Mel:

Trish is in the military. Do you want her to go AWOL to get her 15 hours a week?

Yes, her WH should leave/transfer/quit medical school. IN order to get to 15 hours a week.

Her WH should also keep his pants zipped. But he ain't doing that either.

I agree completly that M's need 15 hours a week recommended by Dr. Harley.

However, trish is in a position that does not allow here to exit tommorrow. She has to wait until her enlistment is over. Which could be in 1 month, or 48.

Can a M survive long distances? Yes, it can.

Can a M survive if the two people are living in the same house? Sometimes, No.

But beating someone up who proposes that a LD M can work, although it has inherent difficulties, is pointless.

And don't tell me that I'm telling YOU how to post. I'm not. Just give consideration to the circumstances of others who are not in the most perfect of circumstances for a M. Your first post to trisha said it all:



So, let others help. Like Jayne. Who is in that situation. And might be able to offer support that you can't.

IT is more difficult to fix. And I believe that most folks in a LD M would fix this as soon as possible. Trish, however needs her enlistment to end to get there....

FWTHIW.

LG

Thank you, LG, more than you know.

I've been thinking all day about posting here. Last time I checked before going to work, there weren't many replies after ... I am not exactly secure enough with myself and my own boundaries to relish exposing myself to what I perceive as DJs. But if she gets more replies due to my posting, well, maybe it's good for something.

I'm glad to see there have been some more responses.

Trisha, what I hear you saying is you have discovered your H is having an A, you have reason to believe it is ongoing; you are in the military and are not in a position to move immediately to where he is; he is in medical school, and is around the OW; you tried to give him an ultimatum to stay with you or to return to med school, and he chose to return; and in his FOO (family of origin) As are not unheard of and may be tolerated.

(Sorry for the recap; it's called mirroring, and is good to learn, esp. if you are going to Plan A him. My goal is to make sure I've heard you correctly, so that we can proceed from the reality of your sitch. Your goal, using it in talking to him, is to show that you hear his statements and accept that they are his opinions even if they are not your opinions.)

I hear that H is not willing to have no contact with OW. Also, he is not willing to do any MCing, and is discouraging you from moving to where he is.

I agree with what others have said, he is happy to have his cake and eat it too.

You say you want to work to save the marriage. Ok, here are my thoughts; these things are not easy but you are not in an easy sitch. I am saying them in love. I'm not the wisest or most experienced, but this is coming from what I've learned here.

You ARE going through this. You cannot deny it, it is happening. You can either go through it using as many of the tools here on MB as you possibly can, or you can go through it without the benefit of those tools. I am glad to see you are still here and are trying Plan A.

Your M may not survive. Ms don't always survive As even when they are not LD. I still think you will benefit from learning to apply the MB principles.

Some people are here who have been kicked out by their spouse, or who have been left by their spouse. Those people receive advice and support here or on different boards, even though they are not living with their spouse. You can read those other threads and other boards, and glean a lot of good advice.

There are other discussions where the emphasis is on learning to apply the principles, to be the best YOU that you can be (I'm trying to not hear the military ad in my head!), and to learn boundaries and only accept responsibility for changing yourself.

You cannot force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. But you can work on eliminating DJs, SDs, and AOs. For me, AOs were easy, just because they are the easiest to recognize. SDs are harder. DJs are the hardest of all IMHO. They can be really tricky.

You say you have no influence if he doesn't take your calls. Actually, you have no influence anyway. If he chooses to have an A, you cannot stop him. you cannot argue him into being faithful, you cannot plead or beg or sweet-talk him into it. Only he can choose his actions, and only he is responsible for his actions.

I know, you probably meant, if he won't talk to you how can you implement Plan A or do anything to improve the sitch. I understand. I'm just trying to piont out how tricky it can be, learning boundaries.

He may view your phone calls as SDs, for example. There's a technique called the 180, you may not be ready for it yet but keep it in mind.

And the comment, "Doesn't he know this is killing me?" I don't know, could that be considered a DJ? One thing about DJs, they are bad even if you just think them! Yeah, I know, I didn't believe that at first either. But DJs empty your own Love Bank also, and fill you with resentment. You want to come through this as healthy, happy and mature as you can be, and maybe save the M in the process. Resentment is counterproductive.

So, eliminate the LBs. A true Plan A then involves meeting ENs but that's hard to do LD. It's more important to eliminate the LBs first anyway. When is his next 2 to 3 week visit? It would be good if you have a stable Plan A going by then.

Here are a couple of articles to read if you haven't already:

Overview of Plan A and Plan B:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

A letter from a BW whose WH is unwilling:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5032c_qa.html

A letter from a BH whose WW has left him:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5012b_qa.html

So, I suggest not mentioning the OW to him or asking where he's been or trying to make him feel guilty. That suggestion is based on Dr. Harley's answer to the letter in that last link. You must decide for yourself though.

That doesn't mean be a doormat. Be strong, not needy. Be a person he could fall in love with, not one he wants to run from. Take care of yourself. Establish boundaries.

Whew! This is probably too long. I better stop now.

Hold the phone here, people, don't shoot the messenger. It is not "beating her up" to tell her the truth. I am not telling her she has to do anything. I am telling her that the reality is that this is hopeless as long as they don't live together. I am sorry I can't change reality, but I refuse to give her false hope where I know there is none.

It is ludicrous to imply that telling someone the truth is "beating them up." If I tell her that playing in the road is likely to get her run over, is that "beating her up?" How silly is that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Telling her otherwise might make you feel good, but it is irresponsible.........and dishonest, and not fair to her. You can see with your own eyes what living apart has brought. If you know of a way to change that reality, by all means tell her. I won't lie to her and tell her I know of a way to alter reality, though. I don't. You must be smarter than me, so have at it.

Perhaps instead of helping her ACCEPT the failing status quo, you might be of better aide if you helped her find solutions to remedy the CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM! [living apart] <-----that is her best hope and I don't see you doing that.

insanity: doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result.

Jayne, you do understand there is a major difference, don't you? A spouse who has just moved out is still getting his needs met by his spouse in some manner. This serves as much needed leverage in Plan A. While they are usually minor needs, the WS is still getting his needs met by the BS. In the case of a couple who has lived apart for months or years, this is not the case; they are completely detached and accustomed to living apart. There is a great difference in the LEVEL of detachment. Even with a newly seperated couple, we know that any seperation greatly increases the risk of divorce and the first order of business is move back in together.

I understand and agree with the value of some of the advice you are giving, such as avoiding lovebusters, etc, however, moving back together has to be the main emphasis in order to make this work. 180 degree would be a disaster, though, and is viewed as the counter to Plan A by Dr. Harley. the 180 is a form of detachment and would only aggravate her problem.

Trisha, I apologize for talking over you, however, I would implore you to find ways to CHANGE THE STATUS QUO if you want to save your marriage. I know what the usual outcome will be if you don't. I wish I could paint a rosier picture for you, but I don't think giving folks false hope is a kindness. And i promise you, Dr. Harley would not either as I have heard him address this very situation numerous times on his radio show. But the rate of divorce and adultery in military families is EPIDEMIC, as you have learned the hard way. I would be looking for ways for change your living situation, if I were you. That is your BEST HOPE.

Thank you Jayne241 and MelodyLane for your replies. I know this will be extremely difficult for me to undertake and I pray that he will come home until we can go back together. If not I will do the best I can from here. I find though that the exposure part is hard for me because his Father is the person who he listens to the most and my WH told him that he was a grown man and makes his own choices. I think that if I try to expose further it will push him away more.

Do you mind if I ask how long you have been married?

Also, have you completely stopped sending him money?

Believer, I have been married for seven and a half years. When he went back he went back broke and I haven't sent him any money since.

Well, that is a fairly long time for your age. I think I would continue making an effort. Affairs usually end, so you will just have to hang in there, and make your life as nice as possible.

I'm sure you will be hearing from your husband, and then you need to do a great Plan A.

My concern is the cultural part. I have 3 roommates from Mexico who are all happily married. They are close to their wives and kids, but when far away consider cheating quite normal.

I have a question. If while on plan A he doesn't call me, should I call him? Or would I be acting too needy?

What do you usually do? Does he initiate most of the calls, or is it sometimes him and sometimes you? If it is common for you to call him, I would keep doing that - but make sure you commit NO LBs AT ALL.

Don't ask about OW. Don't make him feel guilty. NO SDs and NO DJs.

Make sure you are in a good place emotionally before you call.

If he has an answering machine, leave the best Plan A message you can, then hang up and wait for him to call, or until the next night if that is what you usually do. Don't keep calling him every few minutes to see if he'll pick up.

I was supposed to have a telephone movie "date" with my WH Friday night, but I got "stood up". Is it fair to ask what happened or do I just not really mention it? I did try calling him and he wasn't home. And I know he knew, because we had talked about it Thursday night. Would it be wrong to tell him that if we weren't going to do it he should have at least called to let me know?

He will expect you to ask. Try throwing him off and not asking. I know you are probably anxious but if you can play it cool, it may make him wonder.

Ex:

WS: Sorry I didn't make it Friday.

BS: Yea.... oh well. No biggie.

WS: Uh....what?

BS: Yea, no biggie.

WS: Oh.... want to go out on Saturday?

BS: Hm... let me get back to you. When do you need to know?

WS: Oh....by Saturday morning?

BS: Ok.


Btw, got plans with a friend or 2? Hm..... don't appear anxious. Be cool.

L.

Thanks Orchid, But knowing my WH, he won't even mention it. I will play it cool though. It sucks because I am moving tomorrow and I didn't go to two different parties of co-workers because we had a "date." I won't tell him that though. Since he stood me up, should I wait for him to call me or should I call him tonight like nothing happened?

You should go do something useful like cleaning the toilets. He should have called, but waywards never think of anyone but themselves. So he is behaving just like they all do.

Start going out with your friends and put him on the back burner. Let him start wondering.

I agree with what Orchid and believer said.

That's what I meant by 180, maybe I used the term incorrectly. You want to not do anything that to him will appear needy, clingy, demanding... and you want to appear confident, secure within yourself, happy, friendly, desireable.

Do not ask. Really. I know, really I know, how hard that is. And wait for him to call you.

Let us know how it goes.

Believer- since I am leaving my house Sunday to go to my new base (woo hoo, a whole 2.5 hours away), I really should be cleaning the house. Also I wish I had been more social so I would have more friends, but that is about to change at my next base.

Jayne241- It is so difficult. I bet he won't call for a while. Well scratch that, I just emailed the OW's sister, I will probably hear from him soon. LOL.

Well, for now I am going to do a little retail therapy at Bath and Bodyworks. Last weekend of their big sale. I can't wait to come home and see if the OW or her sister emailed me back! I'll let you know.

Kudos on the exposure to OW's sister. And it's good you are going to get a new start at your new base and be more social.

I forget, do you have your own family's support?

I thought by separating I could help my marriage and now reading these posts I realize it was a terrible mistake, I thought being only an hour drive away we would continue but after two months my love of 22 yrs sees someone else. I left because of his drinking but should have found another way-I never dreamed he would turn to someone else, the good thing out of it since the affair, he has quit drinking for 2 yrs and we reconciled, I just have trouble forgetting what he did and know that is what I have to do.

Janye241, I more or less have their support, even though is is leaning more towards them telling me to just leave him. But they want me to be happy and support me trying to save the M.

I also just emailed all of the OW's best friends. Bet I'll be in trouble soon! Oh well.