Well, perhaps then madmax, you could stay here 24x7, working with and devising a plan for each and every newbie that logs onto the site...based on their "uniqueness", instead of having a generalized plan that works in the best interest of the MAJORITY of cases.

That makes sense to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


What bothers me about your posts on this thread is that your seeming intent is more of a pot shot at Mel, who by the way spends an incredible amount of time working with the members, then a genuine concern for the people you are supposedly worried about.

Had it been a genuine concern, you would have simply stated what you see as the exceptions to rule, and laid out a better plan for their uinique circumstance (ie cases of abuse where the safety of the children are at risk). But even then you have not addressed whether the BS is supposed to take the children with, or just leave the house to end the "toxicity".

This is an important thread and you are using it to play a game. I have been reading here for 4 years now, and I agree 100% with Mels generalization, not only by the stories I have followed, but because in theory, regarding the laws of divorce and child custody, as well as in the plans to get a WS to face their consequences and be more likely to return to the marriage and family.

ahhh, now we are back to a principle?

OK Mel ...what's 'The chioce Theory'?

I will bet my bottom bum dollar.
This site is built using/utilising it's theories.

Max

PS ...I want to know as... as you quoted me about 2 yrs ago..a very ( blank) part of it....give ya a hint....the post was in reply to a smartcookie.

I keep thinking of the old saying, "It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I think MadMax has good reason to be as evasive and unclear as possible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

No Weaver I am not playing a game.

I have been visiting this website/venue for about 7 yrs now on and off.

In that time I "skilled up"..and copped a bit of crap on the way.

What concerns me here-is one mindedness.

I can and will be the first to admit-adultery sucks.

but why keep swimmimg in it?

In all honesty I was drawn here ( back) when I started studying again. Just to see how all was going...I now work in welfare and I do care. This site has often told me what not to say.

yet sometimes there is a lot of wisdom. I Just wish it was more often...than I would not get my pants up eh?

Max

MM, your posts don't demonstrate any skill at all, though, much less an ability to articulate your points or even understand the subject at hand. I think if you did care, then you would try and help here, rather than hinder. The proof is in the pudding.

It would be better to offer wisdom, then to get your pants all twisted. Don't you think?

In other words, if you have some additional wisdom, please offer it up.

What happens when the people who are here helping others, who have a gift in this area, are run off? Who will come to replace them?

I know for me, I can only follow one or two threads at a time, and even then I do not have the "gift" as Mel and so many others do. So I spend a lot of my time trying to support THEM. They need support, not pot shots, not negativity to the point they are run off. Or their gift or wisdom is burried in muck so that newbies can not decipher what is meaningful.

Do you see the wisdom in that madmax?

Mel ,
I do wish you well.
********EDIT************

That does it! I am docking this thread one star! I would take more but it won't let me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think I said Pants up eh...bit different from twisted...

I know a lot of people here need support-I feel a lot of it though is twisted or a better word...biased...because of peoples own experiences.

And that in my opinion-is dangerous

Max

MadMax:

You are the one who sounds bitter - not Mel.

You post an obscure objection in this thread.

You refuse to explain your objection.

You immediately start pretending requests for further explanation of your purposely vague and nu-uh-you're-wrong-I'm-right objection, can't possibly be genuine requests for more specifics... EVERYONE must be PRETENDING to not understand what your vague post meant... are you under the false impression that our real motives for posting here @ MB's is to pick on you?

Oh and LA: Are you planning on joining in on this discussion of the TOPIC? I may be wrong but so far all I've seen from you were two posts to 'defend' MadMax... um why would anyone have to be 'defended' from requests to explain their POV further on an internet message board? Posting on an internet message board is not like simply slapping a bumper sticker on a car or shouting a slogan at a rally... it's entirely appropriate for those who post online to be expected to explain and defend their POV.
LA do you have any opinion whatsoever about the topic of this thread? It's just sort of strange (suspect) that you would even bother to post in a thread about a topic you have nothing to say about...

Feelings are not truth, though. Everyone is biased, "because of peoples own experiences," even you.

Exactly. See... anyone can take words and twist them... which you seem to thrive on doing. If you're so anti-MB, then why are you here? Seriously. You say you've been around for 7 years?!? There must be something here that draws you. Your intentional vagueness just makes you look silly. Your animosity against ML and some of the others is anything but transparent.

ML is exactly right. I've been in the legal field for many many years and she is absolutely correct in her advice. The only exception would be if there was some kind of physical abuse involving the BS or the children. And if that was your point also, then why the heck didn't you just say so in the beginning instead of being antagonistic and intentionally vague?

I came back for that?

MK ...slap ME..it would make me feel much better again.

Max

How in the world you would get "bitter" from well reasoned GOOD advice I do not know...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

A couple things about the word "bitter" as used here...

1. Even if it were true in this case, which I happen to KNOW, it's not, why in the WORLD would you wish to use that as an "insult" to someone if they actually were "bitter"? Bitter that would mean HURTING...Wow, THAT is cruel! Yeah, you are SO helpful Max...

and

2. I've noticed that the word "bitter" is very often used here when someone is unable to support their assertions...Pretty lame way to get around their own ignorance, imo...

Mrs. W

"OK lets discuss the kids."

Yes, lets.

"You Mel are saying in each and every case for the BS not to leave the marital home---yeah? What if that environment is soooo toxic? And an unskileed BS cannot deal with it--lets not forget---"

Even the most hurt and upset of betrayed spouses can and often do quickly acquire the skills to deal very effectively with even the most wicked of waywards. This MB site has lots of advice and support for helping betrayed spouses keep their calm when the wayward spouse tries to push their buttons, how to deal with fog-babble, etc. I might agree that WITHOUT this site and WITHOUT the help and dedication of people like Melody, there would be a big risk of a betrayed spouse not being able to cope effectively with staying in the same house with a wayward.

"What if there is such unhappiness and discord in that house/enviroment-that it has broad and damaging effects on the children?"

Are you assuming that the presence of the betrayed spouse is the major cause of the unhappiness and discord? And that therefore the removal of the betrayed spouse from the home would be the cure? Although it is true that sometimes a betrayed spouse may take the bait the adulterous spouse constantly throws out in an attempt to start an argument (that they can then pretend is their justification for the adultery - that the 'marriage is dead', the betrayed spouse is 'impossible to live with', whatever...) it is almost without exception the betrayed spouse who is behaving in the more sane, calm, consistent manner while the adulterous spouse is acting like a totally insane alien. Therefore it makes a LOT more sense for the betrayed spouse to stay in the home with the children and for the adulterous alien to leave.

"Whats your plan?"

IMHO especially when the adulterous parent is being the most vile, destructive, and unreasonable the un-adulterous parent should remain calm and remain in the home FOR the sake of the chidlren.

What's YOUR plan? To abandon the children to the insanity and danger of being left alone in the presence of the parent who's behaving as an addict?!?!? Is that what child protective services is up to these days? Advising the non-addicted parent to abandon their children and home to the addicted parent? Then the addict's sleazy supplier can start coming to the home and around the children? Yeah I bet that's real effective at 'protecting' children from harmful influence - NOT!

Oh lord, here we go, right back to square one. And right when I thought we were making progress.

Reminds me of the occasional disgruntled employee we get. You know the one whose only seeming aim at the company is to cause dissention, loudly and repeatedly voice the same complaints to anyone who will listen, cause negativity and take away from creativity...

And never once offer an alternative. Do nothing to try and make it better other than their loud and useless voiced complaints about how the brass is doing it all wrong.

Funny thing about those disgruntled employees though, is when we get rid of them, production often increases so much from losing their negativity that we don't even have to replace them.

They are that big of a drain and distraction from the company goals.

You might want to think about that madmax, the next time your panties get "up", and you have nothing better to offer then your displeasure.

feelings are not truth,,, please explain? Where did that come from?

Max

A reminder----------------

This is a MARRIAGE BUILDERS SUPPORT Forum.

A place to offer & receive suggestions, advice & support while using Marriage Builders Concepts & Principles.

Yes, just because you feel something does not mean it is truth. That came from my mouth.

MadMax

At the risk of being called 'bitter' or 'biased' I will offer up an example from my own personal experience to back up my POV on this topic:

My mother had a few adulterous relationships during my childhood. Yes, there were some arguments between my parents because of that. But my father remained calm and never reacted with violence - either verbal or physical. My mother on the other hand was a raving lunatic whenever she was under the influence of adultery. I thank God that my father did not abandon us by leaving the home! The ONLY time he was away from the home and his children was when he had to go to Viet Nam for a year. And yes, my mother did have an OP while my father was away. I do not refer to this OP as an OM because he was only two years older than me - he was only 16 and I was 14. My mother acted like a total disgusting fool during that year. We children were exposed to all sorts of disgusting things that children should not have to see and hear. BOTH my mother and her adulterous partner were a very bad influence on the children to say the least.

Now if you had been consulted as somebody supposedly employed to protect children in such circumstances, are you saying that you would object to my father being advised to remain in the home and with us children in response to the toxicity that my adulterous mother was infecting the household with?!? Because there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER in my mind that if my father had moved out during my mother's other adulteries we chidlren would have been exposed to much harm during those adulteries too. My father's presence was greatly needed and appreciated BECAUSE of the toxicity!

Also, even though I was certainly old enough to understand that my father HAD to go to Viet Nam and that he probably was not aware of what was going on back at home, and that even if he did suspect he might have limited ability to do anythign about it, some part of me still felt sort of abandoned by him. Of course I knew that it was my mother's fault what was going on, but I felt sort of let down by my father's inability to be there for us kids. Now if my father was not already out of the home because he was ordered overseas, and someone like you had advised him to leave the home, supposedly for the sake of the kids, because my mother was doing her darndest to make the situation as sick and toxic as all get-out, I am 100% CONFIDENT that my father would have told you that your advice is just plain dumb! I KNOW my father would not have abandoned us no matter what toxicity my mother would have resorted to. And if he somehow could have been convinced by some meddler such as yourself that it would be best for us kids if he would leave, then I am 100% confident that not a single one of us 8 kids would have agreed with you and we would have just felt abandoned by him - abandoned to the insanity that my adulterous parent and her adultery partners would have exposed us to.

My father is no longer with us but I thank God every day for his sane and loving pesence throughout my childhood.

Now you can call me 'biased' and 'bitter' if you get some sort of cheap thrill or sense of superiority out of doing so, but there is no way you can convince me that my father should have taken advice from somebody like you vs somebody like Melody BECAUSE I KNOW from EXPERIENCE that you are flat out wrong and are doing more harm than good with your brand of advice!