Right then complete balls up here.

Following on from what I wrote earlier to believer about not getting too involved with IL. S*** hit the fan tonight. WW phoned to speak to the boys and I picked up the phone. She had to hang up as her mobile went off, so went she phoned back I made the comment was it more important to speak to lover boy than boys. Turns out it wasn't lover boy. Anyway I was angry as she won't let me have the boys Wednesday & Thursday of next week. Conversation got heated where she wouldn't answer my questions and kept saying put the boys on the phone, so I cut her off. After a few minutes I realised I shouldn't have done that and phoned her back and tried again to get her to answer my questions. I hear her mother and father in the back ground and her father accusing me of bullying her and not prepared to see it out with OM. I put the kids in the car and went round there to sort it out. FIL grabbed me so I pushed him over and he accused me of assault. MIL then accused me of trying it on with her daughter, my SIL. Never heard so much rubbish in my life. I had only tried earlier in the day to get my FIL to come out with me and the boys. It appears that whatever my WW says they believe. They don't accept what she is doing, but as soon as she starts to shout the odds they are right behind her.

I now have to agree to WW having the kids 5 days and then me having them 3 days in order to keep the house. She has arranged another meeting with the mediator for 22nd of August, but has agreed she will be out of the house by September 1st.

I have had it with this crap. I can't see us ever getting back together. I just can't seem to keep my cool.

Following my last update. I wrote a letter to my WW's parents apologising for my outburst and explaining how the whole A had made me feel and explaining that I needed to move on so I couldn't let my emotions dictate my actions.
I did receive a text back from my MIL saying she understood how I left and wished to whole thing had never happened.

Today was the first time I have seen or spoken to them since then. I felt very awkward coming home to see the boys and both my IL's being here. Very little was said other than expected pleasantries as I presume it was as awkward for them as it was for me.

I'm off to mediation tomorrow to see if we can agree on who will live at the house and how much time I will have with the boys. I need to drop the boys off at my IL's tomorrow as they will be looking after them while I'm there.

I haven't spoken to my WW since my last update other than a few words when changing over with the kids. To be honest I've not wanted to talk. I haven't called her or text her and left all communications to my WW to sort out. Yesterday was the last time she text asking if I minded looking after my niece and nephew along with my boys today, which wasn't a problem and goes a little way to show that I am a good father and uncle when allowed to be there.

So wish me luck tomorrow and please say a little prayer for me it you would be so kind.

Will update you all tomorrow.

HAF

Ok I need a little advice on how I talk to the boys.

I went to mediation yesterday and we have both agreed I that the house should not be sold and that I will live at the family home for the next 2 years and we will review things at the 2 year point.

I'm not sure we established much else while we were there. I wanted to establish exactly what our money was being spent on, myself and my wife have a similar amount of money each month. However I've managed to save some money each month for the holiday I'm taking the boys on but my WW has nothing left, even though her outgoings are only 50% of her income where mine are 70% of my income. So it begs the question is she supporting OM or what is she wasting her income on. Neither of us had to produce bank statements, which annoyed me somewhat as it would have shown where her money is going and with her not having anything extra I wonder how she will pay for a deposit on the place she intends to rent. OM has offered to give her some money towards a place to live, even if he doesn’t live there, but my WW won’t accept it.

I have had to agree that she will have the boys 5 days and I'll have them 3 days to stay in the house. This is due to my shift rotation, but she is still asking for some sort of maintenance as she is having them for 2 days extra, which I couldn't afford. She still believes that we should pay for the boys to attend their activities, but I'm of the opinion that they have to stop because we now have to pay for 2 homes.

My WW said that she had no intention of living with OM as the boys had only met him twice and that I question them when they return. She said that if they didn't want to see him she would accept that, but I'm being told I should not speak to the boys about him as they don't like to say anything as they feel they are upsetting me. I'm of a different opinion that they just go along with things, as they are afraid to upset their mother. I have been asked not to question the boys, and that if they aren't happy they will soon let me or their mother know. I have said that I can't stop her taking them to see OM and that I have to accept it, but that it doesn't mean its right and I question what message this gives the boys.

How do I talk to the boys without putting their mother down or OM. I can talk without putting their mother down, but I have so much hatred for this OM I can’t talk about him without showing how much I hate the man. I said at the meeting that he couldn’t tell my boys everything will be ok and he is responsible along with my WW for tearing up their little lives.

The letter I wrote to her parents, my WW has read obviously they showed it to her, which I don’t appreciate. My WW also said that her parents have said we should just sell the home and split the difference. I’m glad my WW agrees with me it shouldn’t be sold just yet. The mediator said we should speak to our solicitors, but both my WW and I don’t want to involve them, too much. My WW is looking to rent somewhere in our town and the OM’s town. I asked her to move out of our town as her living here with him is just rubbing my nose in it and she understands how this makes me feel. I have said that if I get to keep the house for the next 2 years I will give her a divorce on the grounds of separation for 2 years. It was at this point my wife said she didn’t have grounds for divorce. I know at times in the past she has said she has reasons for divorce, but this shows it doesn’t sit comfortably with her.

After leaving the meeting I told my WW how much I love her and she said she knew. I told her that when it falls apart she should come home, so we could rebuild our lives, but she said she couldn’t promise me that and that I would have moved on with my life. I asked that she stops seeing OM and comes on holiday with us and that could be the start of recovering our marriage.

We are due back to mediation next week to iron out a few other things. I’m hoping by then that I can have a clear picture as to where things are going and a time frame to work with. Between now and then I’ll be going over what the exchanges will be with the boys so that I can very quickly move to Plan B.

Sorry to hear she is still fog bound but the 2 yr lease on the house is good news
When my h described the progress of his a he drew the shape of it in the air with his finger. It described a graph which rose steeply to a high point and then tailed down and away to nothing. I think that would be true eventually for all or most a's. You have time on your side all you can do is to give them enough rope and wait and see. GOOD LUCK

I need some guidance here. Not sure what to do any more.

I feel like its the end of the road.

I went to mediation today and my WW has decided that she is not willing to leave the home because of the impact it will have on the boys. I understand where she is coming from but I can't protect them any more and I'm trying to protect myself by maintaining my boundaries. The boys have told WW that they don't like OM and I just hope they stick to it and she doesn't try to change their minds. I don't want the boys to move out but if I move out then I'm sure the OM will move in and there is no way I could reconcile if that happened.

As we can't agree my WW is going to her solicitors to file for something, which will probably be divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour, even though she says she has no grounds. If I file for divorce she is likely to get to keep the house and if she files she still gets to keep the house.

Do I leave the home or hold tight?

Today I feel like walking under a bus not that that will help or going round to OM house and beating the S*** out of him with Percy the persuader.

To make matters worse I lost my mobile will all my numbers text message the lot.

It never rains it pours

Hi,

Ok not sure what I should be doing now. As I mentioned last my WW wants to keep the house because of the impact it will have on our boys. I also don’t want to sell the house, but I don’t want her to keep it as she would only bring OM to it when the boys aren’t around and that would be too much for me to handle.

I have spoken to the bank and can raise some capital and along with our endowments I’m hoping to try and buy her out, but I’m not sure she will take it. I have spoken to my BIL last week and he has tried to table the offer to her. He said something has to be done so I can move on and regardless of what his parents say he believes the only way forward is to sell the house, which I’m willing to do. However I feel that selling the house is the end of ever getting this marriage fixed. I also spoke to the mediator and she will try the same. If that doesn’t work or she won’t go back to the agreement of me staying in the house, then it will have to be sold. My WW went to see her solicitor yesterday, so I expect to hear something soon. I’m not due to see mine until 20th September. All in all it’s taking a huge toll on me and I’m exhausted both physically and mentally.

I had a long talk with my BIL at the weekend and he has been very supportive and has offered to talk to both of us to reach an agreement, and I’m willing for him to do that. He has spoken to his parents and they still want to maintain the relationship we had, but are worried that when we talk it will end in an argument. I said we should wait a little longer until they are ready to talk, but it would have been nice if my MIL had of wrote me a letter like she said she would or at least try and build some bridges. It feels as if I’m the only one trying. I sent them all a letter the other week about anger following a post I read on MB, but only my cousin replied. My BIL said at the weekend that my WW was having a huge reality check, which is why she doesn’t want to move the boys out of their home, however this doesn’t help me.

I phoned the radio station last week and spoke to Dr Harley. He said I’ve done everything I can and no one could say I was wrong to end the marriage, but that it would end within 2 years if I were willing to wait. I really want to go to Plan B but can’t all the time she won’t move out and I’m not willing to move out so free loading OM can move in. Dr. Harley said I might have to move to protect myself from the emotional pain. I suppose I should just wait and see what happens with the solicitors

At mediation the mediator suggested that I move out and WW stays but on condition OM doesn’t visit our home. I said I couldn’t, as I can’t trust my wife to stick to it. I said if it weren’t for this OM I would move out and my WW didn’t comment. Her silence says a lot I believe.

I spoke to the boys the other day and my WW tried to get them to go out for the day with OM but they refused saying they don’t like him. They also said that my WW had been crying again.

I try and maintain no contact with my WW where possible, but this weekend there is a family party at my BIL’s and I’m not feeling too comfortable about going as my WW will be attending. I’ve decided I will arrive early, so that I feel less awkward going in and can let others feel awkward instead.

HopesandFears,

So sorry to hear it's going to rough for you!

I haven't kept up with everyone's threads as much as I should, so forgive me if I ask questions that you've already answered.

What plan are you in? Plan A or Plan B? You mention trying to avoid her, , ,

First, you need to accept that you may not ever have the support of WW's parents. This is their daughter, and right or wrong, they are likely going to support her in whatever she chooses. Trying to continue to force that R in your favor will only continue to hurt and frustrate you. Refer to LilSis's thread,,,she had the same sitch as you and has worked thru it pretty well but it was just as hard for her.

You are right not to trust you WW. Knowing that, however, you also realize you can't CONTROL her either. What you can control is YOU and do what you can to protect yourself, your children and do so both financially and emotionally.

You do not have to rush into or through any of this mediation stuff. Slow down. MAKE her work for it, don't do anything to help her through this.

What, other than having initial conversation with your solicitor, have you done to prepare for Plan B?

For me, it's been about working the Plans that has helped keep me sane.

Tell me why you need to attend this family party? If it is only going to cause you pain, and you are not in Plan A, then why go?

Hi Bugsmom,

Thanks for dropping in.

I'm in Plan A moving to Plan B, but I'll explain.

I was implementing Plan A, with little effect and the emotional turmoil was too much and created too many LB's. It's not easy trying to stay calm when your WW keeps telling you she loves someone else and comes home after spending the night with OM. We were told to go to mediation and as such agreed my WW would spend 4 1/2 days at home with my boys while I was at work and I would spend 3 1/2 days with them when I'm off. This is because I work shifts which include night work. This was agreed to help maintain some stability to my boys. This also stopped me getting hurt by not seeing my WW. I continued to implement Plan A in as far as keeping the house tidy and ensuring she didn't have much to do around the house. I've been unable to hold conversations with her or show any affection, but tried to put in what I could regarding her ENs. This was suppose to be a short term solution until we decided what would happen with the house.

About 2 weeks ago my WW agreed I should keep the house and we would sell it in 2 years time. Since we returned to mediation she has now gone back on her word, so I'm waiting to see what happens next.

I attended the family party as it was for my niece's 3rd birthday. As I had the boys this weekend I needed to take them and my BIL and SIL wanted me to come, so I agreed to attend. My MIL and FIL came and we talked a little. I tried to stay away from my WW and made no conversation with her at all. My BIL and SIL said they knew how hard it was for me but were glad I stayed and saw it through. My MIL and I gave each other a big hug when she left and their was a few tears on both sides. I have always been very close to them and we are all going on holiday in October and both of use don't want to have any bad feelings while we are away as that would spoil the holiday for everyone.

I have spoken to my solicitor and I'm due back again on 20th September. The courts lean heavily towards the main carer in the UK so if I push things I'm likely to loose so mediation is my best chance of getting a fair deal.

Slowing things down only makes it more difficult for me to handle as I feel as if I'm in limbo and its putting a strain on others around as well.

With regards to preparing for Plan B, I've arranged when and how the boys will be handed over. I've got some friends of ours to mediate between regarding any communications. The rest of the finances will be sorted at mediation if we get back and then I'm ready mentally to be on my own. That's all I think I need to have sorted I believe.

One other thing. During the family party yesterday I was playing football with my boys against their cousins, which was great fun and we always do it when we are all together. My cousin spoke to me afterwards and said that my WW was watching me all the time I was playing. She said all the time I show that I don't care she shows interest, but when I'm down she isn't interested. She said I should carry on doing my own things as she thinks this gets to her. Sounds like the 180% turn.

I need some help here.

If you have been reading my thread you will know that I spend some days at home while I have the boys and some days at my brothers when I'm at work.

The last time we went to mediation my WW decided she didn't want to leave me with the house and she was going to see her solicitor as she said it wasn't fair for the boys to visit there home 3 days a week and that they should spend the majority of there time at home. This would mean being with my WW as she is the main carer. Since then I have offered to buy her out through the mediator or sell the house.

I've been living at my brothers on and off for almost 3 months now and I feel this just can't carry on. I'm reluctant to move home and cause a big problem as I'm due to go on holiday with all my WW's family in 4 weeks time, but I'm fed up with being in limbo so to speak. I can't move forward without the sale of the house and I can't stay at my brothers much longer. I'm getting to the point where I don't even want to save my marriage any more, but would do it for the sake of my boys.

How do I move on?

Do I ask my WW to consider selling the house when she comes to look after the boys on Tuesday or do I just carry on for a little longer. I want to have my own place by Christmas, so the house needs to be sold.

Do I contact the mediator and ask her opinion and wait until I have seen my solicitor on Thursday.

I haven't spoken to my WW in the last couple of week other than hello or good morning. Even at my niece's birthday party I only said goodbye to her when she left.

I wonder what is going through her head. OM still hasn't found somewhere for them to live and my boys don't want to see him. Will this fog ever lift.

Some guidance would be appreciated.

Regards
HAF

HAF-

I'd suggest that you might post a thread over in the Divorce forum.

I don't know much/anything about divorce, so can't give you any advice on how to manage that. You might ask some of the other poster's who've gone through this for advice...Strivin is one who comes to mind.

Thanks for your input Owl.

I haven't yet posted on Divorce as I still don't know what is happening.

Monday I called the mediator and was informed that my WW wanted to take things to court and wouldn't accept my offer to buy her out or sell the home. She has since been to see her solicitor and I'm waiting on their letter.

Later that day I called my WW and asked her outright to sell the home, but she refused saying she didn't think it was in the boys best interest to sell it and that neither of us could afford a home of our own. Although trying not to sound needy or creating a selfish demand I tried to show it was in everyone's interest to sell it and move on. I happy to call our marriage a day and be happy with the good times we had and move on with life without her, but I don't want to force the issue, which would ultimately see her move out with the boys into a 1 bedroom flat.

Move forward to Tuesday morning. WW returns in the morning to have the boys and I have taken time off work so couldn't go straight back to my brothers as it was very early in the morning. The conversation starts again about the house and having a fair deal for everyone. WW still refuses to sell the house and I've pre-warned her that there may be a force of sale on the house. I ask her "if you could save the marriage would you want to" her answer "I don't know". I was hoping for a straight yes or no.

I have asked her again if you want a divorce then fine I'll give you it. No reply. What is it with her she has said for so long she doesn't want to save the marriage, so when I offer her a divorce on a plate she doesn't take it.

Next week I'm off to see my solicitor,but I think I will have to move home and force her hand as she can't seem to make a decision.

Opinions needed!

Well, my opinion is that if you're asking her to sell the house, if you're moving forward with divorce plans, if you're "ready to move on"...you're not in plan A, nor are you in plan B.

You're getting your goals confused. You CANNOT work divorce and plan A at the same time. They are two distinct, seperate goals. One is for the dissolution of the marriage, one is for the recovery of it.

What's YOUR goal?
What's YOUR plan to reach YOUR goal?

I don't see any evidence of MB style planning in your posts at the moment. Once your goal is clear, your plans on how to get there should be clearer too.

Your right I'm confused.

My goal was to save my marriage and deep down still is, but we are going to have to separate legally in the short term. My boundaries are that OM doesn't come near my house. If I move out then she will bring him in and that I won't be able to handle. I can't afford to rent without the sale of the house and she has squandered the money she gets, so she can't afford and OM has still not stomped anything up for the 2 of them.

She refuses to go to mediation or MC and wants the courts to decide. If the courts rule in her favour then I may loose the home. By selling it and going for legal separation I remain in Plan B for now. I can't see how we can raise funds to pay for furniture and a deposit for a home suitable for myself and 2 boys without the sale of the house. Failing that I move home and she moves out and it becomes her problem. But to see my boys live in a 1 bedroom flat isn't good or should I be cruel to be kind.

I've been living at my brothers for the times I'm at work for almost 3 months and nothing has changed but this is causing problems with my brother. Her behaviour is effecting him and his relationship.

You're not in plan B if you're talking with her about selling the house.

I say that if you want to do plan A...you need to move back into the house. If she doesn't like it, she can move out...WITHOUT the kids.

If you want to go to plan B...move back in the house and tell HER to get out...without the kids.

You're not the 'wayward one' here. Make it clear that you're going to stand your ground.

I don't remember...is the house in your name or hers? If its hers...there still shouldn't be any grounds for NOT living there...you're still married. Unless she's got an RO or something, you belong there too.

Hopefully you'll get some other posters in to help you out too.

The house in is joint names and I agreed to moving out while at work and she moves out while I'm off for stability to the boys until we agreed a way forward. This was agreed at mediation. I can't go to mediation and not mediate and to be honest they don't care how your relationship is ending.

My boys are my biggest concern, but I start work at 6:00am and also do nights, so I cant have anyone look after them.

Why can't you go to mediation and not mediate...isn't that exactly what your WW is doing???

Do you truly think that leaving your boys with your WW is in THEIR best interests right now?

From my perspective, there's no pressure whatsoever on your wife to end the affair. And she's not running into major obstacles in getting a divorce...there's nothing to change the situation to make her want to reconsider her choices.

She's getting exactly what she wants from you. She's making all the decisions. She's setting the stage and setting the pace for how and what happens.

Why SHOULD she change anything right now? She's got it made.

What needs to happen is that SOMETHING needs to change to make her life in the affair worse. MUCH worse. She's not suffering any 'consequences' for her choices.

Plan A should also include pressure on her to end her affair. How is that pressure being applied to her right now? Part of it is normally done through exposure, and the rest is done through allowing her to 'suffer the consequences of her choices'.

One other thing,

I due to fly out on holiday to Florida with all my In-laws in just over 3 weeks and I've just started to build bridges with my MIL and FIL and for them to invite me to their house the other day was a big step forward to where we have been. Moving back home now will kick things off again so I'm not sure whether to move back after the holiday.

I agree with Owl's latest posts. I think moving out part time was a mistake as it played into what she wanted...you out of the house, her and the kids in the house. One foot out the door so to speak.

At this point, were I you, I would be doing my best to maintain my home and my kids' lives in as normal a state as possible, meaning they are there all the time, you are there all the time, and mom is there when she chooses to be.

I think she is showing signs that she is willing to work on the marriage but is just looking to make sure she can trust you will do your part. Plan A shows her this.

Stick to your guns, man, you can still save your marriage. Don't agree to anything that takes it in the other direction. Stop worrying about court, handle that when it comes but have yourself in the best position at that time. And STAY ON MESSAGE! Be a broken record if you have to but don't give ground.

Best of luck.

Moving out part time is something we both do, its not just me. But I needed to move to some sort of Plan B as there was too many LB's for my liking. Its only been the last couple of days we have really spoke other than that I've avoided her as best I can and barely talk when exchanging with the boys and now they are back at school the only time I see her is when she comes home at 5:30am as I start my day. So I've been in part Plan A and part Plan B, so to speak. The house is clean and tidy, nothing needs doing when she returns all the bills are paid that I have to pay and I let her pay the remaining. I have fun with my boys and do stuff like cooking brownies, bread etc, bike riding and swimming. So until the house is sold I can't move into Plan B fully, but moving back home and staying with Plan A will be hard. I have spoken to Dr Harley and he has said I may need to move out before the courts force it, but that it will definitely end within 2 years, if I'm willing to wait that long, but no one could blame me for calling it a day. I'm starting to wonder whether I should surrender an endowment policy to release funds to furnish a new home, but on the understanding that if OM enters house it gets sold.

The holiday has been in planning for over 2 years and all my in-laws have said that if only one of us go it should be me, as I've been heavily involved in the planning. My boys have been so looking forward to this holiday it would be wrong to push things now just before we go away. It also allows me to cement my relationship with them more.

I have exposed her affair to everyone who can put pressure on her and OM lives with his parents so there is nothing I can do to pressure them that I haven't already done. Steve Harley believes that talking to them again will only get them to defend their corner, so would be a waste of time.

I hear you and understand. I was reading your posts and it brought me back to the days when my wife had the same attitude as yours. She had an EA in which she reinitiated contact with her high school sweetheart, then all of a sudden, she had never loved me, had "settled" for me, felt that I was selfish, and wanted to get a divorce. Then I discovered the EA.

It was like two magnets with us back then. When I was miserable, pleading, angry, etc., she solidified her resolve to leave. When I was telling her that I wanted to make our home a safe place for her and didn't want her to leave, while doing all the plan A stuff, she did what your wife is doing, things like watching me while I played with our daughter, saying things that gave me a little hope.

Meanwhile, inside my chest was this horrible pain and anger. I walled it off like a pearl in an oyster. Over time there was less and less "D" talk and more and more hopeful signs. One day she held my hand while we were shopping. Weeks later she "spooned" me in bed. It took a lot of time and patience, but we got there.

I know that she is saying things that make you crazy, and I know that that OM being in your life is maddening. You didn't choose this path, you chose the path of being a husband and father. Yet now, you are being dragged in a direction you don't want to go. And those things that make you crazy just make you want to escape from those bad feelings. And if that escape ends up with a D, then there you will be, there she will be, and your boys will be living out of suitcases.

What helped me to put aside my hurt and anger was my little girl. I remembered growing up knowing my mom was off somewhere living a life for her, and that she wasn't there every night when I needed her. I didn't want that for my daughter and I knew that her needs far outweighed my own.

So, when you are feeling like you can't handle the stress anymore, please imagine two little suitcases by the door, waves goodbye, and wondering what they are up to that day. And remember that the woman you married is still in there somewhere. She's possessed and needs an exorcist. Nobody can get that demon (OM addiction) out of her system but you.

I hope you see all I have said as words of encouragement. I see that you are feeling beaten down, but I know you can do this. God bless and good luck.