pio is correct. Bosses have been known to cover up a thing or two. When HR is notified and others are CCed, folks can't cover anything up because others are watching. The boss is forced to take the most official action at the direction of HR. It is the most effective way to expose at work.

What about a semi-anonymous email to HR, asking what the policy is in these situations? In other words, rat them out while maintaining plausible deniability?

Why do you want deniability? I don't understand why you are dancing around this. I have two words for you: scorched earth. It works.

My WW hated me when I exposed OM. She got over it.

Do you want everybody to be happy or do you want to save your M? Your emotions are all over the place but your goal is fixed. Don't trust yourself - trust your purpose.

huh? Anonymous=no credibility. Anonymous=throw it in the trash. It is nothing more than gossip without your name. Besides, how can you take credit for it if you do it anonymously?

Who cares what their policy is?? The goal here is to EXPOSE, not to find out their policy.

You know what, 3M? I don't get it. Why are you skirting this? Are you afraid of something??

Here are the facts as I see them. The affairees met via the company. They are using company laptops, cell phones, and email accounts to pursue extra-marital, sexual contact. Two employees are engaged in sexually harassing behavior that is provable by the employees' respective spouses. The company is at significant legal risk! They are also in a significant position to SQUASH the affair -or- remove one or the other or both of them from the company...thereby SQUASHING the affair.

Yet you refuse to move. You refuse to take the wise advice of several people who have demonstrated to you why it is so wise to write a formal letter to HR, the boss, his supervisor and the head of the company! Why?

Most companies (even LITTLE ones) have some sort of sexual harassment policy. Most define sexual harassment as "interaction between individuals of the same or opposite sex that is characterized by unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when ... such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment."

An affair meets that legal definition!!

Soooooo...all you need to do is inform HR, the boss, his boss and the head of the company that there is a sexual affair between A and B, that they are BOTH employees of the company, that it is unwanted by you, that they have used company property to continue the unwanted sexual contact (laptops, cell phones, email, company travel), and that at this time you believe it is affecting their work performance and creating an offensive work environment.

AT THAT POINT after they have received a report of sexual harassment, the company (namely HR) is under a legal obligation to step in and end the affair or they will be liable for a sexual harassment lawsuit by both you and OMW. It will not be you or her being "mean, demanding or controlling"--it will be THEIR COMPANY enforcing their legal requirements in order to keep the company's heiney out of court!! No company wants to have a sexual harassment lawsuit, trust me! No one wins!!

So why are you fighting this? What is stopping you??



--CJ

Right now just me.

I've been digging online to find an employee manual for the company. No luck. Haven't found one in WW's home office either.

3M, you don't need an employee manual, though. What are you doing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Here are two sample sexual harassment policies:

Sample Number 1

Sample Number 2

So if YOU are what is standing in your way...why do you want to assist your W in continuing her A? What do you get out of it? A feeling of power? Like you have a weapon you can use against her? Don't know how to face reality? Afraid to stand up to your wife?

I'm not trying to be mean or emasculate you here--the fact is, some wives are abusive and domestically violent, and if that's your situation, then our advice to you might change! But...we need to get to the root of this...what is stopping you?

Once we figure that out, we will be able to move forward.




--CJ

I'm giving up.

I'm thinking the best thing to do is file for divorce and fight for what's best for the kids.

I'm having a bad night.

Mike, that is NOT the best thing for anybody. The best thing for all is to do your best to save this marriage. Your kids need you to do your best to save their family. YOU ARE ALL THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW.

So, go have a good cry, soak in the tub and come back here and get ready to get to work on this mess. This is FAR from hopeless. You haven't even started yet, my friend. We have seen far worse than this come back and turn into a happy, productive marriage.

What's going on?

I see that you're kinda "online" now--tell us what's going on.

Mike, are you concerned that your wife will be furious when you expose at work? WE KNOW SHE WILL and are fully prepared for this to happen. But the goal here is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid making her mad. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger on her part, it cannot survive an ongoing affair. We know that your best chances lie in killing this affair, and that is best achieved via exposure.

mmm,

You can divorce at any time. It is your right. Nobody will second guess you.

I was ready to throw in the towel many times. One time I was going to divorce WW simply because Bigger used a word in an email that I misinterpreted. Tiny little things can set us off.

What I want to know is what has appreciably changed in your sitch between yesterday (ready to fight for the M) and today (might as well divorce). If this is just a pity party, wipe away the tear and get your butt in gear. I know it seems impossible. Been there, been proven wrong.

3M,

Let me phrase this the following way. IF you want a divorce, then you want a good settlement right? It is best for your kids to have financial resources as they get older. So what you do is go find a lawyer tomorrow. You explain the situation. You explain that the company has been notified according to WW and OM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, and you get a subpoena for email, IM, text messaging, everything on the companies equipment. You then have your lawyer show up with a lawsuit against the company and talk some real money.

3 things are going to happen.

1. The company will try to bluff, but if one of them is a supervisor that won't last. You have testimony from yourself and OM'sW. So at some point they are going to talk settlement, AND firing one or both of these fools.

2. Your WW is going to be soooooo mad and that is a good thing. It brings them out of withdrawal. MAD is better than withdrawal.

3. The affair is exposed and it will end, and you may get another shot at your marriage, you may get a settlement if the marriage goes under, and divorce is NOT going to look so good to your WW.

How is that for a scenario? OR you can quit, get divorced, get screwed in the courts because you are a male, and then realize you should have fought for something.

It is late, I am tired, but I think you really need to listen to what people are telling you. IF you want out, then go out with the potential of some money, or at least getting the companies attention.
If you want to remain in the marriage, you need to make some waves, because unless they receive resistance, they will think all is good with their thinking. IT IS NOT.

Please think on this and get a lawyer involved tomorrow, they can help get this going one way or another. Your W has seen a lawyer, don't be a step behind on this, as a male you are already playing catch up, and giving her a step lead will cost YOU and your kids.

God Bless,

JL

That's not a huge motivator. We both make decent money, and I think given our situation for the past five years the chances are better than 50/50 I would get primary residential custody (stonecold can sense check me on that).

I probably wouldn't be able to hold on to the house, but I could move us into half as much house and still be doing fine.

For Pio: it's not so much self-pity as it is resignation. I went through this once befoe (sans infidelity) and did all the heavy lifting required to turn the situation around.

Look, she doesn't want her marriage and doesn't seem to want her family. She's on another business trip right now and hasn't bothered to call her kids. She was gone all last week and never called the kids. We were talking one night last week and I had to suggest that she talk to them -- not maliciously or anything, just a "Hey while I've got you on do you want to talk to the kids?" It dawned on me yesterday that this is nothing new. In the past our conversations during her trips have centered around what she's doing where she is, not what's happening back home.

Last night I was dealing with a number of kid related issues that aren't a joy but are just a part of life. I've been dealing with that stuff by myself for years -- even during the times things were going well. Don't get me wrong, she loves the kids, she's just able to forget them when she's travelling. Even before the current problems it was clear she resented the distraction her family caused whenever she was away.

I don't see that changing, even if everything else were fixed.

3M, you are going through the same ups and downs that everyone here has seen. I know it seems bad from where you sit, but trust me, your story is very tame compared to some stories. Not all turn out with a happy ending--there are never any guarantees.

A year from now, you will not be saying, dang, I should have filed for divorce sooner. You'll be saying, "These kids have gone through he11 and back--maybe I should have tried harder for their sake."


You're getting good advice here. These folks have lived it.

Okay, here's the first draft of the email I will send to WW's boss, division president, and HR. Comments and suggestions welcome:

As some or all of you are aware, my wife xxxx is engaged in an affair with
another [company] employee. It began in xxxxx in April, and after a few short weeks
the two of them have decided divorce their spouses so they can be together. There are
small children involved, so I'm sure you can appreciate how painful this is for everyone.

xxxx's revelation of this affair and her desire to break up our family came as a complete
shock to me. On June 9th, barely six weeks after xxxx first got together with the other
[company] employee, I was informed of her intention to leave our marriage and pursue a new
life with this other man (who is also married and has a small child).

Looking back it appears this infidelity was pursued using company resources (phones, computers, travel, expense accounts).
Because of this you should be aware that xxxx's phone, travel, and expense records will be
requested and pursued, as they will be germane to the upcoming divorce and child custody decisions. [company]'s
adherance to its corporate policies regarding situations like this will also be scrutinized.

I am deeply saddened that this situation has come to pass. I would like nothing more than to
see my family whole again. Unfortunately, that appears to be impossible at this time.

mmm- we seemed to be posting simultaneously. My post came in just above yours.

Take out the second paragraph. It is unnecessary.

The first paragraph is pretty good. The remainder is great.

Glad to have you back.