Sure I did...in the beginning. Mrs. W was still in contact and unreceptive. I switched my strategy to the "Do's and Don'ts of Plan A" you have likely seen posted by me on other threads (On Just Found Out - "For Newly Betrayed Spouses")

It's all right to say ILY, just not repeatedly.

It's all right to leave little notes, by not excessively.


Admiration is, in my opinion, impossible for you to meet while she is still in contact. It just seemingly falls on deaf ears. You are like their mother and father complimenting them...just not believable. They don't WANT to believe it either...because they KNOW they certainly aren't behaving admirably.

I tried to meet admiration in conversation. Complimenting the ease with which we communicated and laughed toghether. The way she could read me and take all my conversational cues and have interesting things to add. Maybe how "if we broke up I'd never be able to find someone to laugh at my stupid humor"...that she "got me".

"Admire" her uniqueness to you.

I love you's really don't get you anywhere right now. I think they are typically counter-productive. A WW is not lovable as a WW. To "love them" incessantly makes you needy and foolish seeming to the them.

Mr W

***STORY TIME***

Okay, this makes me laugh a little, because of one note in particular that Mr. W left...I went to Atlanta for 2 weeks to visit OM-ARGH-Anyway, before I left Mr. W left a note on the passenger sunvisor mirror that said "You're An [censored]" hoping that OM would find it...Actually that wouldn't have been all that great of an idea, BUT my mom actually was the one who found it before she knew about the affair...She questioned me about it...A LOT...Wayward me was squirming and tripping all over myself to come up with an answer for that one...And it WAS F-U-N-N-Y...Mr. W is hilarious even in turmoil...

I wholeheartedly agree with what he posted to you swade...He's the MAN when it comes to stuff like that...One thing that he did do was send me INCREDIBLE roses while I was in Atlanta...They were AMAZING, I've never had more beautiful ones-breathtaking they were...Everyday I would sit them on the coffee table of my hotel room and every night OM would put them in the corner...HE HATED THOSE ROSES, but I must confess I LOVED them...You just never know what will hit it's mark...

Mrs. W

"Okay so I'm going to meet your EN whether you like it or not and by God you're going to enjoy it!"

Stay calm. Let the A die. Get that PI immediately. Expose the [censored]. Just avoid LB's and DJ's. Be quiet but strong. Show her who's the man.

She is in love with OM. She will believe anything he says. He'll find a way to explain this marriage all away. Don't give him the TIME to do it.

swade,

I have an idea. Instead of trying to work so hard on her most important EN's, why not target the ones that aren't so important? She might not be conflicted by that and it would score you points. I've never been a WW but sometimes I imagine that it is painful for them to hear ILY from BH while they are actively betraying them. Just a theory. And she doesn't want to love you at this moment so ILY puts pressure on her. You cannot ever compete toe-to-toe with an OM. You will always lose. It's because they aren't real.

Frankly, at times I feel like I do not want to care in order to 'protect my own feelings.'

IN fact we agreed that SF will be temporarily put on hold since it is not fulfilling at this particular time (don't want to force it).

Mr and Mrs W - thanks! The note story is funny!

Pio -- you are right, I want to expose OM to his W.

Careful. You may get to the point where WW wants the M and YOU don't.

You DON'T wanna go there. Believe me.

So kill the A quickly. Time is not on YOUR side.

I think putting SF on hold is not a bad thing. You'll live.

Pio - you say kill the A quickly (I assume via exposure).

Think its a good idea to have an IC session with S Harley quickly (possible appt tomorrow) to ensure my game plan is locked on instead of waiting for one WITH WW in 2 weeks (WW cannot attend sooner).

The thought ringing in my head is kill the A quickly!

I have exposed on WW side -- Again, having difficulty on OM's side of family.

I must say that while we are not openly arguing or launching LBs, it just seems like my WW is tough to communicate with right now -- real quiet, I don't know what she is thinking many timee. Beides she seems to launch herself into the TV alot. Hard to talk when this is happening.

Maybe I should just keep conversation as light as possible?

We did watch a movie last night, but I later left the room as I felt an uneasy mood sweep over me as I saw her cell phone sitting not far from her reach!

At one point I don't think I said a single word to WW for almost two weeks. I tried conversation because MC said to. WW told me there was not a single thing she could think of that she wanted to talk to me about. Well I may have been born at night but I wasn't born LAST night. I just stopped talking. Period.

Please call Steve Harley ASAP. Get a real plan.

And yes I do mean exposure. Once I got hold of OM's friends and family, he stopped trying to call. Too bad he didn't erase his cellphone's memory before he gave it to WW so they could stay in contact. Oh well. You can't think of everything.

Right now I'm betting WW sees you as clingy and needful. That makes you appear weak in her eyes. You are trying to meet EN's but WW doesn't want those EN's met so you are doing more harm than good. I think I saw one of the W's post that to you. Sounds right. Why not try being just a little distant. Still do nice things. Give her backrubs. Little kisses on the back of the neck. But also try to be just a little bit aloof. I used to do exactly what you have been doing. Once I pushed myself away from WW just a little, she started pulling herself toward me.

It all comes down to patience which you continue to prove you don't have. That's tough!

[/quote]Please call Steve Harley ASAP. Get a real plan.[/quote]
On top of this!

[/quote]Right now I'm betting WW sees you as clingy and needful. That makes you appear weak in her eyes. You are trying to meet EN's but WW doesn't want those EN's met so you are doing more harm than good. [/quote]
You are most likely right on this!

[/quote] Once I pushed myself away from WW just a little, she started pulling herself toward me.[/quote]
Would you suggest I spend more time with the kids?

[/quote]It all comes down to patience which you continue to prove you don't have. That's tough! [/quote]
Right again - you win the grand prize!!!

Absolutely spend more time with the kids...without WW around all the time. Sometimes with her - sometimes without.

You and the kids have fun together. If WW feels left out, what do you think she will do?

If you all have fun together, that will help her identify with the M.

For some reason, you bring to mind Spike and Chester. Right now you are Chester at the very beginning as Spike is walking down the street.

But let's not forget how that cartoon ends, Chester.

Pretty funny!

Last night as we were watching the movie, our pomeranian was lying on the couch moving away from WW.

The Pom was licking the back of my neck and my shoulders while I was viewing the movie. It was funny but uncomfortable.

My WW said --"that makes no sense"

I now had a flashback as me being the dog licking my WW! Not funny but still uncomfortable!

Okay that's just way TMI. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

swade...Have you hired a PI yet? DO IT NOW, come back and confirm...That is the one place where you seem to have patience and yet it is the WORST place you could have it...Will you do this TODAY???

Btw, Mr. W did NOT let me off the hook with talking or having SF...He was a CONSTANT presence in my life, again that drove me NUTS, but it sure put a monkey wrench in affair having time-Mr. W was bearing down in the marriage and home so much...That combined with my 2 week excursion to Atlanta made my mom aware that all was not well, and she nagged me so much that I finally exposed myself to her and then told OM about it-He was NOT happy about this-burst a bit of the fantasy bubble...I became a helluva lot of trouble for him-he began pulling away and guess what I became? CLINGY AND NEEDY towards him-LOVEBUSTER CITY...During this time I also walked in on Mr. W on his knees in prayer beside our bed...Sick and twisted WS that I was I thought I could use this as fodder for bonding and comedy with OM...When I told him, he got very quiet and said, "Mrs. W, Mr. W must love you very much" and hung up quickly-I was stunned...Then came the death knell in the affair coffin, my mom's and Mr. W's collaberation and then my mom's phone call to OM...GAME OVER...The affair was HISTORY...

GET CRACKIN' ON EXPOSURE SWADE...Make Waves Dude!!! Then be there to catch her as she falls...

Mrs. W

Mrs W,

To be clear, I exposed on my WW's side.

I need to find the scoop on OM.

I spoke to a PI in Baltimore MD yesterday to see of he could help me obtain home info for OM (I have OM cell phone number only).

He said it was illegal to obtain this info - I could not believe this. He only provided surveillance. I wanted to get a PI in the area where I believe OM's family live.

I said reverse cell lookups are available online.

Anyway, I have an IC w/Steve Harley in the morning.

I will look at some other PI options right now!

I DO want to expose OM to his family.

Mrs W -- when you say constant presence -- what kinda things did he do? I felt I would appear needy and clingy if I was in WW's face (forcing intimacy?).

I will have at least a week right now to be a constant presence in WW's face as the whole family will be home the next 7 days.

I am about to call some PIs now! I need Steve's plan and I need a good OMW contact and I will be armed!

Just called an infidelity PI in Wash DC Balt area and they would not assist me when I told them I needed the info to expose to OMW.

They did not like this answer!

I will try my own reverse cell lookup on the web for a fee.

Welp, now you know what info to omit for the next PI. Doh!

Well swade, really he was just THERE...Which meant no more hours on the phone with OM...No constant back and forth emails and texts...Of course this meant that I did stupid things like take my phone to the bathroom with me, or I left and went to one of our stores, which is where Mr. W's office is...Okay, when I was in the bathroom doing the texting, I knew that Mr. W knew the score because he'd say things like "tell him I said hi"...that put a damper on things swade, eroded the fantasy and made everything a lot of trouble...Also, unbeknownst to me, Mr. W had a keylogger on his office computer, that is how he got my email passwords and knew about all email correspondence and was able to drive me nuts knowing little tidbits that I could not figure out for the life of me how he knew...He also had a voice activated digital recorder in his office as well as one in my car...Additionally he eventually bluffed me into thinking that Verizon sent him ALL of my text messages...ANOTHER place that he gained intel, because since he had actually looked at a few of my texts on the phone and bluffed with them, I gave up TONS of stuff that I thought he already knew...From that point any texts sent by OM or myself had to be "coded", MORE PRESSURE, MORE REALITY...FANTASY KAPUT...I told you, Mr. W was the MASTER at this stuff...

All this time he also asked me open ended questions about the affair...not judgemental ones, really just about my "feelings"...And I sang like a canary most of the time...and he did a lot of listening and nodding...telling me that he wanted the chance to show me that he could be all of those things to me...Not that I believed him at the time swade, but his ACTIONS were showing me...He was there...OM was not...And Mr. W did things with our DD...Made plans with her, invited me, but when I declined he and she would go anyway...living their REAL lives while I wallowed in a fantasy...A pretty miserable existence I can assure you...

Also all that snooping was actually beneficial to our recovery because Mr. W saw how ridiculous and false the "relationship" was...He read or heard all the out and out lies that I was feeding OM just so that I could get my fledgling ego stroked...It's pretty obvious to see the fraud that exists when you understand what affairs are all about...If it weren't so sad and life altering some of it would be comical...

On another note, Mr. W and I were just discussing your situation while in the pool...Yeah we're bums...lol...Anyway, we see this exposure situation as very ideal for you because your WW doesn't even know that you know that the OM is married, right? If so, keep it that way...don't mention it before you expose...When you do expose, she of course will be PO'ed, but you can act pretty innocent about it all...Saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think it would matter to you guys...I just felt since I knew that she should know too...Maybe I shouldn't have done that...My bad"...Of course you KNOW you should have done that, but it removes any malice aforethought from your side of things...Babble at her and play the innocent card...We believe that will work in your favor...*careful not to sound sarcastic when innocently babbling at her*

And I agree with Resilient, now you know what not to tell the PI-Heck, you could even tell them that she's an old friend of yours from high school that you're trying to find...I'm sure they would go for that...Just keep at it...

Mrs. W

swade,

I have no idea what is legal and illegal in the USA. I do know that I went through 7 or 8 PI's who, for whatever reason, could not help me. Then I found one who had no morals whatsoever. I hired him. He too did run up against some legal barriers but he was VERY creative. Persistence pays off.

So think of hiring a PI with the same criteria as you would hire a divorce lawyer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BTW, Resilient is correct. You can approach a PI the right way or the wrong way. For example, you could say:

1) I want help to expose to OMW.

2) I think my wife might be having an affair but I'm not sure. She keeps calling this phone number and I would like to find out who it is. Is there anything you can do to help me?

Now you may think that is the same thing but the PI will see it differently. #2 is 90% of what he does for a living. #1, in his mind, might get him his 15 minutes of fame on CNN (as the police are sorting out the carnage).

I found that carefully crafting your request will get you very different responses. Make your story entirely plausable and try to sound a little sad and afraid.

Also, don't tell everything you know. Keep your disclosure to the PI as simple as possible. There is no need to say "I think he is a teacher that recently moved to the WC but I believe he has a wife and kids back east". TMI. Keep it simple. If the PI thinks you have already done some investigation, he will be suspicious of your motive. PI's are trained not to trust people. You need your PI to trust you.

Hey! I've got an idea! Do you think you could pull off a convincing snivel? Practice it. It just might work!

WW has received 725 text messages and counting since 1 June.

I had my IC with S Harley today - enlightening and refreshing.

WW has agreed to speak with him in 2 weeks followed by myself again.

I did tell WW last night that I will not enable or encourage the A.

WW has nerve to tell me "You have nothing to worry about"

Sure -- only my M.

I am getting ready for my 2nd round of exposure -- I need to hit OMW - that would be the main target for me now.

What's tough is WW B-day is approaching in July.

I need to prepare myself for this and "be nice" without resisting the urge to be selfish.

After all, I am still in Plan A.