Yuck, Suzet this seems to glamorize or add to the fantasy part of affairs. Yuck yuck yuck

let me tell you the unvarnished truth from a VERY former (recovered) wayward wife:

It scorches your very soul. It takes your morals and twists them into knots in order to justify stepping outside of your M, hurting your H, your children, yourself and anyone else in the vicinity of your selfishness. THEN you get to spend the rest of your life knowing that these bad decisions are now woven into the fabric of your being. They will always be there, recovered or not. Shame on anyone, "expert" or not for glamorizing something to tears lives apart and hurts everyone involved.

Personally, I think the article makes women look like hapless, simpering fools who are not clever enough to solve their problems in a manner that reflects decency, honor and character. Not all women resolve their problems by becoming adulterers, thankfully. And many who do, live with horrific regret, pain and guilt for YEARS as Suzet outlined.

I can't tell if the author is simply trying to DEFINE certain states of mind or RATIONALIZING them in the absence of any solutions or conclusions so it is hard to judge her point. I still don't get it.

So, what is your story?

Also Steve Harley's words, on THIS website...

Dear Dr. Harley,
My wife of nineteen years has been having an affair with a co-worker for at least two months. She has admitted to spending long hours with the man and, in effect, making him the focus of her emotional being instead of me. She claims that the two have not had sex, but I am convinced that they have had sex because of phrases in letters of hers that she wrote him. She denies this.
He has ended the affair with my wife for fear of losing his children. She has left the state for a few weeks (the trip was planned long before I found out about the affair), and I am left alone with the images.
I want to forgive her, but I feel that she has not revealed the full depth of her betrayal, and that I would not be able to completely forgive her as long as there is still some doubt. Is it possible to forgive what you fear, without confirmation?
C.S.

Dear C.S.,
The question you need to ask yourself is, do I want my wife to love me? Or even, do I want to be married to her? If the answer to these questions is "no," then I don't have much advice for you. But if the answer is "yes," you have a lot of work ahead of you, and "forgiveness" is about the last thing I'd be worried about just yet. Your wife almost left you, and if you're not careful, she eventually will. What you just experienced was a wake-up call.

The reason her relationship didn't go anywhere was that her friend wanted his own marriage to survive, not because she wanted hers to survive. As a marriage counselor, I am always hoping that the friend will do just that so I can help the couple rebuild their marriage without interference. But don't think for a minute that their relationship is over, or that she will ever be really sorry for what she did. But you have a chance right now to save your marriage, and what you do in the next few months will be crucial.

First, let's analyze the problem. Over the past few years, you and your wife have grown apart. You have become incompatible, and you are not meeting her emotional needs. She probably isn't meeting yours either. She found someone who meets her needs, and was willing to give up her relationship with you to be with him. She comes back to you reluctantly, because she has no choice. But it gives you an opportunity.

You must take this opportunity to prove to her that you can do something you haven't been doing for some time: Meet her most important emotional needs. First, you need to discover them. What was her friend doing that she found so irresistible? He probably talked to her, showed an interest in her, was respectful and encouraging, demonstrated his care by being there for her when she needed him. And maybe, most important, he didn't criticize her or try to straighten her out.

Call her, send her flowers, tell her how much you love her, how much you miss her. Don't smother her, but let her know in no uncertain terms that you value your relationship with her.

Even though you have been very hurt by her affair, don't blame her for it. Don't expect her to apologize and don't ask her to explain the gory details.

She is probably suffering depression over the relationship not working out. It's a common symptom of withdrawal. She will want to talk to someone about how badly she feels. Try to be the one she confides in, even if what she says is how much she misses this other man. DON'T JUDGE HER! If you do, she simply won't open up to you. If you can't handle it, she should talk to a friend or a counselor, but don't risk losing her by venting your anger or your judgment on her.
Granted, you're in a tough situation, but one I've seen work out a vast majority of the time. It may take six months to two years to recover your wife's love, but when it's over you will have the relationship with each other that you have both needed throughout your married life.

ok....?

And for you BH's out there NOT ALL WOMEN experience this crappola. My A was due to my own selfishness and immaturity as well as my inability to properly express my needs and my hurts to my husband. It had NOTHING to do with sex though I did use that to get what I "wanted" it was a means to get what I need from the xOM.

MHBN, I am getting the impression that you believe Marriage Builders BLAMES the affair on the betrayed spouse. Do you think that?

Hi all -

I don't know where Langley claims to have gotten her information (who she interviewed or how many women), but what she describes is a foggy WW from start to finish. Examples…

"Unable to end their extramarital relationships"
"The reason many women will give for their desire to separate is a “search for self.”"
"Women who are having affairs experience feelings unlike anything they have experienced before. They feel “alive” again and many believe they have found their soul mates."
"The women who chose divorce and were in the beginning stages of a new relationship typically expressed relief at having finally made a decision and reported feeling normal again."

There isn't an example of a former or recovered WW in these proposed stages, or how to become an FWW, or recover.

For MBers who are discouraged by this author, remember that writing a book doesn't make someone an expert about anything. Writers who want to make money look for current events to write about. Infidelity is a popular subject, A's are rampant, and people (in America, anyway) spend large amounts of money on "self-help" books.

It's no secret that people (men and women) get bored in M when the romance wears off (explanation of Langley's stage one), are faced with temptation (her stage 2), rationalize a "good" reason not to resist temptation (her stage 3), and stay in fog to be able to live with the consequences of their actions (her stage 4).

That is why we all (male and female) have to learn how to protect our minds and our M's (resist temptation), learn what our S's needs are, and commit ourselves to meeting those needs that are a S's responsibility to meet.

God bless -
Rose

Amen, sister!

As a formerly wayward spouse who divorced her H (who was also wayward too many times) and rebounded into another marriage (which included moving to his country from mine), what I can add to FF's comments above is that for some of us, the consequences of our choice (the initial one - the one where we cheated) have such far-reaching effects that we'll never be able to fully heal - and "heal" may not be the right word. It's like there's a permanent bruise there. At least that's true for me.

I agree very much with this, Rose. Great post. As I said earlier, this is like listening to the rantings of a falling down drunk. Focusing on fogbabble takes the focus AWAY from recovery and helps no one. Marriage Builders focuses on solutions, not babble and blameshifting.

Hi Melodylane-

"Marriage Builders focuses on solutions, not babble and blameshifting."

Not to mention the fact that Dr. Willard Harley is a licensed psychologist with decades of experience!

Rose

Wasn't it FWH, 2Oaks, who said if you want to "find yourself" to remove your head from your [censored]!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll never forget an old Bill Cosby routine where he complained that one of his kids wanted to "find himself," and Bill Cosby said, angrily, "I'LL find ya!!!!!" LOL.

My ex fits most of her description.

What's she doing now? She met a new guy who is a virtual clone. He's the son of an immigrant doctor. He looks like me 10 years younger. He looks like a nice guy and is very polite.

I don't know if he's educated or not, but he carries himself well.

She's engaged to him now. Less than a year since she started dating him and just a little over a year after leaving me.

What's going to happen? I'm sure he'll disappoint her despite his best efforts and she'll want to leave him in 4 years.

Either that or he'll get sick and tired of taking care of 3 kids that aren't his and a hypochondriac wife.

I actually found Ms Langley's website before coming here. I did not buy her book, but did find it at the library.

I read enough of it to consider that it offered no solution to my problems and offered no hope at all of having a healthy marriage. I stopped reading it and checked out SAA, since I had just found this site.

I did post on Langley's forums a few times. There was one poster who would often siphon off those he felt really wanted to have a better marriage and sent them here. FWIW, he is a regular here. I won't mention his name, but he knows who he is....Thanks, BTW!

What I found from Langley was a terrific explanation of the wayward mindset, from a WW point of view. It contained all of the justifications and "whys" given as excuses for making a bad choice. It describes the addictive qualities of an A in detail and explains why it is so hard to give up.

I found nothing that gave any reason or hope for a change in that mindset. I did not see anything that told a husband who was being turned into a helpless nut case by his W's A how to stop the pain, beyond saying, "this is how it works, deal with it or leave."

I stopped reading because I was looking for hope, not an explanation. I already knew what had happened, had a good understanding of how, and had already heard first hand the excuses and justifications a WS gives. What I needed was a plan to break the cycle and give us a chance to actually recover, not merely remain married.

I found that here and in SAA.

Mark

MHBN, I am getting the impression that you believe Marriage Builders BLAMES the affair on the betrayed spouse. Do you think that?

Absolutely NOT. But, I do believe that the BS has to accept his/her share of responsibility for causing the marriage to be in the sh*tty place that it is. This is also what the Harleys believe. They go so far as to say that in addition to the WS apologizing for what they have done, the BS should apologize for not living up to their end of the bargain. I am very simply in agreement with the Harleys' philosophies.

Did I have an EA because I am a ho?? Ridiculous. I have never in my life been promiscuous.

Did I have an EA because my needs were not met at home and I was blindingly, patheticly desperate for a scrap of affection and some positive attention for a change?? You betcha.

Should I have left my husband instead of cheating and compromising my integrity? Without a doubt.

I have had a year to make up to him for what I have done, to provide restitution for my wrong-doings; I have received nothing in return but the back of his hand (metaphoricly speaking).

Am I ripe for another affair right now because my needs are unmet? Yes.

Will I have another affair? No.

Will I leave my emotionally incapable husband? This is likely my one and only choice.

MBN

Great post MBN.

"Absolutely NOT. But, I do believe that the BS has to accept his/her share of responsibility for causing the marriage to be in the sh*tty place that it is. This is also what the Harleys believe. They go so far as to say that in addition to the WS apologizing for what they have done, the BS should apologize for not living up to their end of the bargain. I am very simply in agreement with the Harleys' philosophies."

I agree. Many BS's here bristle at the thought, that's STILL no excuse for having an A. And that is true too. If a BS won't admit they have any changing to do and all they want to do it beat up their WS repeatedly for being such a sorry [censored], you're just going to find yourself chasing around a cheating spouse again. Usually, changes have to be made on BOTH sides.

Even though I feel my A was one of the biggest mistakes in my life, I can relate to what the paragraphs from Langley are saying. What led me to get involved in my A was I felt misunderstood and not appreciated by my H. I was too big of a wimp to stand up to him and demand changes or a D, so I chose to seek solice in someone I thought "understood me". Actually, I had found someone who knew how to play me.

I hate to say my M is better because of my A, it's left an ugly scar on it. But that scar is also a reminder that we need to nurture and care for each other. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way... it's our flaw as humans.

[color:"red"] from my notable posts thread [/color]

HERE is the LINK

"As long as you believe that your H had an affair because his emotional needs were not being met (as a *primary* reason) you will be meeting his emotional needs out of fear, there will always be a gun held to your head. Your H had an affair because he failed to protect HIMSELF from his own vulnerabilities, period. He is accountable and responsible for all"

[color:"red"] I love you Rose55 [/color]

Hi Pepperband-

Aw. And I greatly admire your taste in wise quotes! I feel so affirmed! LOL. Thanks for the warm fuzzy! (((Pepperband)))

God bless,
Rose