Jethro, I doubt jennifer told WS everything was your fault. What she may have said was, and by your own admission, your relapse in depression made it difficult for WS to be close to you. I think it's possible for a counselor to admit that both parties played a role in the infidelity, but WS was, in the end, the one who made the choice to leave the family. When is your next session? It's probably good tht jennifer is your counselor for now, especially if WS likes her. I can't give you good advice on Plan A--not my strong suit. Other folks here are giving good advice, though.

Don't get me wrong. There's no way the MC said that. That's only what WW heard.

Last night WW said she is as much to blame for not doing the things required for a healthy marriage as I am.

Oh well. Went to the gym this morning and had a nice workout. Picked up some gourmet food near the gym, took it home, and was actually able to eat a little. I've lost 15 lbs. in 14 days.

Tonight after dinner I'm going out for a beer. I feel like my mood will suck all of the energy out of wherever I go. Should be interesting to see, in a detached, clinical sort of way.

Wednesday. It will be just me on the phone -- WW will be on a plane at the time of the appointment. When I told her about it she seemed disappointed she wouldn't be on the call. Maybe she can have half of the session after her plane lands.

StoneCold wrote:


NEVER EVER is a Betrayed Spouse responsible for their cheating spouse's very poor decision to cheat. NEVER!

Other than that, I can imagine Jenn validated your wife's unhappiness with the marriage prior to the affair. However, she would never tell her she was justified in cheating.

Trust her 3M, she knows what she's doing. She has a plan, as will you.

Jo

Resilient, Don't misread my quote. I said
"I think it's possible for a COUNSELOR to admit..."

Didn't say I'd agree. Just noting that some counselors take that approach. Heck, I think even Dr. Laura has said that. Again, not that I agree. Probably one of the reasons I can't listen to most of what she says.(Didn't know jethro was talking to Jennifer at the time.)

I think most of us would be quick to admit that BS's can contribute to a bad marriage, but should not accept responsibility for the affair.

NOT a Marriage Builder COUNSELOR. And we are on the Marriage Builders' site using Marriage Builders' principles.

If you read throughout Harleys articles and their books they are very clear that a BS is in no way shape or form responsible for the WS's decision to cheat as a response to a deteriorating marriage.

Quite the contrary. The WS is 100% solely responsible for that very destructive decision.

Jo

Jet,

You've got Jennifer as your MC? That's great. She is good at pulling the good stuff out of the muck. She also will clearly see WS babble vs spoken truth. Jen will guide you on a personal recovery plan 1st for you and then one for your M.

Read up on SAA & HNHN, then work with her.

Jennifer has been at this for a long time. She will help you keep the right perspective.

It is good your next meeting is only with you. Gives you more time to work with her.

Tell Jennifer, we said: Hi! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

It doesn't appear WW is in contact with OM. Or at least she isn't spending beaucoup time talking/IMing with him. I'm wondering if there's trouble in paradise. WW is dragging around. Withdrawals? Who knows.

I think one bit from the MC yesterday got through to WW. Up to now she's been able to convince herself that she tried and tried and tried to have a good marriage before she gave up. But after hearing from the MC what is really required to keep things alive she realizes that she did bupkis.

A family outing is planned for tomorrow. It's going to be a real trial for me.

Okay 3M, this will be hard and I know you may not like what I have to say, just know I've worn your shoes and then some.

Tomorrow is a great Plan A opportunity (and thats how you need to look at it) to demonstrate to your WW how things CAN be with you two. You need to push your taker instincts down and allow your GIVER to rule.

Tomorrow is all about WW need meeting. And no, you don't have to kiss her [censored], but you do need to treat her with respect and if you can muster it and she allows it, some love and attention.

Plan A is not being a doormat or any such nonsense. Plan A is to work on yourself and take responsibility for your part in the deterioration of the marriage thereby demonstrating those improvements to your WW.

An added bonus is you will have lots of opportunity to eat some good food, which you really need.

What say you?

Jo

And BTW: She may very well try and intentionally pick a fight to prove you're only on a temporary campaign. DO NOT BITE!

Food really isn't going to play a part in tomorrow's activities. Besides, I was able to eat more today than I have since all this started.

My plan is to be pleasant. If I'm anything else it will just make me feel worse than I already do.

I'm off to hang out with a friend for a couple hours. I need to get out of the house.

I'm back to not being able to sleep. Last night I went out for a couple of drinks with friends. I felt okay for a few hours, but now I'm back where I was plus a bit of a hangover.

Bars seem to be full of single women my age. It's really depressing.

Without a doubt the drinks (full of sugar) kept you awake.

Why don't you forego the bars. They're not a good environment for someone in your vunerable situation. Its so cliche', yanno? Full of bad juju.

It was just something to do to get out of a big, quiet, empty house for a few hours.

Family activity went very well today. No LB behavior of any kind. I don't have any clue what her state of mind is.

I went over a year like that. Don't worry about it. It'll make you grow old (er).

Non-update:

WW still appears to not be in contact with OM. I don't know what's going on there, but I'm going to try to find out. Right now it looks like she is focusing on her job, as though that's the only thing about her life that is still intact. If she ends up getting fired (a strong possibility) she is going to be in a world of pain.

She left this morning on another trip. OM won't be where she's going. She is travelling constantly trying to do the work she hasn't been doing for the past six months to salvage her career. Even if she doesn't lose her job over the A she likely will over her performance.

Meanwhile I'm just going on with life.

Okay, so I know they're still in touch. They're just not spending as much time at it.

Need encouragement. Exposure has put a ton of pressure on them, but it looks like it hasn't been enough.

WW was pleasant and engaging all weekend. But according to friends she's still absolutely adamant about divorce. It also looks like the OM is planning to move to the area.

Oh well. If there is going to be any fallout from my letter to their company it will most likely happen today.

Make sure that her boss knows that you've verified contact recently again.

Prepare for the explosion from her. Here's the trick. Let her rant and rave and go ballistic and threaten you with all the horrible things that she will. Standard WS script all the way. Trust me.

Just sit there quietly...the louder she gets, the quieter you get. Echo back when she's said something that you truly feel is important. If she screams, you whisper. Take a LONG time to pause whenever she pauses to let you respond. Show her you're thinking about it. Do NOT respond with anger, or much emotion at all.

Batten down the hatches, let the storm blow over. Be adamant about the fact that you love her, and you're fighting for your marriage. Do NOT apologize for your actions!!!

Make it clear that this isn't YOUR fault, its hers. She's not getting in trouble for work because you contacted them...she's getting in trouble at work because she's behaving unprofessionally and unethically. THAT isn't your fault...its clearly hers and OM's.

She's going to be as angry as you can possibly imagine...even moreso. Just let it blow over for now.

Trust me, we've seen it all before. This will be NORMAL. And it's NOT the end of your marriage.

From what I gather (and my intelligence gathering is pretty good) her boss doesn't care one way or the other about the affair. He only cares that work will continue to get done. Letting him know that they're still communicating won't bring any additional pressure down.

Her future at her job is sketchy right now -- the affair could hasten her exit, but I think in two months it will be all over for her there anyway.

Meanwhile, the OM is moving quickly to sell his house and divorce. OMW is doing all she can to speed things along. According to others WW has no intention of ever attempting to reconcile, no matter what ultimately happens with OM.

WW is going out of her way to burn as many bridges as possible. If half the things she says about me were true I'd be an interesting character. I'd be as cold and emotionless as Mr. Spock, while at the same time as mercurial and tempermental as Attila the Hun. I'd be a shiftless, lazy, unemployed bum who somehow makes pretty decent money. I'd be a controlling, overbearing monster while at the same time ignoring her.

How have others who have reconciled dealt with this? After what she has done and said how could she ever get back with me without everyone she knows asking how she could go back to (according to what she's telling them) such an awful guy?

Well, I'm in a recovered marriage. My wife didn't go quite THAT ballistic in how she described me and our marriage, but she definitely 're-wrote history' big time about how it was all along.

Recovery is still possible. Remember, ALL "FWS's" have to go through something similar...ALL of them tried to justify their affair in some fashion while they were wayward. My wife had to admit to herself first, and THEN to others that things weren't as bad as she had thought they were when she was in the height of her emotional affair. She recognized (eventually) that she'd had some kind of blinders on that didn't allow her to see all the positives...in me, or in our marriage.

In our case, she didn't have to explain anything to anyone...once I made it clear that we were reconciling, that she'd made her choice to stay, my family and friends had to accept that. PERIOD. If they chose not to, then it was THEIR loss, not ours.

Just be prepared to help her understand her own mindset...ONCE RECOVERY STARTS. There's no use in trying to 'educate' a currently wayward spouse. There's nothing you can do to get the point across to someone who doesn't want to see it.

Did your wife tell everyone that she was getting divorced to be with the other guy, or did she agree to work on your marriage after exposure?

I guess I'm wrestling with the fact that my situation looks more and more like an "exit" affair. It could have been with anyone. The fact that it was with a married guy who is now abandoning his wife and baby just makes it all the more tragic.

Two families destroyed. Children who are going to be affected by this for the rest of their lives. It just sickens me.