2long,

polygamy = having more than one spouse (gamy = marriage)

polymory = openly having more than one sexual partner -- with the consent of one's spouse or primary partner (swinging)

Not advocating either one -- just saying that they're different.

But I suppose if your point is that both are inconsistent with MB principles, then I'd have to agree.

Anyone who has been involved in a swinger marriage (especially a woman whose husband wanted her to have sf with others for his pleasure), needs help that cannot be gotten here.

They have been damaged at their very core by virtue of the acts they have taken part in.

I believe this damage to be so great that they need more than can be given here.

And I am not putting these women down familycomesfirst, although I am angry at choices people make that will harm their own integrity, self-respect and mock the very marriage they have chosen to be in. And open marriage in my belief systems mocks love because it damages, and love in it's pure form can not damage, it can only heal.

Adults, by the time they get to be adults and are procreating ought to know better.

Fair enough, however:

Having more than one spouse isn't traditional marriage, and arguably not marriage at all. So the term polygamy doesn't necessarily describe the "lifestyle" very well, even.

Similarly, having an A while married certainly isn't a "loving" thing 2 do (2 either the BS or the OP, or anybody in eithers' families), so "polyamory" doesn't fit very well from any angle, does it?

I'm with Star on this - "infidelity" or adultery describes these lifestyle choices much better.

Interestingly, my W defended her A with "I have no problem with polygamy". She didn't use "polyamory" 2 describe her little triangle. But she's an anthropologist, and cited cultures where polygamy is practiced, in her defense. In real-world polygamy, of course, all the partners are aware of one another, unlike infidelity. More important, however, all the partners are diminished as individuals, because their affections must be diluted.

Just say no,

-ol' 2long

I am in a traditional marriage, what do I need to defend? Are you saying I need to stand on a street corner and shout it? I would NEVER advise someone to get into a swinging relationship, I couldn't imagine going there. But, I understand that people make mistakes, and they want to amend those mistakes.

You could also go out and buy Dr. Laura's book (as a woman) and do some good things with your M. There is a lot of great advice out there.

My H and I say to each other a lot that we are in it for the long haul. Next week is our 11th anniversary. He told my sister the other day that if I wanted to D him I'd have to run him off with a shot gun. And I'M the WS. I'm proof that you can recover, a "success story" if you will. My A was 5 years ago and it was one of the stupidest things I've ever done. I know what it's like to look back with clarity and see the destruction I caused. I thank God all the time for my H and the chance to prove myself. So, maybe that's why I want to give people the benefit of the doubt and a chance to change?

I too have little tolerance for those who are not repentant.

This was not coming across.

Repentant and non are not even in the same galaxy with each other.

Oh, wait a minute...


polyamory = having more than one loving relationship

It's not supposed 2 be about sex so much as about love. An oxymoron. Which is why I think that, as a term, it's a distracting, justifying excuse for using other people for one's own selfish desires.

-ol' 2long

And for the record, I tend to view committed marriages between gay couples as traditional by virtue of their lifelong monagamous commitment to each other and was told that the dynamics would be the same as that of heterosexual marriages as far as Plan A & B go, E/Ns, care and protection, etc., but have no personal experience with in my real life.

"I am in a traditional marriage, what do I need to defend? Are you saying I need to stand on a street corner and shout it?"

Yes, actually. See if you have it in you.

It's not only an oxymoron, it's an impossiblity. You cannot love and harm at the same time.

My wife was in an open marriage for 10 years.

I just didn't know it.

I am positive even if I had known AND APPROVED we would have still ended up in the same bloody mess.


You know, there are sites that specialize in these situations. These people could easily go there and find a better fit with more experienced support going either way and all ways at once.

SYMC comes to mind. They have some kind of a deal with polyamory over there.

Where would that get me Aph? I am truly interested. In this day and age I'm guessing I'd get dirt looks, probably a few "birds" and for the most part ignored. Sure, occasionally there would be some people who thought what I was doing was good for society.

One of my H's friends wives confessed to me one time that she was in an A. We all kind of already knew, but one day bam, she just tells me about it. I did everything I could to talk her out of it. Eventually the A crumbled, it all came out in the open (her H no longer turned a blind eye to it) and they are still married. I saw first hand though how thick "fog" is in someone elses eyes. She was convinced he was IT no matter what I said. I even told her of my A and what I learned, that got her attention, but not enough to make her stop right then.

I think we all know that to get someone to be for a "traditional marriage" they have to want it with all their being. Just like someone trying to quit smoking or lose weight.

"Where would that get me Aph?"

Test.
Proof.
Walk the talk.
Belief.


"I think we all know that to get someone to be for a "traditional marriage" they have to want it with all their being. Just like someone trying to quit smoking or lose weight."

No, they just have to not harm others for their own pleasure. Wanting what is ethical and the actual doing are usually not related. the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, remember? Do what is right anyway. I sure wanted an A during FWWs VLTA, wanted something more with anyone with all my being. But I did not - because it is wrong. Always wrong.

Wanting with all their being is not required in the least.

I don't think so, really. They're more thoughtful about it than, say, loveshack.org.

But it still is a mess best avoided from the outset. That's what the Harleys do, I think.

-ol' 2long

In other words fcf, it requires people to think. To use their minds, see the big picture, not be short-sighted.

All it takes is for people to start using their brains.

What will be good for my marriage, what will be good for my family, what do I want my legacy to be, my family's legacy, what is good for society...

The will, desire to not do any harm, and the intellect to know why.

2, I am thinking of a one time MB regular who received considerable support there to accept her WH poly-amorous desires. No one was allowed to post to her that it is wrong. Only posts supporting her positive decision were allowed. She was even moved to the private forum for unchallenged support.

You were told to leave her alone, too, as I recall.

Didn't work out for her in the end either.

Appy:

She's divorced now, and still struggling with her personal recovery.

I think the moral of the story has been that it takes as long as it takes for one 2 recover. My own sitch comes 2 mind (wish it would stop doing that!). But I think the realization that polyamory really doesn't work, even in this day and age, has sunk in.

I was never really told 2 leave her alone, just haven't had much 2 say over there in a while. I check in occasionally, out of curiosity.

-ol' 2long

So the fact I am still M'd 5 yrs after my A and I am remorseful for my actions isn't walking the walk? I can't be responsible for others marriages. Only my own.

We recovered for a long period and then decided to have another child... which we did, then got a surprise. We had another one on the way. We now have three beautiful children. My H and I could not be happier now, and we are very committed to our M.

As for others... well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. I also don't offer unsolicited advice to my friends/family about their marriages. For most, that is considered overstepping boundaries. I guess that's what MC's are for?

So for an M to recover, it's not necessary for the party's involved to want it with all their being? I guess I'll buy that to an extent. There has to be some wanting there for it to work... KWIM? It may be a weak wanting at first, but it has to grow at some point for the M to sustain for years to come. Merely not wanting to hurt your spouse or others and staying in a M that makes you miserable is no way to live, IMO.

I value the one to one relationship of my Marriage. I believed in it when I said my vows 30 years ago. But I don't think I fully realized the sanctity of it back then. I was entering into a world of sanctity that I did not even know existed. Like entering into a world where there is another dimension that you cannot even see, hear, feel, or smell. As the years have gone by, I am blessed in that I am more and more aware of the special qualities of this dimension of Marriage, of a relationship between me and my spouse.

I value this site because it provides people with a complete set of values and logic flowing from those values to maintain and/or re-build that very special relationship we call "marriage".

I am a woman, married to a man. I cannot speak for those who are involved in same-sex relationships, but I do welcome them here.

Just a simple little EA of kidding on the square and secrets kept from me was enough to scare both my FWH and myself into the next step of fully understanding that sanctity, that dimension of marriage that we both commited to honoring 30 years ago.
Lake

"Merely not wanting to hurt your spouse or others and staying in a M that makes you miserable is no way to live, IMO."

Agree. You fix the M.

Believing marriage is for better or worse and until death or someone better comes along us part isn't much to strive for. Is it?

And having your FBH now meeting your ENs because he is afraid you will have another A if he doesn't is no happy marriage either. It is not loving him, even.

Marriage is commitment to one person for life, period.

familycomesfirst

I am not anti-gay relationships ... I think they can be as fabulous as a man-woman marriage ... one of the women in my book group is in a lesbian partnership that has lasted decades and they are devoted to each other .... this "Traditional Marriage" issue concerning MB is not my personal bias ... it is >ahem< pragmatic discernment of what is appropriate or inappropriate help

the Harley's have not researched what works and does not work in same-sex relationships

there are different dynamics
different social pressures
and more....

would it not be presumptious of me to go to a same-sex relationship message board and demand they help my man-woman marriage ??? ...

they have no experience with my issues and no desire to become experienced with my issues ... why would I keep pounding on that door asking for help .... when there is a more appropriate place with expertise that can actually help

the harleys have defined the scope of their interests and have designed their program within that scope

do you disagree?