And LH, I have forgiven my mother and now am finding myself in the uncomfortable position of being a support to her OMH. The irony is not lost on me. I am NOT ok with A marriages. Then again, I am not recovered from my H's A's, the OC birth, the assault from the OW, the betrayal by my MIL and SIL etc. I have forgiven my H, the rest will come when I am ready I suppose.

That's so sad, FF. I'm glad you've been able to break the cycle. It takes guts to evaluate yourself and deal with the unpleasantness you find. My hat's off to you.

^Bump^

I don't want this to get too far away from the top of the threads just in case a new arrival comes in.

If you’re not in recovery, and you’re despirited "Affair Marriages" exist, please contact me, or join in this thread. I'm a victim of an "Affair Marriage" myself, and I'll be glad to walk with you through the problems you're having with this. I'm sure others will help also.

can anyone say Grandstanding

Longhorn

Please read this thread

Then answer me :

If HD2s XWH came to you for help on these boards for marriage help would you help him ? If not why not ?

I'm sure he would Bob. If they have 2 beautiful children it will be a certainty.

Not Longhorn. But for what it's worth and as if there is a surprise, I like you, I hope they are able to feel and enjoy the pain that they have created for everyone else around them.

I didn't read the link, BP, because it wouldn't matter what the circumstances are in a marital situation. I'm not a hypocrite. If anyone, truly repentant and remorseful, came asking for help to get their lives back together, you're absolutely right...I'd do everything I could to help them.

In case a new arrival comes in, I want those who aren’t in recovery to know someone is here to work with you if you are disillusioned because "Affair Marriages" actually exist and are discussed on this board. Please contact me, or join in this thread if that applies to you.

I'm a victim of an "Affair Marriage" myself, and I'll be glad to walk with you through the problems you're having with this.

Even if that spat in the eye of their BS ?

And if you had not been too cowardly to read the link you'd see that HD2 is a BW whose XWH is getting married to OW soon.

You said you'd not reject anyone who needed help right ?

So who you gonna help here - HD2 or her XWH ?

See I believe that her XWHs affair marrige will collapse in a heap pretty soon, starting a sit is with a casino ceremony.

HD2 still has a candle lit for her XWH. I reckon if it failed soon enough there'd be a real chance of reconciliation such is HD2s generous heart.

When the A marriage fails, Longhorn who do you help - the first marriage or the second one ?

"In case a new arrival comes in, I want those who aren’t in recovery to know someone is here to work with you if you are disillusioned because "Affair Marriages" actually exist and are discussed on this board."

Let's be accurate. That arriages are discussed on MB is not a problem. That they are actively supported, and advised as to how to best continue is. A problem. To me.

In the arriage advice given in the currently active threads, why is it so rare (as in non existent) that they make amends, apologize to their original BS, and actually do something constructive in asking for forgiveness? Is it because they would not do it in the first place? Even those supposedly remorseful people in the specific arriages under consideration say atonement isn't possible, not productive, too late or otherwise have some excuse as to why they can't do it. Can't actually address the damage they did by the affair in the first place.

An affair marriage is just a VLTA with a signed piece of paper making it somewhat socially acceptable and legal. Nothing more.

The horrors these people visited on innocents is manifold. Suicide, lost homes, children of broken homes, lost futures... Need I go on? Need I make you uncomfortable? And you just ignore it. Because - err, because you pretend they are remorseful but accept they can't/won't actually get up off their butt and do something, anything, to atone directly to their victims.

You would not make a very good AA sponsor. You tend to agree with the addict they may skip uncomfortable steps in recovery, huh.

What they need is to fix themselves, not their arriage.

Appy wrote:


Thank you, Appy. You beat me to it.

BP, you set up a false premise. There is no reason to do only one thing or the other. I'd help both, BP. What do you not understand about that?

Now, I admit I don’t have any idea what you mean by, “…starting a sit is with a casino ceremony.” Perhaps you could explain?

No, never mind. You aren't arguing logically, BP and I suspect you’ve decided you will not even try. You keep using ridicule and mockery as the only tools in your diatribes, essentially using a policy of personal destruction to “convince” others to come to your side. Since, in your zealotry, you decline to use logic and show no respect for other people and their opinions BP, I’m putting you on ignore.

If you ever decide to forego such deceitful tactics, drop me an email, okay? You won’t have to apologize. Just asking to resume contact and stating your willingness to stop using those tactics will be more than sufficient. I’ll forgive you on the spot.

There is no deceit in my premise. No tactics. You are seriously gaslighting me in your response.

If you had read the thread in my link you would know about the casino.

How would you help BOTH HD2 and her XWH LH ? Please explain.

How could you help support the affair marriage and the original marriage restoration ?

How do you comfort the BS while you are offering marrigebuilding support to the XWS ?

There is frosty logic in my challenge to you LH. What is illogical is your assertion that you can support both the AS a-marriage and the BS at the same time.

By helping affair marriages you are at least disheartening their BS and or all BS. You are deluding yourself if you do not see that IMO.

LH,
How can you help friend AND foe and still be taken seriously by either?

THAT sounds really close to lukewarm to me... which is NOT God's favorite temperature.

Wouldn't you need to stand on SOME side??

Either that of the BS. Or that of the WS.

I am interested in knowing whcih you would choose.

First of all I want LH to know that (as my mother says) "love him to death" and have gotten much needed and wonderful advice. I have seen him do the same with many, many others.

That said, I think Aphelion wrote this;

"An affair marriage is just a VLTA with a signed piece of paper making it somewhat socially acceptable and legal. Nothing more."

If a BS sees the affair marriage like this nothing anyone says or does to enable, support, encourage, two individuals in an affair marriage is going to be received well. If one believes that an affair marriage is just an attempt to legitmize the illegimate then it will never be accepted by a BS and therefore anyone helping to support or do damage control as an affair marriage is in the death throes is seen as an enabler which I know that you are not.

My EX WW will soon marry the losing POS that along with her helped destroy our family and cost her custody of our two year old son. I have told her married or unmarried matters not to me that it is illegitimate and that OM,New Husband, etc will only ever be an intruder, a thief to me or our son, period.

I think affair marriages (again I want to qualify this) that have spouses who have truly shown remorse, repentance, who have attempted (accepted or not) to make amends with those they devestated to get their "fantasy", etc deserve some help. Them breaking up, or breaking up other marriages by having further affairs helps no one. So, I hope they get help. But, my argument is why should those very few people get help in a place that may send the wrong message to WS's who may yet become FWS's or be offered solice in a place where the very type of person they have harmed is seeking that same help and solice in far, far greater numbers and in truth with a lot purer reason for being here.

Just my two cents. Either way I am grateful for the help that LH gave me when I came her and has given countless others. We may just have to agree to disagree on this topic and that's alright with me.

Aphelion, thank you for your opinion. I do not disparage any person's opinion; I hope you'll agree I have a right to one also, no matter how contrary.

I’d like to ask you a couple of questions though, if I might.


Would you please provide your support for that statement? I can find nothing in the Bible or in the laws of my state that would make that any more than a moral judgment. You’re entitled to make those judgments, btw. I’m just interested.


No, you don’t make me uncomfortable, Aphelion. Remember, I am the victim of an “Affair Marriage.” I’ve experienced such things first hand and you’re only reciting things I’m already intimate with. I suppose I could protest you’re being a little mean spirited by trying to make me feel that pain all over again, but I forgive you. But, in a larger sense, what you’ve reiterated above is actually what happens in ANY infidelity. Surely you understand such things are not unique to affairs that then result in other marriages?


No, I’m not ignoring anyone’s pain, Aphelion. That’s the whole point. I want to help anyone in pain from marital discord.

You’re entirely correct in one respect…yes, I do pay attention to expressions of remorse. How can I know what is in another’s heart when they say speak words full of remorse and guilt? I’ve made a decision to take everyone in the world at face value, Aphelion, until I read deception in their words. Aphelion, if I refused to accept such expressions from Zog, I’d have to refuse them from the formerly wayward spouses anywhere on this board, wouldn’t I? If I can’t believe one group of individuals, then I can’t believe any, now can I? Have you approached any of the FWS’s on this board and expressed the viewpoint that you believe they are lying when they say they regret what they did?

If you’ve reviewed Zog’s thread, you’d find a lot of remorse and considerable expressions of guilt. If you remember, he gave his betrayed wife everything he had at the time of the divorce. He has made inquiries from time to time since their divorce 28 years ago and has found out she’s all right and happy. Did you not see those posts?

Atonement is a good issue, Aphelion. Thank you for raising it. What would you advise in such cases? How may Zog and others achieve redemption in your eyes? When they’ve asked God for forgiveness, and God assures us in the Bible it will be given, then what must they do in order to be granted succor from you? This is a serious question, Aphelion. Please don’t answer facetiously. Zog, for instance, is not omnipotent. He can’t go back 28 years into the past and do anything. Please don’t stoop to petulantly demanding he end his marriage and go back to his ex wife. That’s not intellectually honest and I’m sincerely interested in a discussion of Christian redemption.

I wouldn’t make a good AA sponsor? Well, that’s true, I suppose. I’m pretty sure all of them are former alcoholics, aren’t they? If I’m wrong, perhaps I should investigate volunteering for such a position…but I’m awfully busy now. I already volunteer for a number of retired military functions, including helping counsel men and women separated from their spouses by military orders and/or deployment. I’m also active in local conservative politics, blood drives, a child advocacy group, and a few other things. Having retired from the armed forces ten years ago, I’m busier than I ever was in the military, but I’ll check into the AA sponsor matter.

If you’re implying I can’t apply “tough love,” Aphelion, I suggest you go back and read the threads to which I’ve contributed. Some folks have compared me to some kind of “velvet hammer.” <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope to see a reasoned, measured response from you, Aphelion. Good, intellectual discourse is what this nation is built on.

Hi, Patriot. I hope all is well with you and yours. I hope all the difficult problems have been resolved in the months since I’ve seen you post on this board. If your marriage has recovered, will you not consider coming back to MB more often to help those in need? We need more helpers out here and you’d be a good one with your experience as a FWH to work with some of the more difficult cases. Please consider returning to us, okay?

Patriot, I don't think I'm in danger of not being taken seriously by any person hurt by marital infidelity. Has anyone still trying to recover suggested such to you? If they have, please ask them to come here and I’ll do my best to help them too. I’ve opened up my email account if anyone feels they’d be more comfortable using that means of communication in the short term.

As a matter of fact, Patriot, betrayed spouses and wayward ones alike have sent me private emails lauding my efforts to be conciliatory and for not responding in kind to what they consider to be rather vicious attacks. These are people who hesitate to post publicly because the think they'll be viciously castigated if they do, and they’re not in a good enough mental state to withstand that at the moment. Isn’t it a shame, Patriot...that they would have to stay in the shadows because of the unkind attitudes of some folks?

Anyway, please think seriously about your and your wife coming back to MB to help out those who could benefit from both your experiences. We miss you.

I'm sorry hopeandpray. I see you’ve posted, but I don’t see what you’ve said. I forgot to let you know you have joined BP, MrW, MEDC and a couple others on my "Ignore" list. I apologize for not notifying you first. If you ever feel you'd like to reestablish contact with me, send me an email and disavow the practice of personal destruction, okay? I'd be ready to forgive you, as I’m ready to forgive them. I hope you know that.

^Bump^

I don't want to get too far off topic here. This thread was established to help those still vulnerable and possibly dismayed that "Affair Marriages" actually exist and are discussed on this board. Please contact me by email, or join in this thread if that applies to you.

I'm a victim of an "Affair Marriage" myself, and I'll be glad to walk with you through the problems you're having with this.