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TA, That was a really unique post. Thanks for adding something new to this discussion. Hey, my H was unfaithful (multiple OWs) for 17 years. By the symmetry argument, I still have 12 years to go before I can contemplate recovery.... But I can tell you aren't going to wait that long, are you? I know I haven't, but I think everyone must find their own timeline. But I look at the AM threads (rarely post) and try to learn. And I agree there is alot to learn. Almost every marriage that comes to MB is in trouble....when that's an affair marriage...I admit to feeling that karma has come full circle and justice has been served. It's also an acknowledgement to me that "lengthy" does not equal "happy". Pep's point about adultery being written into the deal between AM partners is one of the few apposite remarks produced by this debate. I've also made this statement. Affairs have consequences built right into them. A relationship whose foundation is dishonesty and infidelity is a building waiting to crumble. But few AM posters ever acknowledge that deal. Few AM posters come here and admit to be AM posters either. However, those who do....and stick around....cannot escape acknowledging that truth....because no one here will ignore it. I am fascinated by the ways they twist and wriggle to escape the truth that they tacitly accepted their spouse's entitlement to cheat at any point. AM posters who twist and wriggle are tolerated even less than the ones that have been discussed here. I am fascinated by the rationalisations, evasions and contortions..because....I want to be able to recognise them in myself if I am ever tempted... Maybe we are all tempted to cheat, but any immature thoughts I may have had in that vein were squashed long ago by spending time on this board. It's not a very tempting option for me, and probably not for you either. I am 12 years from recovery and the recurring rage at the insult leaves me chronically vulnerable. That sounds both painful and long. How long anyone takes to recover is influenced by history, external factors....but also by choice. I hope your healing goes faster than 12 years. I don't see happiness, or self-esteem, or joy in any of these AM cases. I see a clutching at something that 'looks' like happiness. I agree, which is probably why I'm not as triggered by these posts. What I see is an affair marriage failing by the same lack of ethics that created it. It is a constant reminder to me of where I don't want to go, no matter how mad I feel, how justified in taking, how aware I am that the world would 'understand'...
The pain of AM spouses, down the line, is my biggest disincentive to straying down that path in a moment of weakness... In many ways, I think we should be grateful that they're here.
They're certainly not an advert for infidelity. I don't think so either, but there have certainly been some well presented arguments that they DO encourage WSs and OPs. Thanks again for all the good food for thought.
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Actually some people probably think marriages are like Depends : they should both be changed often when they get too full of cr4p. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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TA Coming from Dudley as I do, as you can imagine I speak exactly like Brian Sewell <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ...weeping with laughter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (You have to know what Dudleyans/Brian Sewell sound like.) Dudley, pron. Doadloy TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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Actually some people probably think marriages are like Depends : they should both be changed often when they get too full of cr4p. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ???? you mean this is not true???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
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bOb and TA,
I will give you odds Omelette (remember your countrywoman Alphin?) will come to MB in, maybe 2 years, when her affair marriage suffers the inevitable dysfunction. She knows all about MB from stalking Alphin. I bet Omelette tries MB on for size when Aplhin's WS is yet again true to his colors.
Do either of you think you could stomach her being here for help with her arriage? Even if you ignored her? It would seem to me like a hidden cancer, sinister, spreading and reproducing insidiously.
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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I'd love to see Omlette here ... I'm ready ... BIZARRO PEP is ready, I should say
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besides .... Alphin's x-husband simply "married for the wrong reasons" .... as noted on *ahem* another thread NOT discussing this topic
ROFLMAO PIMD
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Dudley was the cradle of the industrial revolution, is 20 miles from Shakespeare's birthplace and is considered to be an amusing rat hole by southern softies like TA Actually, Bob, I come from Glasgow, world capital of marine engineering and drunks-in-gutters! But I do live in the south where the weather's better...because I am a softie... TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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Aph, I wouldn't help her, of course. Others here would though.
Maybe those folks who didn't talk Alphin "down from the roof" night after night as I did , 'cos they weren't in her time zone like me would think "Omelette's" rights to be helped was equal etc etc.
I wouldn't give her the steam off my p1ss. I don't know what I would do if others helped her. I just don't.
I hope that answers your question ?
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I'd loose the hounds of HEII on her, I would
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I figured you would be ready for her Pep.
But then, if you were perceived to be somewhat mean to her a whole bunch of bleeding hearts would feel their own imperative to criticise you.
Wait, you are ready for them too, aren't you...I almost forgot, LOL.
with prayers,
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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GlasgowNow I've seen everything ! If I wasn't low enough now I've had my accent mocked by a sweaty sock ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> "ev ye drunk wine doon the graveyard, big yin ?" I worked in Glasgow - Broomielaw for a year in 1994. Thorughly enjoyed it. Stayed in the Hilton nr Charing Cross. Bon accord, Mitchells restaurant ..the Cathouse... king tuts wah wah hut* sigh *
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I'd loose the hounds of HEII on her, I would
"Cry "HAVOC !" and let slip the Dogs of War..."
* goosebumps *
Thats some war cry there from my fellow Midlander Bill Shakespeare.
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But then, if you were perceived to be somewhat mean to her a whole bunch of bleading hearts would feel their own imperative to criticise you. criticism is awesome! keeps me tools sharpened don't mind one bit
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Aphelion
HEY!
I did not become this AWESOME by ignoring critics yanno !
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That's my point bOb. Those who don't know the specific reality, the magnitude of the agony the affair marriage caused/may yet cause seem to think whatever it was it should all be ignored for the sake of some greater good.
I believe the karma, or whatever you want to call it, is over-all negative when helping an affair marriage. Sure, maybe the amateurs on MB can help the spouses solve their issues (probably not). But the damage such apparent and tacit approval of an affair marriage does to arriving BS and to society’s acceptance of affairs in general more than offsets it.
If the greater good were indeed the goal, arraiges would be called on the carpet, not helped to survive their built-in dysfunction. It’s a misuse of compassion, IMO. The greater compassion is owed the original BS and family.
The devil is always in the details.
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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I submit that this should be added to the list of acronymns. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
ba109
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ba ... I appreciate your noticing my funny little efforts to amuse
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See Aph I think about the guaranteed pain in the wake of every A-marriage.In fact the agony of XBS are the very foundation stones of A-marriges. Almost the sacrifical blood required for the spell to work, as in voodoo. "Take the hope and viability of one or two marriages, add the existential agony of the XBS. Allow to set then build your affair marriage on that while chanting " I have a right to be happy. What about my needs ? I have a right to be happy ! What about....." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Yeah, I get it bOb.
The entire premise and foundation of MB is sold as a method to prevent affairs in general and affair marriages in particular. But, heaven forbid, if an affair does proceed to civil marriage it is suddenly as acceptable here as any other marriage.
Mods, rules and Harley's intentions fully accepted, I may as well have my own affair. You guys are all going to accept it as soon as I marry OW, right?
Serious question, actually.
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan
"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky
WS: They are who they are.
When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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