Yes. And maybe the other one if you can find it. Thanks, that one is, ummm, puzzling me greatly.

Larry

From Penalty Kill


Ah, but what if she called in to the radio show?


I would agree that if you feel that it's not a waste of your time that you should speak up. It is your choice.


In this case I don't have much in the way of wisdom, but someone else might.


Fair enough. But I confess to being puzzled here. It would seem to me that BSs might take comfort in the fact that we have had a number of affair marriages that are on the rocks....and why? Because one one of the spouses is having an affair. Doesn't anyone appreciate irony? Must offense be taken? It's like asking to remain a victim - of someone who never hurt you.


I'll be bound by the chains for a long time, probably forever. But that's my own guilt and it is not the reason that I posted. My affair was not one where I was contemplating a life with OM, so no, I don't identify with this poster. Further, it is not my job to protect the BSs on this forum from hurt - their own WSs have that power, not I. I protect my H from hurt, and that's it, that's all the power I have in this world. I think that it's perfectly fine for posters to weigh in on a thread like this with their opinion of affair marriages and then to leave the thread since it bothers them. To ask the poster to leave should be the moderator's job, not a poster's, IMO.

Rule of therapy: you can't change other people; you can change only your reaction to them. On the forum we can react by saying "I disapprove of you" and then leaving the thread. It's rather presumptuous to say, "I disapprove of you. You leave".

We've already seen it ad nauseum on other threads. In the end, all it does is draw attention to the poster and her situation, which would seem to be in opposition to your stated desire.

Take care.

Ok, I went back and read your posts. Obviously your husband is eating cake. That means he got you and the OW at the same time. Such a deal.


Ever wonder what he is telling HER? See, it is that once is a mistake, and two or three times or whatever is a pattern. You haven't told us much about him. So I hesitate to make too many suggestions. It does seem to me that he may be your world, but you and the kids are NOT his world. Otherwise, he would, given his past experience, have kept it in his pants. Maybe he is just the type of guy who gets the urge for a little strange. If that is the case, he is in urgent need of a strong reality hit up side of his head. If he thinks he is entitled or if he thinks he is Mr. Wonderful, I do not see it to your advantage to encourage his mind set.

See, it is about family. He is either in or he is out. Did he have kids from the previous marriage and how did he treat those kids? This is going to be a major factor in the outcome of his current affair. Yes, people change, some better and some worse. So far, you have been getting good advice from those who choose to give it and I am not going to duplicate what they have said.

I will tell you that I will advocate a tougher approach in your situation because he is a serial cheater. Emotional appeals do not work very well in those cases, in my opinion, but a strong dose of reality might just do the trick.

Larry

Well PK, the difference is this, Dr. Harley is a PROFESSIONAL COUNSELOR...Everyone here recognizes that she can and should seek professional counseling regarding her current (predictable) predictament...On the other hand, GQII is a SUPPORT GROUP FORUM manned and sought out by the VICTIMS of INFIDELITY-It just seems damned obvious why this is NOT the place for people in Affair Marriages to seek counsel, wouldn't you agree? Calling in to the radio show is FAR different than having an Affair Marriage rubbed DAILY in the faces of the victims and the vunerable here-(perhaps several times a day-depending on how much help she asks for or receives)...

PK, I'm sorry that you continue to have guilt...I do not...I have REMORSE...I feel that guilt is a selfish emotion really...As I said, I have repented of my sin and have been mercifully forgiven...To continue to beat myself with guilt would be thumbing my nose at God's and Mr. W's gift of forgiveness...Wallowing in guilt once forgiven helps no one...

I did not TELL this poster that she HAD to leave...I am not a mod here, I do not have the power to do that...What I did do was point out why I feel her asking for help here is CRUEL and I suggested that ALL would be better served if she were to have compassion and seek help in a more appropriate venue...I still feel that way...It seems a no brainer to me...I'm genuinely surprised that it can be seen any other way...

Obviously I realize that I only have control over my reactions...I have no desire to change my reaction to Affair Marriages...I will ALWAYS be shocked and appalled by them...They represent evil and indecency to me...In order to exist they victimized and damaged others...I want no part of that...

I do know that at least one Affair Marriage person left GQII because people kept pointing out the obvious to her...I am glad she finally showed compassion to the people here and took her issues elsewhere...But that, of course, is just my opinion...

Mrs. W

EXACTLY!!

This is turning into another JustJilly thread....chrisner, if you aren't familiar with it, look it up. It got locked because it got so ugly.

I'm the BS, guys, and I would feel deeply, deeply betrayed by anyone here who, should my FWH have married the OW, cheated on HER, she came here, and you all helped her...oh man. OUCH.

I'm sorry for your pain, deeply...I really am. But this is highly offensive to the BSs around here who have done and ARE doing everything in their power to save our marriages. WE are the victims ~ you were the PERPETRATOR in someone else's marriage! You helped your H (a MARRIED MAN) "rape" his ex-wife (because that is what you and he did ~ you took the most sacred thing she had, her marriage, and you destroyed it). And then, as if THAT wasn't enough, to further twist that knife in her heart, you married him.

ETA: just read Mrs. W's post....it could not have been any better said. Really. She is dead on. So, MF says "dittodittoditto" to Mrs. W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
By the way ~ hi, Mrs. Dub!!!!).

To "Deep",
Indiscretions of your youth???, Ya gotta know
a woman like you tried to alienate my H from me. I have little to no sympathy for you. Did you know the statistics before you H-snatched? According to some, 2 to 3% will end up with "her man" & of those 2 or 3%, 75% will end up divorced because they were deceptive in their relationship and they know that they can never trust their affair partner. So out of 100 affairs, lets say 30 of you will get your man, longevity + 75% means that 4 of you may have an everlasting marriage. Chances going against you would be that he would D his wife and let the proverbial Greyhound
leave tire marks on your back. Or....Maybeeeee just marry you....YEA.....You Won!!!! Or NOT...He lands an OOW. You got lucky for a little while. No one has asked you how many kids he left behind. Why do you think you are so "special" that he wouldn't do to you what he did to her?
Ya gotta know, in an affair, the new "gal" is just a new novelty, til she's found out, the WS may fight to keep her marriage, or give the H the "F-U" plan" and be so disgusted she leaves. At any rate, you entered into a disrespectable
relationship, and girlfriend, there is Karma. I hope you study this site for you next relationship. Cause he has done discarded you, and after all, you came to him very willingly and you decided to defacate all over his M. Read these boards, then you decide who has a "luuuv forged by the stars" Obviously it wasn't you. I feel for any woman whose husband disrespects her. But, Gal, you had to know it was coming! Study the plans here and know you ain't gonna get no sympathy from us Betrayed wives on this board. But, that is just me.



Y0U CAN'T FIX STUPID

Some friends who went to the MB weekenk just last weekend said Dr Harley says 1 in 20 will marry their affair partner. Of thjose, 30% will "make it" But only 1/2 of those are happy.

That is 0.75%

AH what splendid odds. LOL.

[THREADJACK to PK]


You know PK, the more I've thought about this comment from you to me, the more it has been needling me...Here's why...I find it truly AMAZING that as a FWW you will still stand in SUPPORT of IMMORAL behavior...It makes me wonder what you have learned from the horrific experience of betraying someone...See, one thing that I've worked HARD to do is repair my moral compass...In fact, not only have I repaired it, I've found that it now works MUCH better than it ever did before...I find myself FAR more conservative now...My views on lots of things have changed...My entire perspective on the world and my life and place in it has shifted...Sure, I realize that the only person I can really change is ME, but I want ME to remain true to clearly defined morals...As my mom always told me, "times may change, but morals never do"...I am doing all that I can to make sure that that remains front and center in my life from now on...

You seem to be just as liberal as ever-Gray areas abound...I am very surprised at your live and let live attitude...I wonder if that is because you feel that you have no right to stand up for what is MORAL, GOOD and TRUE based on your wayward past? Because if that is the case PK, I think you need to reaccess yourself...Have you turned from that sin? Are you repentant? Have you been forgiven? If so, then you have to forgive yourself and move forward...Step completely out of the wayward mindset...Do you still identify with wayward posters? I'm not asking whether or not that you are able to read and understand them, I can still do that too...I still have a memory afterall-fortunately AND unfortunately...But I mean, do you pity them? Are you personally offended when someone gives them a 2x4? Or when a poster here makes a blanket statement regarding WSs does it anger you? Do you feel it in your core? See, I do not-I don't identify with a WS and when someone here talks about a WS I never feel that they are talking about me, because they are not, as I am not a WS...I do not see myself that way at all, because I am NOT that way...Through word and deed I am not a WS...And because I am not, I have no trouble identifying, defining or judging immoral behavior...I am a good and moral person now...I have shed my WS skin, don't you think it's time for you to do the same?

My intent is not to slam you here...I hope that you realize that...

Mrs. W

P.S. Hi and thanks to MarriedForever!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[/THREADJACK]

BIG KAHUNA, I LIKE YOUR STATISTICS BETTERR THAN MINE!!!

According to what I have read, most of those who marry had an exit affair rather than the more common variety we see here every day. Of course finding someone else before you get divorced and get your head on straight is no prescription for success. According to what I have read, most of the marriages are single women/married men who cheated. Married women/married men seem to almost never get married and married women/single men seem to implode as well.

I have never understood something. I have read over on gloryb to see if I could pick it up. In the case of a single women who had an affair with a married man then subsequently married him - what were they thinking? Was it the usual infatuation out of control mind set or what? If I could get to one here before they got stoned against the wall, I might get an answer. Oh well.

Larry

From Penalty Kill

[THREADJACK]

Mrs. W, I find that when things needle me, it may be because there is a grain of truth there, and it itches, just like sand in a bathing suit. Just sayin.


Whoa. Huge logic jump! I don't think that I am standing in support of immporal behavior. I live a moral life, and have for quite some time now. My moral compass is quite finely tuned, but I can't tune others' compasses for them; I see it as a futile exercise. I am merely suggesting that doing the same thing over and over doesn't help. My point was, why not try a different thing? One post and then utter silence. If you don't see the merit in that, fine. I also wanted to draw a distinction between how women in A marriages seemed to be treated here vs men. I followed ManFromZog's thread, waiting to see if he would be shown the door. It didn't happen. I started thinking....always a dangerous thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sidenote: Big K, I was not including you or medc in my observation about misogyny. You're both equal opportunity, and have the virtue of consistency <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I saw that both of you said something to the ManfromZog regarding your position.


Plenty, actually, but more from helping my H heal than the actual betrayal. What I learned from betraying someone is that I have the capacity for evil within me. I could have done without learning that.


Ah. There's the difference between us, and you'll have to allow for it, as we are all unique. My moral compass works fine, but something in *me* was broken by the affair. Just like dropping something on the floor. To put it in Christian terms (although I am a Jew), I am acutely aware of the nature of my sin, and that makes me more forgiving of sin in others. Notice I did not say "condoning".

Now, if the original poster's H's ex-wife was on the forum, I think we'd have reason to ask her (the OP) to leave. After 15 years, I would hope that she's moved on to a better life with a better man. I don't want to make the assumption that the woman is sitting around still feeling betrayed after all this time. As I said, I look at the situation differently. My H reads the forum from time to time as well. As a BS, he couldn't care less who is in an A marriage. As he sees it, it's not applicable to his situation. But he did go absolutely crazy when he read a post from a BS who had turned into a WS and was talking about how to seduce married women.

That post hit him close to home. You don't need a PhD in psych to understand why that would be. My point is that not all BSs will find themselves up in arms over this poster. Some, like my H, will simply say, "Well, what did she expect if she married a cheater who was willing to leave his family?"


Same here....changed. But I think that I skew a bit more liberal than conservative. Uh oh. I said the "L" word.


That's fine. So am I. But I still think that ultimately all we can do is to change ourselves. We cannot expect others to change for us. Even something as simple as a message board.


Mrs. W, you just made me laugh. My H calls me LALL - for live and let live. Only he's being sarcastic; he has a biting sense of humor. He also calls me the general. IOW, I am about as far from a live and let live mentality as they come. I am actually more of a black and white person who has learned to let a little gray seep in.


In order to frame that question to me, a Jew, you would have to ask me if I have atoned. I have, and continue to do so.


Not sure if I have been forgiven; please understand that as a Jew, forgiveness is not as essential to me as it might be to you. I have forgiven myself, as long as I continue to walk a straight path.


Identify, no. Empathize, perhaps with some. I think that empathy is an essential tool for human beings.


I know what you mean by unfortunately.


No and no. But I have always believed that words spoken (or written in this case) reflect as much (or more) on the writer as they do on the intended target.


I have come to realize that the vast majority of the WSs referred to in this forum are the schnooks who continue their affair in the face of discovery, and who may just decide to up and leave their family, children included. As I said, my A was nothing like that. Had I been discovered at the time it was active, I would have thrown myself and my H's feet and begged for another chance. I used the OM like a toy (mind out of the gutter, not that kind of toy, most of our contact was via email). When I was tired of him, I threw him away. I never wanted to throw my H away, though he certainly, logically, felt that I did.

So, in a longwinded answer, no, blanket statements here about WSs don't apply to me.


It's been shed, but it's left a scar on me, kind of like when you wear a pair of pants that's too tight and the waist band leaves a mark on your middle. It's left a mark on my marriage, too.


I absolutely do. Take care.
PK

[/THREADJACK]

From Penalty Kill

T/J for Larry

Read the recent threads from Tangled.

Regarding Tangled, I have felt for a very long time that she and MiM could benefit from some intense MC that would take them back to the start of their marriage, and their courtship. It seemed that they were using the forum as a surrogate MC, which wasn't working too well, IMO, partly because MiM is more articulate, and Tangled was on the defensive from the get-go.

Further, MiM is playing his cards close to the vest, possibly in an attempt to shield Tangled from scrutiny. It's hard for me to tell what's going on between them, or what he is alluding to in his latest posts. To compound the situation, Tangled appeared to have a different point of view than MiM, but then stopped posting altogether. Larry, did your questioning hit too close to home? Quite possibly.

What has always puzzled me is when MiM says that Tangled is not into displays of affection. It's hard for me to understand that, since I think that would go a very long way toward healing their relationship, along with transparency, honesty, etc. It's a concept that's difficult for me to grasp, since I have always found my H to be very physically appealing.

MiM/Tangled, if you are reading this, please excuse me for talking about you in the third person. I always hope that your recovery is going well.

PK

T/J for Larry over

PK, my mil has been sitting around feeling betrayed for the last 24 years since her husband of 28 years left her for the ow. it happens

From Penalty Kill


I'm sure that it does. That's sad for your MIL.

My stepmother's ex-H left her for another woman - he also became very involved in some church at the same time. My S-mother says that she is more annoyed with the church than with the OW, with whom she has a cordial relationship. Also, she doesn't think of herself as having been thrown over for an OW, but rather a different churchly lifestyle. I don't get it, but that's me. I think it's a self-preservation tactic on her part. Her ex-h and the OW have been married for over 30 years now. But my step-M has been married to my father for 28 years now, so that probably has something to do with it. They're very happy.

Take care.

From Penalty Kill

Star*Fish, a BS, made a post on ManFromZog's thread that I think is applicable to deepinlove4life's thread as well. One reason that I read the forum at MB is to understand where my H, the BS, is coming from. It is troubling to me that some may incorrectly infer that I am insensitive to the plight of BSs, or still wayward myself, simply because I don't want to see more conflict on the board over who should be allowed to post - conflict that I believe only serves to draw attention to something many folks find repellent.

PK...

First, I'd like to say that I do appreciate the tone of our posts to one another...I feel that we are both being respectful and discussing our unique POVs...Thank you for that...I believe that you realize, as I do, that many times much is lost in the written word, and sometimes offense is taken where none is intended...I hope we are able to continue along that same vein...

See, for me, Affair Marriages are a completely black and white issue...They are WRONG...PERIOD...I find there to be no room for gray there...PK, do you feel that Affair Marriages are wrong? Yes or No? And if your answer is no, then what in the heck are we all doing here, KWIM?

At what point does an affair stop being an affair? Is there some statute of limitations that I'm not aware of? Does marriage legitimize an affair? Do children? I don't think there is ANYTHING that makes an affair not an affair...There I go again, with the black and white...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Is there a time that you feel that a BS is supposed to stop being offended that their WS left them for another? I don't think so...I think the answer to when does a BS stop being offended by an affair is NEVER...Of course, they will eventually move on with their lives, just as a rape victim would, but I guarantee you that the rape will NEVER be viewed as "Okay"...Remember that Dr. Harley, as well as many BSs, liken infidelity to rape or even the death of a child...

And I agree with you that empathy is a very important trait to possess...I sometimes wonder what happened to my empathy gene during my affair-My only explanation is that my "Taker" came out roaring and squashed that sucker flat for a time...Thank God, it's back and reinstated in full...As important as empathy is, I strongly believe that MISPLACED empathy is VERY harmful and dangerous...To give someone empathy where no empathy is due, is to allow for evil to thrive and prevail...It enables the sick and twisted among us to continue to rape, rob and pilage rather than encouraging them to turn away from wrongdoing...

When people in Affair Marriages come here, they NEED to hear just how offensive their actions are...They NEED to be told to consider the VICTIMS, afterall, not doing that is what got them in their current predictament in the first place...They NEED to hear the TRUTH...And YES, I believe that they should be told that CHOICES have CONSEQUENCES and that one of their consequences should be not receiving help in a SUPPORT GROUP FORUM designed for and made up by the VICTIMS of Infidelity...I strongly believe that many, if not all, of the people that end up having affairs and then marrying their affair partners think that life just happens to them...There is a failure to recognize that THEIR CHOICES are what determines the outcome of their lives...And I think the buck oughta stop here...They need to be told to CHOOSE otherwise...It is a BAD CHOICE to ignore the VICTIMS and the VUNERABLE herein for the sake of themselves...I do not believe that they should be AIDED in continuing in the sin of adultery, ESPECIALLY in this venue...That is just SICK to me...

I too am forgiving of the sin of others...IF they TURN FROM THAT SIN and REPENT or ATONE...NOT when they wish to continue in that same sin...And THAT is EXACTLY the wish of those who come here asking for help in saving their AFFAIR MARRIAGES...They wish to continue the AFFAIR...And because I DO recognize how very grievous my own sin of adultery was, I cannot in good conscience support someone who wishes to remain in a state of adultery...To me that would be LEGITIMIZING an AFFAIR...IMO, To do that in any way, shape or form CHEAPENS LEGITIMATE MARRIAGE...

Finally, your idea of "one post & utter silence" regarding Affair Marriages being here is just not agreeable to me...To do that makes me think of the paraphrased version of a quote that I carry around in this space between my ears...'Evil Thrives, When Good Men Stand Silent'...I know that isn't the exact quote, but it is the gist of it...Affair Marriages make my soul cry out...They represent the ultimate in injustice and I fully believe that they are EVIL...To stand in defense of an Affair Marriage receiving help here in order to survive is, to me, supporting immoral behavior...That just doesn't work for me...Or as they say in my homeland of the South, "That Dog Just Won't Hunt!"...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,

Mrs. W

FTR, my mother married her OM. My father, though having moved on with his life, still is angry at my mothers husband and will not be in the same room with him. Funny thing, my mother's H feels the same about my dad? Why? I would suspect some left over feeling of inadequacy or perhaps because us kids never fully accepted him. The absolute blackened fields of hurt those two left in their wake to be together is astounding. He had 3 kids and there were 4 in my family. My younger brother was essentially raised by my dad alone. I bounced back and forth so much I pretty much raised myself as a teen.

Then I became a WW. I woke up one day to realizing I was becoming my mother and that scared me! I was doing to my kids what she had done to me. I stopped. I ended my affair. Eventually as an adult I forgave my mother.

Now she has Alzheimers and you wanna know the irony? Occassionally she rewrites her history and inserts my dad into the last 30 years that she has been m'd to her OM husband.

Karma, it does catch up with you.

Larry178,


You need to be careful with these data. An exit affair is defined in Torn Asunder and Private Lies as nothing more than a cudgel with which to apply blunt force trauma to the marriage. The aim is to kill the marriage not find a new partner. Very few true exit affairs result in a LTR. They are simply a conflict avoidance tool wielded by cowards.

Of more interest to me, since it is my sitch I suppose, not even loooong term affairs (like 10 years or more) result in marriage. You would think a VLTA would be with a soul mate, or at least mean something, huh? But it seems even they don't have any depth in the real world.

Everyones comments are greatly apprciated whetherthey hurt or not.

I can only apologize whole heartedly to all of you who have been hurt and have suffered due to people like me.

I know it doesn't make any difference to some of you but I think I would like to answer some of the things that have been brought up.

A brief history is in order.

I spent the first 17 yrs living in a household of physical, emotional, sexual and abuse. I left home @ 17 and had to figure life out on my own I have made many mistakes and thankfully learned from alot of them therefore I did not make the same mistakes again.

When I met my husband I was 21 had a 3 month old baby and deeply intrenched in a relationship with an alcoholic who thought it would be fun to hit. We talked, became friends it was never intended to go ANYWHERE but as time went on he filled emotional needs just by listening and helping me to get the strength to find a shelter and get out of this abusive relationship.
After a few months I became more and more attatched.Still after that time frame we were just friends and had never crossed the line. I knew he was married and tried to respect that. I ultimately after that began to realize I loved him (be that wrong or right) and crossed that line.(I knew it was wrong and am saddened to say that I let my emoitions take control)
He had married his first wife when she became pregnant, fresh out of high school at 18 had 3 wonderful kids. They were both malcontent and looking elsewhere for needs not met by the other.
Before anyone explodes at that remark I am on speaking
terms with the ex-wife and raised the children until they were grown and have a good relationship with all three who are married with children of their own.
I know this is NOT the way it tipically goes, but it did for us.
We have endured many things in 15 years just like any other married couple. The good times the bad times etc. we have overlooked many of each others flaws.

Someone asked for more info on my husband.
He is overall a 'good' man. But he, as I have learned over the years, is somewhat of a taker. I am a giver so for the most part it has worked.
He has been a good father and a decent husband up until now.


I spoke with the OW yesterday and severely ticked my husband off but also spent the day after that figuring out where we would go from here.
I tried option #4 (from an earlier post)
He is at this time unwilling to give her up. So instead I gave him my terms. You want to stay married she goes otherwise you go. (which breaks my heart because he is my world)
He then spoke to the kids last night and let them know what was going on. they are understandably hurt and full of questions which I am making him answer and if he doesn't give enough detail I prod until he has.

I don't take this in stride as someone stated earlier but that has always been my survival technique. I break things down and shut parts of myself down until I feel I can handle it without going nuts.

I don't know of this answered all the questions or not.

From Penalty Kill


So do I.


Wrong for me, yes, but I still feel that all I am empowered to do is to decide on my response to an A marriage. My feelings about A marriages absolutely cannot affect whether A marriages exist or not, or whether people in an A marriage choose to post here or not. And I accept that, in the way that my H has come to accept the fact that his W had an A and that there is absolutely nothing he can do about that.

Ex: I went to a Christmas dinner at the home of some good friends of ours. During dessert, another couple came for a short visit. When they left, my friend told me that they were an A marriage. My friend said, "Oh, his wife is being so vengeful (or words to that effect). He's really having a hard time".

I gave it my best Livia Soprano: "Oh, poor him". I asked her, "Wouldn't you be the same?" "What if your H had an A and left you for the OW, leaving you with two kids? Wouldn't you be pi$$ed? I sure would be!"

"Oh, I hadn't thought of it that way. You know, you're right. And they're having problems with the children too".

"Well, I'm sure the kids aren't very happy about the situation either"

Now, my friend knows of my A. But she knows that leaving my H was the last thing I wanted to do, and that I had been doing my best to keep my H and my M afloat. As for my H, he was not in the least bit fazed by meeting the A couple. It didn't pertain to him in the least. His comment: "I know you would never leave. Why would you want to? You have everything you could possibly want, including an insane H".

As I said, my H has an interesting sense of humor.

My point in relating this story is that I cannot change what other people choose to do. And, should I meet the A couple again, pointing a finger at them and asking them to remove themselves from my presence (or that of my H) would succeed only in making me look like a fool. Disparaging other people, or publicly shunning them, does not purify my morality.

I've sinned, and I'm not going to cast stones, I'm just going to alter what *I* do in my life.

There's some interesting discussion going on in Lil Sis's thread that has some bearing on our dialogue. It's related to expectations matching up with behavior, and how we react when our expectations are not met.

Now, as to when an A marriage stops being an A....I'd have to say that would be up to the BS. When does the BS stop feeling like a victim of the A? A good friend of ours is remarried after his W had an A. He doesn't feel at all like a victim today; he feels like a man who dodged a bullet. He's very happy, and his new wife is cool. His ex-W is still w/the OM, although they are not married. That's because of $$. So who's better off now?


Well, I can't quite agree with you here, since it's MB, and marriage consists of two people. We're under the infidelity heading here, so the forum is also going to consist of the perpetrators as well as the victims. And everyone is going to hear things that they don't want to hear; that's the nature of the beast. We can't protect everyone.

And along that line, I know that some parallels have been drawn regarding offering assistance to long-time A marriages and allowing evil to flourish - evil like child abuse or other atrocities. I just don't see it in the same vein, probably because I know several people who have survived affairs and are thriving, either in their marriages or in new ones (not A marriages, I'm talking about the BS here). And although the BS has been wronged, certainly, the BS does not have to remain a victim forever, just as you do not see yourself as a WW, a perpetrator of injustice any longer.

To give another example, I work for an organization that combats generational poverty. The people we help have often dropped out of HS and had children without the benefit of marriage. Personally, both situations are abhorrent to me - forgoing your education and having children before marriage. But I would like to see these people end the cycle they are in, rather than to perpetuate it. The thought that because I help them means that I support kids dropping out of HS to have babies is absurd. Further, if all I did to help them was to hector them about the bad choices they have made and the horror they have likely visited upon their children, that wouldn't do much to end the cycle, would it?

Hopefully I have explained myself.

Take care.