On that we do agree.

FWIW I don't think Aphrodite is a troll. I think she's extremely foggy and making assumptions about her marriage and her H without actually communicating with her H. I made the same mistake. I always "assumed" things about what my H was thinking which weren't true. It was only in MC that we even addressed it.

It's the same fog we've seen a hundred times here. What FWS hasn't rewritten marital history? It doesn't make someone a troll.

Aph, if you actually READ what people are saying to you on the General board and the Recovery board then ABSORB it instead of thinking you are being attacked, you will see some very good advice for your marriage but, more importantly, for you as an individual.

I agree Jen.

I also agree with you Jen...Aph, I found what Starfish said to you regarding your wanting to focus on all of your husband's shortcomings to have a lot of merit...I understand doing that, I did it too...It's an effort by the WS to mitigate their own bad behavior...NOTHING MITIGATES INFIDELITY...Talking about your husband's issues, ESPECIALLY before even coming clean with him, does NOTHING to help you or your marriage...YOU are the one who is here right now...YOU only have the power to change YOU...Let's work on that, whaddaya say?

Btw, when in July will your husband return? The exact date I mean...Because as much as you may hate me for it, I will ride your [censored] here until you tell him...When you do that, you will BEGIN to earn my respect...Fair Enough?

Mrs. W

the visual : Mrs W riding Aphro's [censored]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

the rewards of a job-well-done

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

guess who rode Mrs W's [censored] ?????

guess
guess
guess

the beauty of this site .... Mrs W being a hard-[censored]

LOL @ Pep...One of the original "hardasses" round these parts! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Thank you everyone (except pio the hand).

KiwiJ, I understand what you are saying. It's just that I once knew someone who was raised that way and he's a good person. And he had no animosity toward his parents. I agree that open marriages are not a good idea. I just don't think people in them are necessarily bad or selfish people who don't care about their kids. That's going a bit over the top, although I can understand why it would be an emotional topic here.

Mrs. Wondering, what you say about my focusing on his shortcomings makes sense. I do fear that when I tell him he will refuse to talk about it and instead pick fights about little things. And I don't know what to do if that should happen. And I was very emotional because my anniversary is today. So I was mood-swinging like crazy, which I mentioned on my other thread about anger. I'm feeling much better today, though. So if he does do that - refuse to talk and pick on me about little stuff, what should I do?

As for when he's coming home...I actually will be going there, I believe. I think he said his last day is July 11 and then he has a week vacation. Of course a lot has to do with how long it takes me to pack. But my lease is up the last day of July. So I suppose if you don't hear a report from me by August 7, it'll be time for me to face one (or many) of those 2x4s that are so famous around here.

Since there is really no way to know how he will respond, I'd suggest that you just take it one step at a time for now...I can't remember who said it here, but I find this to be true..."Worrying is like praying for something that you don't want"...You have no control over his reaction...Accept that...

A few suggestions, BE HUMBLE...ACCEPT ALL BLAME FOR YOUR INFIDELITY...IT IS YOURS...ONLY offer a SINCERE apology-nothing cheap-if you don't feel it, be assured that he won't...Really, you just love him and let him deal with it on HIS terms...Invite him here where he can get the support that he will need...

Mrs. W

Like Starfish, I too recommend a name change...Seriously, "Aphrodite" IS an offensive moniker for a WS...It just is...

My name upon arrival was "WWWondering" as in "WaywardWifeWondering"...When Mr. W started posting we became "The_Wonderings" as we were posting under the same ID...When we realized that we couldn't be logged in at the same time we became "Mr. Wondering" and "Mrs. Wondering" as it has remained...

I believe that "Aphrodite" would be a very hurtful name for your BH to read upon his arrival here as well...Think about the shoe being on the other foot and coming here and finding out that your husband had been posting as "Adonis" or "Casanova"...Consider it, k?

Mrs. W

ETA: Realize that I'm telling you this as a friend would tell another if they had something in their teeth or toilet paper on their shoe! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I without reservations recommend that YOU call the Harley's before D-day

get advice on how to break this to him

the reason I am saying this is:

YOU seems to have grown up with a very underdeveloped model for what a healthy marriage looks like .... you want and desire something you have no blueprint for .... (I am thinking about what you wrote to the Harley's about your idea for an 11th EN)

You need an expert hand to guide you ... because what you desire you also fear - emotional intimacy

I agree wholeheartedly with Pep...And Steve Harley just ROCKS...I've met him and talked to him about my own waywardness...You'll get no judgement, just very clear guidance with care...Will you do this Aphrodite?

Mrs. W

Mrs.Wondering, not worry, really? I thought maybe because I have so much time to prepare, I should anticipate every possible reaction and then create a plan for each one. Is that a bad idea?

And absolutely I won't offer any excuses and if he yells, let him yell. Unless it gets too ugly, then I'll have to take a drive or something till he cools down. Anything I need to work out with him will be an entirely separate conversation.

About the name -- hadn't thought of that. I'll do some research and see if I can come up with something else that starts with Aph.

I don't think I'd want my husband reading my old posts or feeling like there were things he could not post because I might see them. And no offense to LoBoy and HHW but I wouldn't want to fight online either. I should and I will tell him about the site because I'm sure it will help him but I'm thinking maybe we should not know each other's screen names until we are both comfortable with that.

Pepperband, okay that's a good idea. A lot will depend on expenses, though. Things are super-tight, but we have a painting we might sell. I'm waiting to hear from someone who can tell me what it's worth. I'd say I've got my fingers crossed but I'm not superstitious <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Could you expand on what you were saying about my idea for an 11th need?

Is it emotional intimacy I fear? I don't know about that. Someone said that on here once because I said there are some things my husband said I wish I didn't know about. I said that because of the whole business with the ex-wife, which we don't have to get into if it's not relevant. When I wrote about the 11th need, though, it was fear of abandonment I had in mind.

Mrs.Wondering,

I'll try to fit it in the budget somehow. Any specifics I should ask the Harleys other than explaining the general situation? If it turns out I can only afford one phone call, I want to make sure I ask all the most important questions.

Aphrodite/Aphaerisis - Once again you show clearly that you don't "get it." You want to play in "grey" areas where they don't exist. Black and White, Marriage is about FIDELITY under ALL circumstances. "Forsaking ALL others and keeping myself ONLY unto you."

Your "defense" of open marriages and the people in them, and what their actions are teaching their children, is just another example of "Moral Relativism" and excusing people from personal responsibility. "It's okay for them because they are 'good people' in so many other areas."

Wonderful. So was John Wayne Gacy. A 'nice guy' in many areas, but...oh ya...he found it perfectly okay to kill a bunch of people. But "on balance" he was a "good, nice guy" and his morals are just fine for his children...right?

FIDELITY. That is what marriage REQIURES, not some "lifestyle" that wants to call itself a marriage in order to try to "appropriate" some acceptability by using a term that does NOT apply to their beliefs or actions, but that will maybe "fool" others into thinking they believe in marriage.

There is only one reason for an "open marriage" and that is to enable someone to have sex with someone other than their spouse. It's all about ME and what I want! Not selfish?!?

Okay, how about totally self-centered and focused on doing whatever they want to do that brings theirself pleasure? In short "moral relativism." Redefining "adultery" to "disappear" because they are enlightened and have an "open marriage." "Thou shalt NOT..." is NOT in their vocabulary. The rewrite according to their own desires so that for them it reads, "Thou SHALT do whatever you want to do." ANYTHING they choose to do is right, no matter what anyone else says or thinks.




Yep, "that time of the month," "my anniversary," anything that triggers an emotional response is what is "at fault."

Do you control your emotions or do your emotions control you? Again, it's "all relative," isn't it?




You still don't get it. ALL of his "shortcomings" don't matter right now. The only thing that matters right now is what YOU are "bringing to the table."

When a person presents to the Emergency Room from major trauma, the ER personnel DO NOT "waste time" on the "minor problems." They can wait until later. The first thing they try to do is to stablize the person and keep them alive. If the person dies, the "minor problems" won't be a concern any longer.

Aph. Your marriage is alread DEAD. Your only chance is to resuscitate and treat the major trauma first. The rest can wait until way down the road.

You have taken a .357 magnum and shot your marriage, point blank range, MULTIPLE times in the head, heart, and groin. We're not even talking ONE "one night stand" here.

And you STILL don't know if you WANT your marriage.

HOW do you expect to have any chance of resuscitating your marriage without giving all you have? But you are still too focused on "protecting yourself."

It won't work. You married THIS man. You knew he was divorced and you knew the bad problems he endured with his first wife. Now you are crashing his second marriage, and all you are "worried about" is he might get angry, he might not want to talk about the "little things" that were your "reason" to commit adultery?

You already chose to end the marriage the first time you engaged in adultery, and confirmed that decision every subsequent adultery you chose to commit.

And you are "staying for the kids?" How noble. How thoughtful. But the choice is no longer yours. That choice to "stay or go" is now up to your husband, and if you want him to come down on the side of "stay," you have about a month to "get your head on straight" about the seriousness and the magnitude of what ADULTERY means to a marriage and to the BETRAYED spouse, no matter what you percieve to be their "faults or shortcomings, real or imagined.

ForeverHers,

None of that justifies saying things that are not true. You don't campaign against something that is wrong by making stuff up. It is not true that they are all selfish and don't care about their children. In their minds, divorce is far worse for children than open marriages. They might be right. New research shows that as long as there is no open hostility, children are better off when their parents have bad marriages than when they are divorced. The level of emotional intimacy that a good monogamous marriage requires is something MOST couples have never reached so far, and some people have a hard time believing it is even possible. We're not disagreeing over open marriages, just the character of people in them. So let's just agree to disagree because it doesn't even apply to my marriage anyway.


That's a cheap shot. First of all, I don't believe in moral relativity. Secondly, I have read articles and posts on this site that refer to withdrawal and mood changes that go along with it. I'm trying to understand this process so I was posting my feelings at the moment partly to get some feedback as to why I might be feeling what I'm feeling. But since nobody cares about that, I won't post any updates about what I'm feeling anymore.


Not right now, no. But they may affect how he takes the news. And no, I'm not worried about controlling the situation, I'm worried about HIM.


No, I already expect him to be angry. I'd have to be an idiot not to expect that. And I never said that stuff was my reason for cheating. It wasn't. I really wish people would stop putting words in my mouth.


I'm well aware of the seriousness and magnitude now that I've been here a while. I know it may take 2 years or more for him to recover. And I think I may be more aware of the seriousness of it than anyone here since I'm the only one concerned about the possibility of suicide (his). Why do you think I want to tell him in person and not over the phone or in an email?

Aph - I am a FWW that confessed about my A to my H. I thougth for sure he would want a D also, I never thought he'd stay. He was very angry at first, but we stayed together. The only time he has ever said "I want a divorce" to me was about 6 months into recovery. I think he was going thru the anger stage that is described here so often. He wanted me to worry and feal pain, it made him feel better to see me upset. I understand how it would get old hearing that a lot though. It's not a good idea to make continued threats that you have no intentions of going thru with.

As far as the way you are being spoke to here, I totally sympathize with you. It can be hard to find a place, as a WS, to bare your soul and not get beat up. I didn't know about these boards until about 6 months into our recovery. I wanted to see what there was out there for me to help my H in his recovery. The first board I went to treated me very similary. Said I was making justifications, that I wasn't truly remorseful, yada yada yada. To a certain extent, they were correct. However, with me being so new to all of it, I felt brow beaten. I was very upset. Here I was, looking for help, and I ended up feeing worse about myself.

The truth is, you do need BS's to help you see the "big picture" if you KWIM. Try to filter out the ones that just want to bash you with rude comments. That is where I failed, only the bashing stood out to me, not the compassionate souls. There are a few here that are truly trying to be helpful. (I don't understand whey these days a certain few seem to think every new poster is a troll or swinger... it's getting reallllly old.)

As far as open marriage goes... I know you don't mean that. I know I had weird crazy thought when I was foggy, I even thought I didn't care if he had an A too. That is SO not the case. Let's just say I'd like to plead temporary insanity for that period of time, I was not thinking clearly at all.

There is no easy way to tell your H about what you've done. It will ultimately be his choice to stay or go. Who knows, he could surprise you.

peeps who have a deep fear of abandonment

often

do things that push the relationship close to the edge

then, when they DO get "abandoned"

they can say;

"SEE !!! I just knew he was going to abandon me."

How many peeps do you know, who claim to like/love/enjoy being abandoned?

NO ONE likes that

just about everyone has experienced some level of abandonment

the ones you ought to look at are NOT the ones who have abandoned their loved ones .... but the ones (multitudes) who have been abandoned ... and survived honorably

for a woman who has a fear of abandonment, you sure position yourself in a way that makes it more likely to happen

WHY?

because abandonment = victimhood = it was not my fault

have you (yet) acknowledged that you have emotionally abandoned your marriage ....

GETTING emotionally naked with ONE man - who has the power to hurt you <~~~ This is your real fear

not abandonment

Show me the research. Give me a link to the website that hosts the research, the name of the book, etc... I want to see it in black and white.

We see statements like this all the time...but we never see the reference material that the person makes the statement from based their commments from. I say, show me da money.

As you may or may not have gathered, I OFTEN post to wayward spouses when they come here. I've been burnt many times in the past, being accused of "siding with them". But that's not the case, its really more that I can understand that often their hurting with their choices too. So given that, I wanted to point something out to you.

ALL of these WS's have one tactic in common. They ALL...and I do mean ALL, have always looked for reasons not to tell their BS's 'right now'. Not this week, it's our anniversary. Not next week, it's little Johnny's birthday. Here's the thing. It's NEVER a good time. There is no GOOD way to do this. And honestly, all of this really is just a way to postpone the confrontation and pain that they're going to have to face.

You KNOW that you're going to have to admit to what you've done. There is no way you can avoid the fact that ITS ALL YOUR FAULT. That the pain you're causing your H is all your fault...and even now, I'd bet that anytime you think about your affairs and then turn to your husband, your first reaction mentally is to think "but I wouldn't have done that if he'd done XXX, or if he hadn't done ZZZ". I'm not attacking you here...its a mental self defense mechanism that almost all WS's (NOT FWS's however) have in common. Its your mind trying to deflect the pain of accepting that its your fault...I saw it in my own wife when SHE was wayward.

The first thing you need to work on before you admit to this is getting rid of that reflex. Cut yourself off from that line of thought when it happens...admit to yourself that these affairs were your CHOICE...and nothing makes those choices 'right'. Don't justify those choices, even to yourself anymore.

If you truly want to 'get things right'...start with that. And start putting together a plan to help your H recover, to help your M recover. Start going to an MC now...why wait until your H is home? And make sure that its one who follows the MB methods...and...admit to them the TRUTH of all of this. Leave nothing out.

And start thinking about how you can help your husband through this...time to put your own needs on the back burner. You're going to have to nurse your H through the damage you've created by having these affairs. Start getting yourself mentally ready for that task.

TAKE OWNERSHIP...of your affairs, of your actions...and for YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to recover your husband and your marriage from them.

good post Owl

"In their minds" is the key point. That's called Rationalization. What you tried to say in the next quotation is Justification. Rationalize and Justify all one wants, it STILL is wrong no matter what they want "for themselves.

The POINT is that they ARE selfish, wanting what they want (more than the exclusivity that is inherent in Marriage) and then seeking ways to rationalize and justify "getting what THEY want.





Ridiculous. Teaching children that "fidelity in marriage" means NOTHING is NOT good for the children or for anyone the children may come in contact with when THEY carry that mindset into adulthood.

I'd really like to see the data you cite, if it exists, and evaluate just what this supposed "research" was designed to show or test.





That may be your opinion, but I don't happen to agree with it. It sounds like another "justification" for your choices. There are TONS of couples who have a very intimate marriage, especially when they perform the roles of husband and wife that God has given to each. An understanding of Emotional Needs, as anyone on MB who has been through the trials of recovery from adultery can attest, will also result in a much higher level of emotional intimacy for the couple because they not only understand what EN's are, but they make a conscious decision to try to meet the spouse's needs.





I don't accept this premise of "agree to disagree" on this issue. "Open Marriages" are NOT good and they are NOT Marriages based upon love, fidelity, and servanthood of each other. That you disagree is yet another interesting look into the mind of someone who is "vulnerable" to affairs, to putting their "needs" ahead of vows and spouse.





Yes you do. That's the point that many have been trying to get across to you. That you "defend" open marriages as being okay, and trying to say that the children are not harmed as a result, shows clearly that you DO believe in Moral Relativism. "It might not be okay for me, but it's okay for them if they choose that sort of behavior."

Care for another example? MANY Wayward Spouses try to morally justify their affair by saying something along the lines of "well God must have meant for me to have an affair or He wouldn't have brought my wonderful OP into my life!"

Barf.





Withdrawal is real and it is something that Wayward Spouses go through. Withdrawal is not something that Betrayed Spouses go through, they go through anger and devastation and emotional rape. Read up some more on Withdrawal.






That's fine, don't post your feelings. You don't really want to hear about it anyway. What you want is sympathy, not empathy or understanding of the underlying causes of your feelings.






Of course they will affect how he reacts to the news. But we'll see how worried you are about him. I'm still going on your previous statement that you "staying" only because of your daughter.





No one has said that your husband's anger was THE reason you cheated. No one is putting words in your mouth. You felt entitled to be "someone's special person," to feel good about yourself, and sought it out outside of your marriage.






If you seriously think that he might attempt suicide, then you MUST NOT reveal the affairs to him on your own. You MUST do so with the aid of a competent counselor.

Has there been any indication of such a depressive state in him before? Has he attempted suicide before?

Or is this just another delaying tactic?