I am grudgingly coming to accept this.



Yup. Went to the gym today before she got back with the kids. I was too exhausted to fight. I'm going to try to make a pattern of that. Everything was calm and reasonable.

For the record, I've been through all this before. It didn't involve infidelity last time so there wasn't the stick part, but the plan was the same. It wasn't "plan A" since I wasn't familiar with this site at the time, but the idea was exactly the same.

I was able to pull it off then. And I have no illusions how difficult it is. That's why I'm dragging my feet now.

I haven't read all the posts because it was a long night and I'm too tired but I did want to mention one thing. If I were in your position, I would get a lawyer and ask him to file a petition to get your WW's and OM's email records from their employer. Those records are the sole property of the company so WW and OM can't object. I don't live in the US so I'm not sure this can be done but I would do it even if it were not possible. The petition can always be denied but it will get their employer's lawyers involved and grab the heart and mind of the HR department.

You can go to HR yourself and explain about the A. I have seen this succeed and fail. It depends on the individuals involved. But I do know that no company likes to end up in court for any reason. You say the company has a policy against workplace relationships. That's good. That means that HR won't fear the possibility of a wrongful dismissal suit in case someone gets fired.

As far as WW losing her job and staying home giving her more chance for custody - that is a real stretch for me. I think it's a moot issue.

Any help you wish from OMW, the sooner the better. Get what you want as quickly as you can. Tell her to make an exposure list and expose to everyone on that list now. She may want to save her M at this moment but you never know when she will run out of gas.

Yeah, you're right.

I'll make the decision to do more exposure early in the week. I might not have to. If there's going to be any fallout from the two of them telling their bosses it would probably happen sooner rather than later.

Meanwhile, the OM is cracking under the pressure of the exposure. I'm in contact with his wife, and she reports that he's walking around like a zombie and crying. He has had a lot of alone time in the past two days, and his wife doing everything right (treating him kindly, enjoying time with friends and family, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if he breaks soon. That's when the real hard work will start for her.

Another thought: If either marriage is going to recover one or both of them are going to have to either get fired or quit. There would be no way to have No Contact otherwise. Sucks, but that's life. Worrying that they might lose their jobs due to more exposure is irrelevant.

(Still, it's tough...)

It's a real shock going from sunshine, roses and butterflies dancing on the lilacs in the meadow to wondering if you are going to be able to pay the electric bill all in the space of a day or two.

Bummer.

You gotta feel sorry for the poor guy. Not!

That's a twisted thought Piojitos.

I love it!

I'd have some sympathy if this weren't an all-out, scorched-earth kind of war.

I wouldn't. Nobody twisted his arm. He intentionally chose to destroy two families. Screw him.

I'm not sure that can be done. Companies don't part with proprietary and confidential information easily.

BUT...

This gives me an idea. What a lawyer would request is company credit card statements and travel records. These are used to justify a request for custody. Happens all the time.

I don't know whether it could be done or not. That's not the point. It isn't important that YOU look at those records. It is important that THEY look at those records. What you would be doing is drawing their attention to what you already know. You would be sending a message that this is serious business and that they had better get their ducks all nice and line up ready for parade inspection.

You don't ask for ALL their emails - you ask for only the affair-related emails. So the company has to sift through them.

I suggested mmmike come here and talk when he shared his situation with me.

Pio--it's good to see you posting to 3M. Kinda funny, but based on what I remember about your posts, I think the two of you would be great friends in another lifetime.



I'm so glad 3M is posting here--it certainly got me through some very long nights. Keep the faith 3M--think about those adorable little kiddies--it's not about you and WS anymore--it's about them.

Thanks, but I'm not feeling all that stable and methodical.

I have something I could use advice on right now:

As I mentioned before, I am in contact with the other guy's wife. I was able to convince her to do part of the plan, but she is balking at a key piece. She's done the exposure part and she's done the part about quitting all the arguing, attacking, whining, threatening, and berating. That part is working. What she's NOT doing is letting him know that she'll take him back. She is pretty locked in to wanting everything over (even though I think deep down that's not what she wants).

His fantasy world and his real life are both in ruins. The right words from her now could turn the tide. Any advice on what I can say to her?

On my end things are going according to plan. Had lunch with WS before she left on her latest business trip today, and it was all good (even though I still felt like vomiting at the table). The kids were happy, we talked about peripheral stuff...she got a good look at what she thinks she's so eager to give up. Before she left there were even hugs. She called from the airport to see what we were up to, and volunteered (with no prompting) to call as soon as she lands.

I'll have a meeting with the marriage counselor set up for the day she returns.

So how do I get the other guy's wife to simply offer the possibility of reconciliation? She's got him on the ropes -- I think she can get the KO.

(Of course, the main reason I want her to do this is because it would help my situation. I'm a selfbish b****** that way.)

Just a little bump. Any advice would be really appreciated.

This is why I said get what you can out of her quickly. This is deja vu for me. It happens a lot. Just try to convince her to sxpose to everyone she can think of. She has every right to divorce. Don't spend energy on dissuading her intentions.

In your case, I think the employer is key. You have to look at this one nine ways to Sunday to see how you can get someone fired.

Just the fact that she is doing any plan A-ing signifies that there must be some hope there, otherwise why would she bother? But I agree you can't really do much to sway her to stay in her marriage. Has she said anything that indicates she is concerned how the breakup will affect their child (is it their child, or her child from a different relationship)?

Agree very much with pio, exposure to the employer would be devastating to the affair. And like he said, you can't talk her out of divorce. Sometimes divorce is the best answer, however, I would suggest to her divorce is permanent while her anger IS NOT. She might be able to have a good marriage if the affair ends. But again, only she knows what she can or can't endure.

Well, 3M, you can't "make" anyone do anything...therefore, you can't "make" OMW say that she's willing to take him back. Nothing personal, but you have no idea if this is his first A!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Furthermore, she may have gone into this M with a boundary that if there's ever infidelity, she is OUTTA THERE! So she may be honoring one of her own boundaries.

I would suggest this one thing: when you speak to her, you might want to suggest to her that she just keep an open mind and make any decisions about her M at a time when she is not so emotionally charged. For example, she doesn't have to say that she's willing to reconcile right now--after all, that is effectively giving him carte blanche to have affairs AND come back scott-free (in her eyes). However! Right now she is really hurt and upset, and everyone (even those of us who are emotional, feeler types) know that it's not smart to make a life-changing decision when you're all emotional. Thus, it's reasonable to suggest to her that even though she's hurt and has every right to kick his a$$ to the curb, that she just keep an open mind to the possibility based on how WH responds and works to repair the M.



--CJ

Four days ago she said she would do anything to save her marriage. Now she's too angry to even consider it. Not much I can do.

Exactly--there isn't much you can do. As I said, you don't know if this is OM's first A--and if he's the kind of man who would leave a 2yo after 6 weeks...ah, nothing personal but he's not a real gem! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> She may have every reasonable right to be so angry! She may have been lied to and treated poorly over and over.

BUT, as you pointed out, four days ago she was one ways and four days later she's another. Who's to say what another four days will bring? Maybe OM will completely ditch your WW, go back to OMW and confess to his pastor and set up some IC for his obvious problems...and OMW will see that he's serious about repairing things.

(OTOH, this will royally pi$$ off your WW because she was dumped).

That's why I suggested that you just validate that she has every right to kick him to the curb, but that she consider having an open mind for the sake of her child and see what happens. Is it unlikely that OM will "come around"? OH YEAH!! But then again, I've seen some WS lose family and jobs through exposure and then completely see the light.

There's no rush for her to decide today. It's a lifetime decision--she can make it in a wise way after some time of thoughtfulness.




--CJ

3M, just remember that OMW is going thru the same rollercoaster you are. If it makes her feel better to SAY she's divorcing him, she might calm down. Plus, she probably feels very threatened by your wife (hot shot exec jetting all over the place while she's home changing poopy diapers. Keep your spirits up as much as possible. Before this whole thing started, there were plenty of good things in your marriage.

Now, of course, it's hard to remember that.