatever else God has in store for me.

I'm almost there - almost to the point where I feel confident enough to ask him to stop by to talk tonight. Hopefully if I do work up the cajones, he doesn't say that he can't come (I don't know any reason why he couldn't unless he knows what's coming and runs the other way - then I'll have an answer too, right?)

JinGA

I'm not feeling safe and confident. I'm feeling weak and vulnerable. What I'm about to do is reveal my innermost feelings to a man who may reject them. That's scary, no matter how much logic I can apply to it. I'm telling myself that he either has feelings or he doesn't and it's not like he's going to beat me to a pulp for saying something - but he's either going to be receptive to it, or he's going to turn me down flat - and that is very frightening to me. Nobody likes to be hurt, nobody likes to be rejected. Then again - no risk, no gain, right? If he doesn't see things as I do, but he feels as I do, just as scared and vulnerable - well one of us has to be brave, it might as well be me, right?

I feel like if I make myself vulnerable, I will be giving my power away. I don't know how to be open and honest *without* giving up some of that power - because once the ball is in his court, it's out of my control, it's in his. No he doesn't control what I say or do or feel - but in giving him that opportunity to make it or break it - there's uncertainty. I need to get control of those feelings and reign them in or this will blow up in my face.


Thank you - I needed to hear that because it's pulling me back into reality.


I know - one of my worst flaws. Being a 'planner' I try to anticipate every possible outcome instead of just going with the flow. I'm working on it - but I'm not doing such a good job today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Well part of this has as much to do with the business as my personal feelings - I'm trying to keep all the balls in the air and for clients I need to know what I can plan and what I can't. I've got 3 going concerns here - my life as well as the business and the kids (not necessarily in that order).

[/quote]

Well XH did a good job at driving me away - we drove each other away and that's why we are where we are - but as I can attest, things can change - it just depends on how the rest of life plays out. If he was still in the same mindspace he was in when we separated, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this. But he's not. And I'm not.

And you're right - if he's made his own assumptions and "what ifs" about me, if I don't make it perfectly clear, we might never know, and we might miss a chance. As it is, we've already lost a lot of time. I think I need to make that move - and let it unfold as God wants it to.

JinGA

You will be liberated by this one way or the other. Not knowing is keeping you hostage.

Let it out and be 100% clear about it without any doubts that you want to be a family again.

I think I'm going to try to do that today. I'll email him shortly and ask him if he can meet me at the shop on his way home from work.

NOT saying a word to the kids... I'll just tell them I need to go out for a bit.

The letter doesn't ask for anything - but after he reads it I will tell him that I wrote it some time ago, and I still feel this way, and if he feels the same way, I would like us to try to be a family again.

I also know he's going to need some time to think about it and take care of "business" with GF - I think I'll leave it with him and ask him to think about it, and if he feels that he wants to give me another chance, and to try to repair our family, to ask me out on a date.

That gives him time and space, and doesn't leave me trying to control everything. Either he'll ask - or he won't.

I'm more nervous than a high school girl...

JinGA

Ok composed the email... haven't hit the send button yet.

Subject: On the way home...

Would it be possible for you to stop at the store for a few minutes?

I'd like to talk with you.

Signed it with my name.

No doubt that will get him wondering - hopefully it won't put him on the defensive <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I guess there's no other way to say it without spilling the beans.

We'll see what he says.

JinGA

Send it. Get your toe out of the water and jump in the damn pool woman! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

*Gulp* Sent. No going back now is there?

And yep, I'm just like that in a swimming pool. One toe at a time.

JinGA

JinGA,

One thing you wrote sort of resonated with me:

When you speak to your XH, the way that you become become open without giving away your power is to be TRANSPARENTLY HONEST. Here's what that means. You are who you are. You are smart, funny, articulate, caring woman. You also happen to still love your ex! So being transparent means that you reveal the real you.

I think what you've been doing is "hiding" the real you in an effort to protect yourself--and then revealing what you think he wants to see. The way to maintain your power is to transparently show him, "This is WHO I AM, and I am this person whether you love me or not. I have these feelings whether you love me or not. Just wanted you to know." For the first time, show him the true, inner you and keep your power because you are who you are!

Let me give you a concrete example. My exH was coming to town this weekend for our DD17's graduation. I am currently a short, pleasingly plump, casual, natural, funny, long-haired, twirler-girl, hippie woman, and I LIKE who I am. My new DH also likes me as a short, pleasingly plump, casual, natural, funny, long-haired, twirler-girl, hippie woman. He sees the REAL me and chooses me and is pleased with me. My exH does not like how short I am but could deal with it if I was thinner. He doesn't like the pleasingly plumpness because he wants a waif of a girl. He doesn't like the casual or naturalness because he wants more of the professional, made-up, jewelry everywhere type. On and On. SOOOOOOO...he's coming to town this weekend, and out of habit I begin stressing about putting on dressy clothes that are "stylish" and wearing makeup and stuff like that (in other words, being someone I am NOT!). Then it dawned on me. I am ME! I am married to a man who loves the real ME. I don't need to be someone I'm not anymore!! So I looked around the house and I was pleased with how it looked...with how I looked...with the comfy but nice clothes that I selected...and I was ME! I did not give away my power.

See, JinGA. You are who you are! Just be transparent and allow your XH to see the real you and don't be afraid. If he cares for the REAL you, then you maintain your voice--and if he does not care for the REAL you, then at least you know where you stand and you STILL maintain your voice.

Your true and faithful friend,



CJ

Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I read your post about that - I think I commented in it too - I'm not much for makeup either - just on special occasions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Your statement *is* empowering. If he chooses not to accept my love, or want to try again, that does not change who I am and what I feel. It just means I have to deal with that on those terms.

Thank you - I feel a bit stronger now ... but still kinda weak and vulnerable - but I guess I can't help that entirely.

I sent the email half an hour ago - no reply yet. Not sure if I should call if his shift is past and I haven't heard. He's off work in another half hour. Takes him about 45 minutes to get here.

JinGA

Ugh still no reply to my email. Sometimes he does that - thinks he's replied but didn't. He finishes work in 15 minutes. I guess if that time comes and goes and I don't hear, perhaps I'll head over to the shop with my letter, and call him to see if he got my message. I was just hoping to avoid speaking to him directly until we're face to face and I can say what I want to say without impediments.

Talk about suspense <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Okay--since we're so much alike, I have a suggestion that I did that helped me feel a little less vulnerable. I bought a necklace with a big old stone in it that is wire-wrapped...and a long chain so that the stone hung at about my heart level. When I was doing one of those "transparent honesty" things where I felt a little vulnerable, I wore the stone as a shield for my heart. I envisioned that it allowed love and good stuff through...but just reflected out stuff that was hurtful. That way I always felt like I had a little bit of a shield to help absorb the worst of those hurtful things.

Do you have a necklace like that? I big old locket or item on a longish chain that would hang about heart level? Maybe it would help you feel a little safer!



--CJ

I have a St. Terese medal that my friend gave me for my birthday last month. I have worn it every day since she gave it to me. Only take it off to shower. It fits that bill <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> And yes I have it on now.

I'm showered, dressed and ready to go. Told the kids I have to go out shortly to take care of something - they're a bit curious but they won't pry. I guess I'll head over to the shop in a bit - and I'm not sure if I should wait til he's due to show up, or if he doesn't - call him and expect him to come back out. Probably the former - if I don't hear from him before he leaves work, I'll call him while he's on the road. If he gets all the way home he might not want to come back out (if he missed my message) - and I wouldn't feel comfortable going to the apartment he shared with GF to speak about this.

Damn I'm a mess. Holding it together....

He may just show up - having got my message but didn't acknowledge - that happens sometimes but I hate to assume. When he's 30 minutes or so into his commute I'll call I guess. Hopefully he's not on the phone with his GF at that point <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JinGA

Well wish me luck folks - I'm heading over to the shop. In about 20 mins if I haven't heard from him I'll call to see if he can stop.

It will all be a false alarm if he doesn't want to stop... but hopefully he'll at least do that.

Another hour or so and I should hopefully be out of my misery - one way or another.

JinGA