Greetings, everyone!

I don't know if this belongs here, & this is a long one, but this is what I have to say regarding other man/other woman. My purpose is to help out those who are seeking a relationship with someone who's married, or who are already in a relationship with someone who's married, but can't let go. I feel that the OM/OW shouldn't be bashed at all, because they have no idea of what they're getting themselves into (even if done purposefully). They should NOT trust those who say that they're fully single. They need to start asking them if they're married; things like that. If the OM/OW happens to be in love with a married person, & if they can't let go of that person, then they need to seek professional counseling and/or therapy. Not to be bashful or anything, but that's what I would advise if one of my friends happens to be in a relationship with a MM/MW. What exactly do you (OM/OW) see in them? Sex? Attention? Love? Do they (OM/OW) really think that they will leave their husbands/wives for them? I don't think so. And even if they do, their chances of their relationship working out with that person would be very slim. Plus, should they happen to have a child by this married person, he/she should have visitation rights, regardless. Don't hold your kids back from them, & don't prevent your child from seeing them just because they don't want to be with you. I would hate to see a child resent their mothers & fathers (& they shouldn't; because if they disrespect their parents, their lives would get shorter.). And what would happen if the OM/OW happen to be married (or even have children) themselves? Then that would be worse than ever. So please, follow your hearts. Follow your instincts. Use better judgment. True, not everyone is nice around this world, & not everyone is good. If I have the power to change people (this entire world) into being good, I would definitely use it. As a matter of fact, that would be my very wish. But we all know that's never going to happen. I do feel sorry for OM/OW that are being used by married people, & I also feel sorry for them that manage to keep pursuing the affair, even though they know what they're up to. Perhaps it's because they have very little self-esteem within themselves, & that they still can't see what they're up against; that they can't manage to find someone who's single. Maybe it's because I'm a very nice, & sensitive person that sees the good inside everyone (& I definitely am). I always think that I could manage to change bad people into good ones. No one can force me to hate someone because of something bad that they're doing. And I know what you're probably thinking: "Are you planning to become the OM in a relationship?" My answer: Of course not! I know that it's very wrong to do that, plus I don't plan to ever become the Om in a relationship, ever. I want myself a girlfriend of my own, & not to mention that it will bring down my self esteem. I do hope & pray that one day, that spouses, OC, OM/OW, friends, family, & everyone else who's involved will get along with each other. Life's too short for hatred.

I seem to understand what you are saying regarding the OM/OW. I seems like you feel that everyone should just "get along" and that it isn't the OM/OW's fault that they are in love with the "wrong" person. I beg to differ with your opinion. Marriage is sacred, I feel that if a person is married to another and you love them and they love you they are still not "available" because of the promise they made to thier spouse. Period. "Bashing" on a forum is allowed in my opinion, it seems to let out some anger, hurt, and frustration.

I get what you're saying, but how would people feel if they said some bad things about them? They wouldn't like it, would they? I don't think that bashing someone is going to help. They don't need that, they just need some good guidance, counseling, support, etc. Plus another thing, it shouldn't matter how kids come into the world, whatever it was out of wedlock or from an affair. Just being here is a gift to everyone from God.

People who do bad things, should expect some consequences, like other people saying bad things, or at least a rebuke for thier actions. How people perceive my character based on my actions plays a important role in my decisions at work and home.



You make bashing a OM/OW sound like a bad thing. People should be able to and need to vent, and this is a place where they'll find that support.

Please if you really want to get under peoples skin, goto a rape support site and preach tolerance to the victims for the rapist. Tell them they should say "bad things" about someone who has harmed them.


Couldn't agree more on this one point.

I like to think of it in terms of the other person usually gets just what they deserve. They get hurt one way or another. Most often, they don't get the man or woman in the long run. During the affair, they spend lots of weekends alone while the married person is doing stuff with the spouse.

Should the OP marry the WS, it is no cakewalk. There are doubts and suspicions. There are ramifications galore if there are children. Some of those chickens only come home to roost years later. And affair marriage more often than not, end in divorce.

Well, I'm sorry if I offended anyone out there, I'm just letting you know how I feel about it (I'm a nice, & compassionate man). I've never been in a real relationship before, anyhow. But no matter what, we all need forgiveness. Plus I will give good advice to everyone who is suffering, & for those who are trying to sabotage relationships (marriages).

My post sounded pretty hostile after I re-read it.

My comment about the victims and thier rapists was just trying to make the point that the OP's "hurt" feelings were not high on the priorities of alot of BS'es here.

Hope you stick around <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

prince,

You do sound like a very compassionate and loving person. And you're right. Forgiveness is important. But please, forgive us here if we vent. Living through the ****** of infidelity is something I would not wish on anyone. It is one long nightmare. It's something that one can't really truly understand unless they have walked through it.

Right now, today, I do, indeed, detest other woman, who was, herself, married. She and my husband tried to ruin the lives of so many people, and only for their own selfishness. It's disgusting and despicable. I have forgiven my husband because he repents and works like a dog everyday to try and put our lives back together. As for OW, no, I can't say I have forgiven her. I am trying to leave her to God.

prince,

[color:"blue"] QUOTE:"Plus I will give good advice to everyone who is suffering, & for those who are trying to sabotage relationships (marriages). "[/color]

What advice would that be?

The advice on this site is all based on a combination of the concepts and writing of Dr Willard Harley, Jr. coupled with the personal experiences of those who have actually lived through the agony of adultery.

On this site you will find both wayward and betrayed spouses, all generally espousing the same methods and teachings to end affairs and prevent them from occurring in the future.

The Basic Concepts give an overview of what Dr Harley believes and what most people here believe as well, since we have most seen it at work.

One thing you will find, if you stick around, is that there is a very low tolerance for tolerance of adultery of any form. While a marriage may be in peril and not all that it could and should be, an affair is NEVER justifiable. A marriage can be ended without adultery and though it may hurt people, the pain and suffering caused by the lies and deception surrounding infidelity in all its forms causes so much more harm than simply walking away from a bad marriage that an affair should never be an option that is left open.

If you read the Basic Concepts, you will see that Dr Harley does not teach, and we do not believe, that the feeling of love is something that simply happens as if by magic. It is not merely an emotion that creeps up on us and we are helpless to resist. It is rather something that can be built and sustained by doing the right things.

My recommendation to you is that any advice you may give on this site be based on Dr Harley's body of work as well.

Mark

Yes, we all need forgiveness. But what of the case where the OW is also a WW and knows full well WH is married? What advise can you give me there? My M has already been sabotaged - OW and WH have already moved in together. Trust me, I have nothing nice to say about her and I don't owe her any forgiveness.

I think that it's because your husband sees her as a great relationship, but I wouldn't count on it working it out forever. You say that the OW is also married? It's only a matter of time before her husband finds out about this. And then your husband will have to wind up dealing with him, & it won't be pretty. The best thing you can do is tell her husband about this (if you haven't), because it might be the only way to save your marriage. the OW should definitely go back to her husband, immediately.

Her husband knows - he was the one that caught them. Both OW and WH knew each other was married. Nevertheless, they engaged in the affair. When she was caught, WH and OW went to great lengths to make sure I didn't find out. Meanwhile, WH gave me the ILYBNILWY speach and asked for a divorce. 5 days later, I found out about her. OW ripped her 7yo daughter out of her home, moved in with a "friend" who allowed WH to stay for 3 weeks until they got an apartment. In 5 short weeks, 2 families were shredded. And if that weren't enough, OW and WH are doing everything they can to pushed the other on their spouses. We (OWH and I) get told time and time again we have to get used to the OP. They bring each other to our houses when we aren't expecting them. They bring each other to places they know we are going to be. They are totally malicous and thrive on our pain. Then they turn around and want more from us.

So yes, I hate the OW. She is a %$#^$%^&&&^ (fill in what you want there) of the worst kind. I hate WH as well, but I have known him to do good things in the past. OW exists just to make my life ******.

I do feel pity for the OW/OM who is not aware of the marital status of their BF/GF. But once they know, they should act like an adult, embrace their pain, and leave this R in the dust. If not, they are selfish, churlish thieves, for whom I have no pity for their sich.

Whom are they stealing from? That BS who loses marital funds (for fixing up the house, vacation, or a car payment) when the WS takes their A-partner out on the town. OW/OM are stealing a parent's time from the children of the M. They have stolen trust and respect, taken from but not returned to the BS. Sometimes they steal life expectancy, when a disease is brought back to the M. Or if OC is created, that WS now has to pay for TWO households, and the cost effectiveness of a shared roof by siblings is lost. So is the benefit of being raised and having lifelong bonds with your siblings (a few days here and there don't count). So the OM/OW has stolen from their own children. There is nothing desirable, admirable, or respectible with regards to theft.

As people, I understand everyone makes mistakes. But I think a "good person" learns from their mistakes and strives for better.

I definitely agree with you. Everyone makes mistakes, & I believe that OM/OW aren't evil, just confused & misguided. I also think that the OM/OW should take the time to find & read these books here, as they contain very helpful advice about it (Yes, I'm a guy, & I'm giving you the names of these books; not to mention that I also purchased them):

The Other Man the Other Woman: Understanding & Coping With Extramarital Affairs by Joel D. Block.

Will he really leave her for me? By B. Subotnik.

This Affair Is Over!! By Nanette Miner.

I doubt anybody believes that they, themselves, are evil. But the acts that OP commit certainly are. I don't think it's simple confusion or misdirection either. And speaking from my own sitch, where even my WH is also an OM, I can see a number of character flaws at work. List of these flaws include (note: us = myself and OWH; them = WH and OW)

1) Neither one of them would read this site or these books - neither have interest in restoring their M's.

2) They see us as the bad guys, despite both of us being completely blindsided.

3) They have no clue the degree to which they have hurt us. If they did, they truly would be evil so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt here.

4) They continue to do things that are outright cruel to us. This may be out of pure ignorance (see #3), but some of it is pretty obvious.

5) They say and do cruel things to their children and then blame it on us (I could write a book on the crap they've pulled here). Many of these things are obvious as well (WH took DS to the movies for his birthday - ended up bringing her along and not only would she not speak to him because in her view he is devil's spawn, but they spent the entire time making out and leaving him to sit and watch them, and this is nothing compared to what they've done to her DD which includes having sex with her in the room while she cried for her daddy and she's only 7).

6) Not allowing the daughter to call her dad while with her mom.

7) They are pathological liars

8) They are thiefs - both of them have attempted to steal from both of us (he tried to get into my house when I wasn't home and she broke into OWH's car).

I could go on and on. And my separation is a pleasure cruise compared to some I've heard about. At least the financial aspects worked out.

So though I'm sure neither one of them believe they are evil people, and that the only real mistakes they made were getting married to their lawfully wedded spouses, this just shows their true lack of character and utter stupidity in that they can't even see what kind of monsters they have become.

"I get what you're saying, but how would people feel if they said some bad things about them?"

My WXH and the OW he was committing adultery with didn't care about the immense hurt they inflicted on me or my daughters so why should I care how they might feel about "bad things" being said about them?

My oldest daughter was hospitalized for severe depression for over two months. My youngest daughter started cutting herself and said that she felt like her dad was pretending she was dead (when he told her she could only leave messages on his cell phone when he was with the OW and her little girl - because he didn't want his time with them interrupted by his own daughter).

When I told my WH and the OW how their adultery was affecting my daughters they didn't care. ALL they cared about was their selfish and sinful behavior!

BTW, adulterers DO say bad things about the people they betray. Putting down the faithful spouse while pretending the adultery partner is somehow better than the betrayed spouse is pretty common. My FWX complained to the OW that his daughters were a 'burden'... Not very nice thing to say about your own children.

But hey, the important thing is let's not say anything that might make a betraying scum bucket feel bad...

I was meaning, how would the BS feel if they were judged & bad things were said about them? But I'm sorry that this has happened to you, & there's absolutely no way should he ever talk about his children like that! Relationships come & go, but children are forever. Also, what I want to know is, why must people keep trying to find love with married people? It will only lead to them being used & being heartbroken in the end. All single/divorced men should only stick to single &/or divorced women, & all single/divorced women should only stick to single &/or divorced guys! And if the man or woman already have relationships of their own (boyfriend/girlfriend, fiance, or husband/wife), they should stick to them & not bother with married ones. Period. If they're not happy with them, then they should either work it out or get out of it. I'm a single man at 25, & I know a lot about these things, but it's a shame that this world has to be this way.

PG, many people on this board were married longer than your 25 years of age before it was destroyed by an OP. You can't possibly know the pain of infidelity - especially in a long term relationship. You can't possibly know the grief and fear of losing everything that was once secure in your life. It's one thing to say what people should or shouldn't do. Most people know these things - even WS's and OP's know this. They do it anyway. You don't think a BS is justified in saying nasty things about them? As a BS, I KNOW nasty things were said about me.

I understand what you're saying. I just think that life is too short for hatred (this is what I've been taught). Honestly, I don't know what it's like to be betrayed because I've never been in a relationship before (at least not a real one), but I know how painful it is to the BS. If I had a girlfriend or wife, & if someone has been messing with my girlfriend or wife, I would be mad, too. I wouldn't go further to pick a fight with him, as I know I'll be going to jail for that & wound up having a bad record; it's not worth it. I would just break up with her & move on with my life. And it's certainly not easy to get over the pain of what that person has done to you, as it takes lots of time & energy. Plus I do also feel bad for you in your relationship, & what people had said bad things about you. It's OK for people like you to vent your anger on what has happened; you don't have to hide it; just let it all out. Plus everyone does have a right to have their frustrations about their troubled relationships & marriages posted on here.

Ummmm, NO you don't.