There IS a special board, TOW. And from time to time, wayward wives get coddled on WI as well when Langley wants to stir the pot.

Larry

I knew about TOW, but what is WI, Larry?

but what is WI

ahemmm.

Wiconsin? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

committed

ML,


I am so tempted to answer you like you answered me.



Did you read that? I'm not even on advil. For all the destruction I've caused in this world, I have never done drugs...and was serious when I said I didn't really know what narcotics were and thanked you for telling me.

How do you benefit from such accusations? You don't understand my statements...I don't understand your logic. I don't think you're on drugs because you find my statements to be whacky.

Why would expect someone to answer your questions when you consistently ignore theirs? I'm answering because I don't want to do what you do...I'm acknowledging the temptations. I know I can't educate you...you are well educated.

I have no idea why you're really here on MB anymore ML. I don't see you learning and growing. I see you instructing others...a voice of clarity. I can see the giving back. What I don't get is what you're really taking and at what cost to others.

Good to know neither of us are on narcotics. I know you believe my posts are incomprehensible to you.

I write them, anyway. I have faith we can understand one another. I see you as having a valuable lesson for me. I can't comprehend your choice to manipulate and attack people, not ideas. Like your term "psychobabble"...disparages a whole field, not just my beliefs. I get that you don't believe the same. What is incomprehensible to me is that you don't choose to respect.

LA

Truth be told, they are incomprehensible to many. Most people don't speak the language of psychobabble, nor are they enamored with it. I can't respect what I don't even understand. But that certainly doesn't mean others don't find value in it and can actually figure them out. I can't and never could. Others might!

Just as my posts - and presence - don't seem helpful to you, they are helpful to some. I fully accept that it takes all kinds and that is the beauty of this board. That is why this is such an effective board, IMO.

Thanks for answering my question about narcotics, guess I will have to go back to the drawing board, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

feelings are impossible to dismiss because they just ARE

I was trying to get to the point of being able to discuss TAKING RESPONSIBILITY and ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the facts that choices lead down a predictable road most of the time

I DID some of this crap when I was young & wild and a hippie ... NOT when I was in my middle adult years/married/a parent .... looking at a 3rd or 4th marriage

What is interesting/sad/sickening to me .... there are CHILDREN involved in these families .... and they are hardly mentioned, except in passing

the collateral damage of children makes this especially disturbing

why do parents with small children rush out to meet a new partner when the ink on the divorce is not even dry?

why can't they spend a year or two or three getting their small child taken care of EMOTIONALLY .... instead of surfing the net looking for their next X spouse?

the children need their parents to pay attention to THEM when there is a terrible horrible divorce .... sad

ML,



Thank you for answering my question about narcotics as well. As for my drawing board...I've heard power can have a narcotic affect. I'm wondering about it.

Real friends don't support you in destructive behavior. They bring out the best in you...as you said, challenges are the best medicine (non-narcotic).

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LA

Interesting. I have heard the same thing about waywardness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> also wondering........

and while I am on a rant/vent

this all reminds me of the Danielle van Dam murder trial in San Diego .... she was kidnapped while her parents were ~swinging~

and I know this was not a DIRECT cause of her abduction/murder

however, she became the object of Westerfield's attention IN PART because he became aware that the kids in that family were NOT WELL SUPERVISED because the parents were busy screwing around

/vent

Is it too much to ask parents to sacrifice orgasms with people other than their lawful spouse for the health/welfare/future hope of their precious children?????????

WHY IS THIS NOT THEIR PRIORITY?????????

For all of you getting ANOTHER divorce
SWINGING instead of PARENTING
SWAPPING instead of CHERISHING

for all of you having the sexual pleasures of a glutton at an all-you-can-eat diner

you are throwing your own children
or someone else's children

UNDER THE BUS

so you can have sex/thrills/drama

your "soulmeat" who was married with children before you became adulterous .... you threw CHILDREN UNDER THE BUS to get your rocks off

and I think it stinks!


HERE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I AM VERY JUDGEMENTAL WHEN IT COMES TO THIS

so sue me
call me black/white
tell me how "snooty" I am

and how does it help the kids???????

tell me how many excessive posts I've made ....

and i do not care

if I can help ONE FAMILY
ONE CHILD

you can call me names and criticize me
and make fun of me

all day long

because *I* do not matter

BUT CHILDREN DO

Pep, have you ever seen The Ice Storm. It is the most chilling (no pun intended) movie I've ever seen and it stays with me even now.

All "swingers" should get it out on DVD and be made to watch it with their eyes propped open with matchsticks just like in Clockwork Orange.

and if some people are too stupid
or too blind
or too selfish

to STOP AND CONSIDER

"gee, IS IT POSSIBLE that my desire to swap sex and share my spouse with other people .... IS IT POSSIBLE that this MIGHT cause damage to my family and thus my children?"

here's a CLUE

[color:"red"] IF YOU DO NOT WANT IT ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER OR SPREAD ALL OVER YOU-TUBE .... ***** DON'T DO IT *****

[/color]

genius

so

excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse
me

if I might be a *bit insensitive*

to "feelings"

when the adulerous/swinging marriage hits the rocks that were CLEARLY in FULL VIEW from a LONG distance

when the "feelings" of the children harmed were never ONCE mentioned!!!!!!

Er, Pep, just interrupting for a moment. Did you see my post above?

Here’s the thing chachanges.

When you cross the line into swinging you are no longer in the realm of normalcy that MB was designed for.

I can see that you are in pain from all of this. And I’m certainly sorrowful for your sufferings.

I think that the thing to do, having subjected yourself and your W to swinging, is to get into some serious IC asap.

It’s a complete debasement of self respect and the respect of all that is good to justify and execute a plan for swinging.

There are no rational positive for swinging in the eyes of a balanced person. I promise you this is true.

There are some that would say that for such abominable behavior, you and your W deserve everything that you get.

I say, that you are a human being, worthy of forgiveness and deserving of a chance to live repentant and earn forgiveness for your behavior.

After all, with your mate screwing other people, maybe right in front of you, what in the world would make her think that you valued her in any way; certainly she doesn’t value her own soul because if she did, then this would never have entered into her mind.

Were drugs and alcohol a part of this life style?

The problem that I have is the way that you seemed supportive of swinging as a tool for closeness.

If that’s true, then how’s it working for you so far?

You may have rationalized it as a way to be closer to your W, but that simply was not the case. The way that you justified and embraced this subject was your own intellect’s way of sorting through all the facts and presenting something that was palatable enough for you to swallow. You tricked yourself.

But it’s not the truth at all.

I think the experiment proves: it’s a complete failure as a tool to gain closeness with your mate.

I know a lot of people chachanges. NONE of them have ever propositioned me for swinging or even speak of the subject. So whatever percentage that you have compiled in your head as a statistic for “becoming more popular”, does not fit into my experience of life period.

When you refer to “a lot of other people here” as the body of swingers seeking MB help, you are talking about an extremely small percentage of people that would even try this. But you seem to believe that slice of society is much larger than it really is.

Sort of like the WS thinks that “everybody is doing it” and that “it’s ok”.

Ironically, the only people that I have ever heard mention swinging or having multiple partners is the actively wayward spouse. Go figure.

As for not wasting time in plan A, if I had not have plan A’d I’m convinced that right now I would be done with plan D.

Regards,

"Marriage" according to the Harley's, is an intimate union between two married people, period.

To say POJA was used to negoiate swinging sighting Harley's principles is not only a false statement, but a complete misuse of the term and principle.

The Harley's principles are a collection of methods (incl. POJA) to manage a successful marriage (please see Harley's definition of Marriage above).

Amen, Jo. POJA was intended to faciliate a happy, healthy, respectful marriage, not to DESTROY IT with adultery. Adultery is detructive, whether it is agreed to or not.

Narcotics... just to make sure we have a clear understanding of what they are and what they aren't.

Link to DEA website.

DEA link to Narcotics

Sorry for the threadjack here... but narcotics are NOT xanax, marijuanna... or cocaine.

DEA website for Benzodiazepines
Xanax is a tranquilizer.... technically called a depressent. It belongs to the family of drugs known as benzodiazepines. Other drugs in that family include valium, klonopin, ativan, etc. They were introduced as a safer replacement for barbituates which had a high risk for potential overdose leading to death.

Cocaine, meth, and crack are all considered stimulants.

DEA website for stimulants

Marijuanna falls under the category of cannabis.

DEA website for cannabis


The following is a link to the DEA's website that lists the most common drugs of abuse.

DEA link to drugs of abuse


And just in case anyone wants to see the absolute destruction that meth causes... here are some before and after photos of people whose lives were destroyed by the use of meth... the fastest growing drug epidemic in our country. The last link of Roseanne Holland used to be on the DEA website but are no longer available there. She is now dead. The first photo shows her at age 29 and the last photo shows her at age 39.

Faces of meth

10 year age progression of a meth addict

I don't find this kind of discussion humerous at all. My birth mother died as a result of long term meth use. One of the last photos I received of her is of her at about the age of 45. She looked like she was 65.

I guess I am wondering what the point was of asking someone if they are on narcotics was? I really find this beneath anyone here to stoop to this.

We have a national... drug epidemic in our country.

Anyone who has ever battled an addiction to drugs either recreational or prescription or alcohol and achieved recovery knows how serious this is. Anyone who is married to or the parent of someone who is currently or battling or in recovery for any substance abuse knows how serious this is.