It was calculated incorrectly because they assumed that I was making more than I am. This was based on a guess-timate given by my W to her A. The difference is only $48/mo. It is our fear that if I try to split hairs right now, she will try and come after me using the daycare issue as a ploy.

Something that I have been discussing in my main thread is that my W wants to buy a townhouse or condo right now - she doesn't want to wait until after the D. Yesterday she complained to me about how everything she is looking at is too expensive for her. I am afraid that she will try and use CS as a method to get her into a home that she could otherwise not afford. This is a back door attempt at alimony IMO which isn't a responsibility in my state.

There's more to my situation than just what I outlined in this thread. Today the paperwork for the temp orders should be getting filed. Our temp orders hearing is scheduled for tomorrow and my W and I both wanted to get the agreement in place to avoid that. Neither of us wants to pay our attorneys their hourly rate to go to court. However, I am afraid that my W will panic and decide to queer it up at the last minute in order to get more money from me so that she can buy a new place.

I'm on pins and needles today.

newly,

Just to clarify...I completely agree with you. My point to Seabird, was to avoid such open ended language in the decree. That would be financial suicide.

The irish dancing was an 'activity' and nothing more than that. I continue to this day to support my DD financially in her 'activities' which change often. She is not lacking in experiences or extra financial support.

I also stepped up when my CS was inaccurately calculated. I received a promotion that would take effect just days before the final decree was to be handed down. I brought it to the attention of my attorney and the decree was revised.

I don't believe Seabird is determined to cause his W financial hardship and I don't believe that he will deny additional financial assistance when he deems it to be appropriate or simply, in the best interest of his kids. In fact, I think he will do as I do...he will freely offer it.

We are not all dead beat dads.

Thanks for clarifying BA.

It's virtually impossible to ironclad a decree, but it does take alot of attention to address all the issues.

My X wouldn't think himself a deadbeat dad because he pays his CS (and nothing more). I wish my DD's got the emotional support the need from him and his support through school, programs, activities and such. It is so important for each parent to be involved in parenting the children.

Seabird:
A Question: How do you define vacation in your decree?
Is it a week (7 days total) or can it be added to your weekend? Yes, this came up after ours, as did holidays.

Vacation hasn't been determined yet specifically. Remember that these are just the temp orders - we're not talking about the final decree yet.

However, this is addressed a bit in the modified SPO as defined by the state. My W gets to bump two of my weekends per year; once during the regular part of the year, and once during my 30 days in the summer (except for Father's Day weekend). She also has to give me prior notice. Otherwise I am willing to negotiate and trade time with her as necessary. If she wants to travel with the kids using air miles and there is a blackout date over a certain time frame that she doesn't have a right to, then I can agree to that assuming she gives me back the time at a predefined date.

Update?

We passed on the hearing, paperwork got filed I guess with pretty much everything we agreed on. There was one last disappointment for me at the very end. I wanted a clause that would have kept my W within the county or one neighboring county. Geographically, it's a HUGE area, but she feared it would limit her. Her lawyers put it in as our county and all contiguous. Problem is that could theoretically allow her to still move over 100 miles away and not be in violation. I called her about it and she got frustrated and flustered and actually agreed to what I wanted. She claimed to have not even looked at a map. Unfortunately, either she was BSing me or her lawyer talked her back out of it because my attorney called me back at the end of the day telling me that the contiguous wording was put back in.

*sigh*
Clear as mud?

She kept trying to assure me that she has no intentions of moving too far away. But then why did she insist on the contiguous county clause?

I have no choice but to trust her, though I fear in her desperation to own property and not rent, she will go ahead and move out to the boonies. Unless she gives me primary custody of the kids, that will screw up our DD's admission into a really good special school she got accepted into.

Nothing is ever clear. I didn't realize you are still working out who is listed as primary. I'm sorry about that clause. I know it would make a big difference where I live. I still live in the same county and X complains.

I have pondered writing on this and other sites but I can no longer delay what I know to be true and what should indeed be shared.

I must first start by saying that I am completely shocked that although each of you has been in a good/bad relationship (either with a spouse, family member, or friend) that you so freely judge based solely on one person's side of the story/relationship and assume that the other person is plain and simply put "nuts".

Being in the healthcare profession, I believe that it's a calling. It requires someone with a big heart that is dedicated, committed, nurturing, and loving. That's why I chose this career path. I also believe that it has helped me to become the person and definitely the mother that I am today. There are things that I am good at but few that I excel in. Being a great mother has NEVER been an area that I have questioned. I knew from a young age that I wanted children and I am blessed to have 2 young healthy ones. I love them uncoditionally and I always will.

Anyone that knows me (family, in-laws included, friends, teachers and co-workers) know me as a fun-loving, outgoing spirit and as quoted by my son's teacher, "Super Mom". I take pride in these attributes. I am a selfless person but with my own faults and ones that I do recognize.

I have not been honest with myself nor my spouse for several years. This was merely out of not wanting to hurt anyone, my spouse, my children, our families, but in the end, my lack of honesty is what has contributed to the end of this marriage. I was becoming a person that I hated. I was still out-going, happy at work but when I arrived home, I was sullen, depressed and disengaged. Luckily, I turned to the gym, instead of a gallon of ice-cream, to release stress. I had lost a sense of "me". I didn't know who I was, what I wanted, nor what made me happy anymore. I did know what didn't make me happy and that was my husband. I cringed at the thought of intimacy, I found it hard to share any commonalities (except for the children), and I continuously made excuses for him/us.

Now because I want to be happy and want our children to be happy, he is realizing all of the things that he should have contributed to our relationship and more importantly, to the relationship that he now demands to have with our 2 children. Why is this coming as I am walking out the door? Do you blame me for not wanting to take it/him seriously? We've been down this path before but leading up to all of this, I did do it all: fed the kids, made their lunches, toted them off to school and back home, the majority of the baths, the laundry, Birthday parties, clothes shopping, school functions, etc. While all the time working full-time in a good paying and respected career. I am very independent and I have from day one, assumed 1/2 of ALL of the living expenses: mortgage, utilities, food, daycare, entertainment, and solely my car, my car insurance, etc.

Does it seem selfish now for me to once in my life want to be happy? I have given 38 years to putting others first and well now it's my turn. I deserve it too. I have already seen how these last few months have had a positive influence on our children. Their Dad is actually engaged in outings, making their meals, bath and story time, etc. That's a great thing but why did it take now for him to step up to the plate?

Can my leaving not merely be because our marriage has ended? Why does it have to be that I am engaging in an affair? Why do "friends" have to drive by my house to see if an unfamiliar car is parked outside? PLEASE! My morals and values far surpass these acts.

I am focusing on me and my children. I want to reflect on what I did and didn't do in this relationship. I am not jumping into bed with the next guy that I meet. I don't even want to meet another man for quite some time. I am more cautious than ever and I will not set myself up to fail a second time. I am particularly cautious because it's not about me, it's about us, a woman with two young children to protect.

I'm not here to defend myself, I know that I am a good person, but quite honestly, it's hard to read these ongoing threads that my spouse has entered and to read your replies of sympathy. Don't you think that if he were this great and that he was this engaged with his family, that we wouldn't be on this thread in the first place?!?!? Just ponder that for a moment, please.

Why would a mother move a child out of a county, from a prestigious and well-respected school after she worked so hard to get her into it? Remember, I was the one that got online to investigate all of the schools and their rankings and entrance requirements, the testing dates, purchased abstract reasoning and practical problem solving books to prepare her for the entrance tests, and I took her for the testing. Why would I ever uproot the children to a place that would prevent them from seeing their father? This is about us. I don't want them to miss out on having a Dad and that is not my intent today or ever! You and I both have an opportunity to be better parents than we ever had and to come out of this divorce as civil and honorable individuals. I am commited to this.

Everyone, please allow me to introduce you to my W.

This particular thread was created for me to explore custody options. There is a main thread where I have discussed the actual dynamics of our failing marriage. I don't think anyone here was purposely trying to vilify or offend; they were just offering ideas and opinions based on their own experiences and because I was, and still am, in a state of bewildered shock. If you look in the other thread, those same people have asked me time and again to see if you would be willing to drop in and tell your side and speak with them. These are all folks who have been there and done that. More than anything else, their words and advice have been a comfort to me; convinced me that I'm not a bad man. I have made a LOT of mistakes and taken too much for granted. This event has changed my perspective at a fundamental level, regardless of the paths we take into the future.

Will you stay here and continue to offer your perspective? I really do just want to understand. If it's too late for me to be a better husband to you, I at least want to be a better father to our children. Your help in that is indispensable.

Welcome, Snicks.

I’m sorry I said you were nuts. I didn’t mean it in a clinical sense. I meant more as I have no real understanding of where you are coming from. I’ve said that repeatedly to Seabird. I simply couldn’t get a handle on you based on what he was telling us.

My own biases come into play here, as well as Newly’s. If you read what Newly has written, you will see she has pointed out the other side to Seabird repeatedly. My own bias is because I had a husband who didn’t help much around the house, only contributed to the bills what my income didn’t cover, who had a legal situation that put us in jeopardy, who would demand his own way, and follow me around the house yelling. He for years he refused to go to marriage counseling or make any changes. His solution to my marriage problems: 1. Just wait, it will get better and 2. Stop obesseing on how unhappy you are. I went to MC alone, and finally, I separated from my H. After the separation, I asked him to go to MC and he agreed. He didn’t do any of the homework, and he didn’t hold up an agreement. I quit and filed. After another year, when my then-husband asked me to go to MC, I tried one more time. I quit when I realized just being in the same room with him was making more and more sick. Kid you not. I got more stressed over marriage counseling as time went on, not less.

So, for me, it’s very hard to understand why you won’t give Seabird another chance. According to what he’s told us, you two went to MC two years ago, and he made the changes he thought you wanted. He thought things were better. I don’t know if you told him during this time that those weren’t the changes you wanted or need or that you weren’t happy. You may have and he may not have heard you. But, when he finds out you are so unhappy you want to leave, he’s gung-ho to make more changes. He comes here and spends a lot of energy reading and learning. He doesn’t get defensive. If anything, in the beginning he took the entire blame for the state of the marriage.

The picture he presents of himself is one of a man who acknowledges he made mistakes and wants to change.

As far as the affair thing… from reading others stories, it seemed a possibility. You have two young children and will take a hit financially and in time, not to mention breaking up their home. You seem very determined to move quickly on this, but in the beginning you weren’t eating or sleeping and were crying a lot. Again, alien to my experience, and it seemed to suggest someone deeply torn. Also, you want to continue to do stuff as a family now and after you separate. That doesn’t sound like someone who hates her husband. It sounds like someone who is looking for something else.

Of course, this is coming from me. I didn’t leave my husband until one day, I was unloading the dishwasher. B was mucking about in the refridgerator. Kneeling down. I had a heavy pan in my hand and I had the sudden urge to bash his head in with hit. I put the pan down and left the room. That minute I knew I had to leave before one of us ended up dead. I just refuse to see the obvious some times.

GG & Snick,
Perhaps our problems stem from the fact that we are professional women who wanted a career and a family and we all had expectations of a partnership where we would be equals and not responsible for everything at home and work.
As much as we had thought we discussed our expectations with our spouses, and believed they'd agreed to share responsibilities, it appears that our married lives did not turn out that way from our perspective.

So Snicks, does this sound familiar?

If we had "normal" spouses who could understand and follow the MB concepts, I doubt GG and I would be divorced now. But our spouses weren't willing to learn or even understand. We both believe in the MB principles and feel that they can help heal and restore marriages.

Oh, Newly, you know I had a hankering to be a professional volunteer like my mother, or dabble in the corporate world. I'm really a homemaker at heart. LOL.

My sleepless nights, loss of appetite, and emotional roller coaster, were all a result of how much I would be hurting those around me, the people that I love the most. First and foremost, my two little ones. I know the direct impact of an unhappy marriage and a terrible divorce. To this day, I have no relations with my own mother. She was not invited to my wedding, has never seen my children in person, and we have not spoken in over 8 years. This is a harsh reality for me with the steps that I take now and the impact they will have tomorrow.

Seabird will be a better Dad. I am confident of that but for me/us there is not a future as husband and wife. We will now learn to be the best parents that we can be independent of one another. Our children deserve that!

*I have had numerous unloading the dishwasher episodes, too.

Did you ever see a time when your mother was willing to look at herself? Her mistakes and missteps, lay claim to them, and be willing to change them?

*Should I remove you as the beneficiary of my life insurance policy?

No other person will ever love our children the way that I do. No other person will ever be willing to go to the ends that I will to make them safe, secure, and happy. No other person will love our family as unconditionally as I do, despite the hurt and the turmoil.

Over the last 2 and a half months I have felt hurt, betrayed, confused, angry, stunned, and deeply worried. With all of that, I can still say that I love you unconditionally.

That's not to win you over or to make you change your mind. It's just the truth. I don't need to feel loved in return to feel it for you. This is something that I have learned.

Snicks, welcome to MB! If you read my posts on Seabird's other thread, on the EN side, I hope you will find that I have not judged you. I encourage you to read that thread, as well. It is long, but he has gotten a lot of great advice and support that you may find relevant, too.

I came to this site almost two years ago because I was so sad (and angry!) in my marriage, in my life, and didn't know how to find happiness without tearing my family apart. I have gotten a lot of tools and support here, and have created a life that I am really happy in.

I am so happy that you're here. Thanks for your presence. We each have an important contribution we add. I hope that you stick around. This is a great place for support, as I can imagine you must be having a rough go of it right now, too. Feel free to start your own thread, too.

I encourage you to read
Why Women Leave Men
I found validation there that my feelings were normal, and that there is a solution.

Snicks, I'm really sorry you have had that kind of urge to kill your husband, too. I found it incredibly scary.

So, just suppose it wasn't too late... And I'm not saying it isn't, But suppose it wasn't. What love destroying actions (Lovebusters, in MB speak) would Seabird have to stop doing? Obviously, you don't have to answer. Or you may want to reregister under a different name so that Seabird won't know it's you.

(And yes, I know this is not part of the Radical Honesty espoused here, but Snicks doesn't feel safe for whatever reason. It's hard to be radically honest if you get hurt every time you do it.)

BTW, why don't you two put something in the separation agreement about keeping the children in the school district? That way you each can keep your options open for living areas, but the children will have continuity.

Snicks, Welcome to MB! I don't know what emotion led you here, the desire to defend your actions, morbid curiosity, or a willingness to find something worth fighting for in your M, but Welcome nonetheless!

Snicks, may I first say it takes a lot of courage to come here and post. That's really admirable. I genuinely wish my DH would consider participating, but this is not his cup of tea. No matter, we are in far better shape than before, or at least I think we are, thanks to MBers. I think you and SB have a great chance to build a new M, provided that is what you're willing to try. It may not matter if you "want" it, if you are willing to try with these principles, you may surprise yourself. The "want" will return, following the success of your actions.

With me, I have felt a similar pain, feeling like the primary everything in a M, the primary caregiver to two little ones, selfless to the point of detriment. It sounds like you gave and gave, and you feel you deserve some "me" time. Time to get regrounded, time to care for yourself, time to heal. I, too, was at the point of looking at the cost of apartments at one point. Anything to get away. Fortunately for my M, my DH and I have both put some hard work into changing our habits in order to communicate better, meet each others needs, respect each other and stop activities that drain each other. For me especially, I didn't have good boundaries. I didn't know how to speak up, or how to say "no" if I was unhappy with something. I desparately lacked negotiation skills. And in the end, this hurt our M. But on the upside, we've come so far. DH does so much now, that I sometimes wonder if I'm taking advantage of him. I try to make sure he is enthusiastic about our agreements, which significantly helps with follow through. And we spend more time together - not enough, but it is more. Furthermore, I spend more time apart with my friends or gardening. It balances out the resentment I was feeling, watching DH do anything he pleased while I "held down the fort". We are cooperating better, and I'm seeing him in a favorable light again. I wasn't sure that could happen.

And I can see your frustration with implications of another man (OM). Certainly, with you here to tell your side, we can all breath easier on that account. Sadly, many failing marriages (M's) do have this problem, and the sheer percentiles of affairs (A's) leading to divorce (D)lead old-timers to urge newcomers caution in this realm. I hope you know that these suggestions were not a personal attack, just a generalization.

I hope you stick around, the life-skills you learn can really improve all relationships (M, work, friends, parents), even the good ones.