Actually the David-Bathsheba thing was addressed on the JJ thread that is now closed.

Big difference is that Bathsheba's husband was dead. Otherwise she could not have married David.

Let's see. David sends soldiers to fetch a young woman in the middle of the night. Sounds more like a rape to me.

David paid a horrible price for his adultery. He was never the same man again.

David did repent but he still suffered the consequences of his actions.

What does really get to me here is that every day we counsel people that the affair will always end. We tell them to hold on. That OM/OW will be history. But now we have people having their worst nightmare rubbed in their faces in some kind of political correctness gone mad. As if 30 years makes any difference. His wife in now in ANOTHER LTA. That sowing and reaping DOES come around doesn't it.

Then we have the possibility that a WS will say - SEE affairs DO last. I am SURE to be one of those 0.75% of marriages that survive and are happy. LUCKY ME.

BK, you do not believe God has forgiven MFZ. I believe he has and showed it when he gave him two beautiful children. I don't believe a gift that wonderful is just a crude matter of "reproduction." Guess we'll just have to disagree on that.

So, in everything you say, you still recognize the concept of redemption. What can MFZ do to redeem himself in your eyes?

I'm not confusing anything man and marriage but we've established we can help the individual out here separately from the marriage.

What can this individual do to gain redemption in your eyes, BK and Kiwi? Once having redeemed himself, then shall he be fit to sit among us and get the benefit of, not my, but the wisdom of the pros out here?

I believe Bathsheba's husband died because David engineered it, right? And David had committed the sin of adultery by lusting after the woman, didn't he? Didn't God forgive David's adultery and his involvement in a murder plot, as well as the rape?

Well silly me. I've always been taught that salvation is a free gift of God that he gives you when you put faith in Christ. Whereas clearly all that is necessary is to produce 2 beautiful children.

Are you saying Longhorn that people who have children are saved? Is that your requirement?


Well he would need to turn from his sin wouldn't he. MFZ BTW has no need to be redeemed in my eyes - his spiritual state is between him and God. BUT if he had the slightest compassion and had truely repented, I don't think he would want to be rubbing the noses of the hurting on GQII in their worst nightmare.

Yes.

I think the marriage is legitimate. I'm not one of those who thinks that after a legitimate divorce, a new marriage is not legitimate. I'm not Catholic.

But that is not the issue here. Not in my eyes anyway The issue is that an A marriage is a kick in the stomach to all BS's here. I have a friend, not so much a friend as an ex coworker. She was engaged to her OP. She broke a marriage to do this. He cheated on her as well and she broke the engagement. My only thought was that she got her just desserts. What did she expect? If she came here looking for support I'd tell her to take it somewhere else.

Actually Jen, I'm not so sure about affair marriage status either. I agree with your objection. I have actually offered assistance to JJ on her new thread. I really just don't think they should be here on GQII.

I do think Jesus specifically addresses marriages that start as an affair though but if the people are not saved (at the time of the affair), I see it as a gray area.

I don't think that would set a very good precedent as a way to insure that one's affair marriage will be "legitimate".


I think that would be adding something to the story that is not there. The OT certainly has a number of stories of rape, so it seems incongruent to leave such an important detail out.


I agree. However, he was allowed to continue in marriage with a women who had been his affair partner and whose husband he had murdered.


I don't think we should be telling people untruths. We can tell people the truth that most affairs do not last, but to insist that none of them do is deceptive.

The occasional belligerant wayward spouse or affair partner that shows up can be dealt with accordingly.

I don't really think that telling active affairees that their "soulmate love" won't last even makes a dent in the defensive duncitude with which they are filled.

If anyone is telling that to newly betrayed spouses, that practice had better end immediately because many of them most assuredly do not end in time to save the marriage. All we can do is suggest a program that has a chance to end the adultery.

David was redeemed after, one might argue, doing worse than MFZ ever thought of doing. And David was allowed to mix with those in (his) kingdom who hadn't committed nearly as grievous as sins, though we, as Christians, all recognize we are all sinners, right.

Now, if God can conceivable forgive MFZ…why do we insist he must be shunned and set off to the side, and kept away from others.

Consider it in other words: why will we understand there is forgiveness for some of our most valuable posters who were once wayward themselves, but we cannot extend the same helping hand to another wayward one? How does a Christian rationalize that? Not only will some just sit by and do nothing in these situations, which I can understand, they have vilified one who will extend a helping hand to a sinner. Why is that?

BK and Kiwi...I avoided certain threads out here when I first came. Why do you think so little of other BS’s and say they do not also have that strength of mind?

I don't think that can be accurately asserted, since some BSs are expressing a different opinion.

I never avoided anything when I first came here. If I hadn't read posts from hurting BS's I would never have found the empathy I needed to understand my own BS.

I'm really surprised, as I've said before, on the stand I'm taking on this.

I believe we are all forgiven by God. I believe that if we are remorseful for our sins we are forgiven by God. I believe MFZ is forgiven. I believe he is hurt and needs help.

It still isn't the issue here. The issue is that an A marriage is the BS's worst nightmare and bringing it here hurts BS's.

LH

Why is it that som epeople like you and FH ar emaking this a hug eol' dogma debate while completely ignoring the PRACTICAL MB effect of this ?

I wrot eyou this on zog's thread and you clearly di dnot understand it, or you ignored it as it did not inflame your agenda for making this a forgiveness issue :


People with communicable diseases are barrier nursed in isolation wards in hospital LH. Not because their disease is too dirty to be cured, not because they are sinners, not because the nurses have some kick against their disease.

It is done so that THE DISEASE CANNOT SPREAD TO OTHERS.

Sufferers are helped in places where bystanders are less likely to be negatvely affected by the consequences of the disease.

As I WROTE if you bothered to read it is FACT that the acceptence and legitimisation of affair marriages just because they have lasted a long time or because they found the Lord ENCOURAGES WS and OPs and DISHEARTENS Vulnerable BS and FWS trying to make it work. Just read Jillys old threads for the PROOF.

Just like a patient's salvation status or time they had the disease does not remove the consequence that they can infect others , even a well intentioned A-apouse in a long a-marriage is STILL a poster child for the wayward and the very apex of badness for many BS and FWS.

Would you force a patient with a communicable disease to be treated on the main ward because they were Christians, or becase they'd been infected for 28 years or would you support them being isolation nursed ?

Whatever my take on the morality of a-marriages my proposal is wholly practical so that a-amarriage folk can be helped by the people that want to help them BUT they anti-marriagebuilding influence of such is kept off the main board.

Graplin, I'm an FWW.

Kiwi...I avoided certain threads out here when I first came. I'm a BS. I got through a phase here on MB. Why do you think so little of BS’s and say they do not also have that strength of will?

Why do you think Longhorn - are people supposed to be psychic before they click on a thread title?

It's not strength of will to avoid posts. You can see immediately as soon as you open it or read the title that a post is going to upset you. Heck, I read them anyway and get upset all over again lol. I even read the posts titled "Nasty names to call the WS". Ok, I know that's not what it's really called.

If I had married the OM (God forbid) and then came here looking for support when the inevitable happened, I would expect and deserve to get the reaction from people that anyone from an A marriage gets.

BP, I did read your post, but I disagreed with it. Out of courtesy, I didn't respond. BP, I don't believe your "facts." I'm a BS, sir, and I am not horrified at the sight of a wayward spouse in a committed marriage for 28 years. If in no other way than the fact some BS's were trying to help MFZ, your "facts" are, therefore, at least partially false.

Jilly was an unrepentant WS when she got here. MFZ is. Ban one if you will, though she won't get the benefit of everyone's advice, but extend a Christian hand of help to a repentent sinner..

Let me ask you this. Will you have enough Christian kindness to just get out of Star*Fish's way?

No, BK. They don't have to be psychic. I've been waiting for someone to suggest a compromise but it hasn't been forthcoming. How about...labeling those threads with a warning BS's should stay away?

You were a BS 30 years ago Longhorn. Not a fresh new one.

But let's have a hypothetical here OK?

Let's say you KNEW your wife had an affair and married her affair partner. Now it's 30 years later and she comes here for help when her "marriage" fails. What would you do?

Well I am sure that's a practical idea even if it is impossible to implement it.

How about NOT doing it on GQII. There's an idea.