Eph525,

After reviewing your newly revised PBL, I have these comments:

You added
This is EXCELLENT!!! These are good, loving memories that you have shared with her that have a likelihood of evoking fond feelings for her (especially if she is sort of a Feeler type). VERY GOOD ADDITION!!!

Your next paragraph is:

Just a quick thought...are these things that YOU want or things that she has expressed in the past are things that SHE wants in a lover? My impression is that right now she has closed her heart and is unwilling to do these things with you--so hearing a list of things that YOU want in a wife may affect her in a negative way--not a romantic way. OTOH, if she told you that she wants to be able to snuggle on the couch, or walk hand-in-hand on the beach with someone and at the time you ignored it and didn't realize the impact of what she was saying...THEN I WOULD LEAVE IT IN. If it's just a long list of what you wish you could do with the woman who is your wife, then I would edit it so that it's a list of what she has always longed for in a partner (if you know what that is).

Your next paragraph says:

I think my previous comment might also apply here. Are these things that she has expressed to you are things that SHE wants? Has she said to you how much she misses being able to be a mom full-time because she has to split kid-time with you? Then leave it in...otherwise, try to think back to the things she has told you are the things SHE wants and SHE finds valuable. I know it's hard, because she's in a wayward state of mind right now, and she's not exactly open to doing romantic things WITH YOU. But Eph525, the point of adding these is to show her that you are now willing to be the lover that SHE wants.

Does that make sense?

(For example, let's say that she used to sort of mention to you, "I wish you'd just cuddle up with me and watch girly-movies" and in the past you pretty much blew her off. NOW you are writing to her to express that you 'get it' and you understand those kinds of emotional connections are important to maintain!)

Soooo...if I were you, I would go through those two paragraphs and change the focus from what YOU want in a wife, to what SHE wants in a husband. Does she WANT to settle down and be a mommy? Does she want walk on the beach? And also bear in mind that you're not feeding into wayward illusion here. You are not going to be her "fantasy lover" and should not hold yourself to a standard that is imaginary. Rather, it's almost like a confession--you didn't hear her in the past, how much she needed those things and now you not only hear what she mentioned in the past are traits that she admires, but you can see why it's important to meet her needs.


FINALLY...and in conclusion....I want to point out that the intermediary position is for ALL communication (unless there's blood or fire.) The way you have written it sounds like, "When you're ready to end your A, email our friends Bob and Sue." In reality it should say, "If you have something to say to me, contact Bob and Sue." Can you see the difference?? Your way, she could say, "Eph525, I'm not ready to leave OM so called you instead of calling Bob or Sue. Who do you think you are telling me I can not call you? Blah-blah-blah-blame-blame-blame-babble-babble-babble." In that instance, you will not achieve the peace of Plan B because the wound will constantly be picked!! To achieve maximum Plan B effectiveness, you MUST HAVE an intermediary to edit out the WS's barbs and arrows and just pass along facts. If you give her the option to email you, trust me when I say that she will abuse that option and start using emails then to get her "point anger in Eph's direction" fix. Just like for the WS--No Contact means NO CONTACT, while in Plan B.

Your sis in Christ,





CJ

OK, my internet connection was down Monday night and most of today (Tuesday) - even this techno geek could not fix it. Thanks so much Charter for your great service that you drop when it freaking rains hard.

so.....
to answer your questions CJ:

Mostly those are things she expressed a desire for and we did do to some extent.

hold and rock to sleep - she loved it, always wanted it
snuggle - also loved it
hold hands and walk - loved it
meets my most important needs - OK, I want this. BUT she always wanted me to express my needs, to talk with her about "anything and everything." Maybe I'll reword it.


You know, now that I think about this she has NOT expressed this to me at all except to say she wants the kids with her.

I'll work to reword those two paragraphs. Point also taken on the intermediary.

Thanks so much.

Draft 3.

My Dearest B,

What I am writing to you now is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

I love you with all my heart despite everything that has happened before and during our marriage. To this day I remain emotionally and physically attracted to you. I still believe that God has a plan for us, that he gave us DS6 and DD3 for reason, and that He expects us to fulfill that.

You are my first love, my only love. I remember all the first things I experienced with you – our first date, our first kiss, our first road trip, our first overnight, our first touch, our first time.

I want so much for things to be different. I want to give you so much more that you are willing to accept and receive so much more than you are willing to give. Now that I more fully understand my own needs I want to express them to you so that you are able to meet them. I want you to be the one I hold and rock to sleep at night. I want you to be the one I snuggle with on the couch to watch a movie or talk about anything and everything. I want you to be the one whose hand I hold as we stroll through the neighborhood or walk along the beach. I want to be best friends as we vowed to each other.

I want you to be the one who is a partner with me raising our children together in our home. I don’t want to settle for less than 100% of my time with our kids. I want you to be the one who sits beside me holding hands as we watch our son and daughter one day graduate from high school and college and even get married. I want our marriage to be a model of what they should seek in their own marriage.

I accept my responsibility in creating an environment that helped make your affairs possible. I never fully understood or embraced how to meet your most important emotional needs. Even though I went to counseling both alone and together with you I was often not there for the right reasons and so I never allowed myself grow and change as I should have. I have already apologized to you for this and I desperately hope that one day you will forgive me and allow us to create a new future together and allow me to show you that I can be everything you want.

During these last 8 months I have learned so much about myself and about what I need to do to make our marriage better. I still have more steps to take, but I have attempted to demonstrate to you what I have learned in the limited time we have had together. Most importantly, I have learned that there is no one and nothing as important to me as you are. I hope that you have seen these changes in me and that you will see the ones yet to come.

Whatever problems we had I am confident that we can overcome them together and take the necessary steps to create a new loving marriage in which we are both fulfilled. I have a vision for our marriage that I have not had before and I often dream of what that will be like. I want to hold on to all the memories we have made, both good and bad, and begin to make new and better ones.

I have tried so hard in this extremely difficult time of physical and emotional separation from you to maintain some kind of connection with you and I thank you for the few times you let me in; however nearly every time I see you or talk to you I feel the tremendous excruciating pain from the wound that has been inflicted in me and I can no longer endure that. Knowing that you have continued to give yourself to someone else absolutely shreds my heart; yet I still have hope that one day we can build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate.

I want you in my life more than anything, but I want all of you to myself alone. Sharing you is just too painful and is not an option. I want to be your husband, just like I promised you in front of God and our families. I cannot lower my standard and just be your friend. Therefore I’m asking you to please understand that I need to protect my feelings for you so that if you decide to give our marriage a new chance, I might still have some love left for you and might want to try again. The only way I can do this is to end all contact with you until your affair has ended and you will agree to NC for life with OM. I say this with tears in my eyes because this is not what I want, but knowing that you would rather be with someone else everyday is destroying the love I have for you.

Please do not call me, send e-mails, or leave voice messages unless our kids are in a dire emergency. All communications should go through our friends XXXX at XXXX and they will communicate with me.

<details of exchanging the kids goes here>

I know the narrow path that we must walk in order to rebuild our marriage and I hope that you will decide to walk it with me.

I want you in my life more than anything, in a exclusive loving marriage. Sharing you is just too painful and is not an option. I am your husband. I am unable to lower my standards and just be your friend. I also believe it to be very unhealthy for me to model acceptance of your infidilety to our children. I am certain that through God everything is possible; and, if reconciliation can ever be accomplished I believe strongly it is what is ultimately the best outcome for you, me and especially our children. In accordance with what may someday be God's will, it is with a heavy heart that I must indicate today that I need to protect what feelings remain for you so that if you should decide to give our marriage and family another chance, I may actually still have some love left for you and remain willing to try again myself. The only way I can protect my feelings for you is to limit all contact with you until your affair has ended and you agree to NC for life with OM.

Therefore, until such day that you are readily willing to meet these simple conditions and undertake rebuilding our family, please do not call me, send e-mails, text me, and/or leave voice messages unless with regards to emergencies involving our children. I have arranged for all our communications to go through our mutual friends XXXX at XXXX.

<details of exchanging the kids goes here>

I know the narrow path that we must walk in order to rebuild our marriage and I hope that someday soon you will decide to walk it with me.

With love and regret,

Eph



*I don't usually comment on Plan B letters. Never had to do one and don't like revising and drafting them. The lawyer in me also gets really nervous about how these things will play out later when the WS attorney gets his/her hands on it to paint you as vindictive, controlling, manipulative, possessive...whatever. That's one reason I chimed in because I didn't like the line "I want you to myself, alone". It sounded very possessive.

I also wish you could find a way to be more about saving the family and the doing this "in the best interests of the kids". I tried to find a way to get that into your words but this letter is long enough and I don't want to write this for you. Regretfully, as you've already rewritten it severally time, I, too, would like it to be somehow much shorter (however, I see how hard that is just trying to rewrite that one paragraph).

MrW, Atty. at Law, and Eph525--

I understand what MrW is saying about how the Plan B Letter could be perceived by the WS and has the potential to be used in the D as your attempt to be controlling. Thus, even though you've re-written it a couple times, I suggest re-reading it with that PARTICULAR issue foremost in your mind.

In my personal opinion, I do not see Eph525 (or most any BS who goes into Plan B) as attempting to control the WS at all...but rather I see their own attempt to regain control of their own life and get the WS drama out of their life. Thus, as I re-read Eph's letter, I see him saying that he want to honor the legal contract he made at marriage; I see him mentioning specific things that his WW said she had wanted in a partner; and then I see him stating what his personal boundary is. He is not trying to control the WW at all. She has the option to choose him unequivocally or to choose someone else--but if she chooses someone else, she can no longer has the benefits of HIS friendship, etc. Finally, he make reasonable arrangements for communicating non-emergency messages...and for Emergencies regarding the children only.

Eph--for you I would say that it's a fine line between including those romantic things and the Plan B Line being longish. However, I trust you and you know your WW WAY better than we do, and if she has a romantic side, I'd let it be a little long.

JMHO!!



--CJ

schoolbus - if you see this I would appreciate some of your insight as you were instrumental in helping craft another letter of mine.

Thanks.

OK, I made a few more mods, rewording, etc. Even got in a statement about the kid's best interests. I think leaving in the romantic memories and such will be worth it and outweighs the fact it is long (it's actually a little over 1 page long in Arial 10pt font)

So here is draft 4:

My Dearest B,

What I am writing to you now is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

I love you with all my heart despite everything that has happened before and during our marriage. To this day I remain emotionally and physically attracted to you. I still believe that God brought us together and has a plan for us, that he gave us DS6 and DD3 for a reason, and that He expects us to fulfill that.

You are my first love, my only love. I remember all the first things we experienced together – our first date, our first kiss, our first road trip, our first overnight, our first touch, our first time.

I want so much for things to be different. I want to give you so much more that you are willing to accept and to receive so much more than you are willing to give. Now that I more fully understand my own needs I want to express them to you so that you are able to meet them. I want you to be the one I hold and rock to sleep at night. I want you to be the one I snuggle with on the couch to watch a movie or talk about anything and everything. I want you to be the one whose hand I hold as we stroll through the neighborhood or walk along the beach. I want to be best friends as we vowed to each other.

I want and need you to be the one who is a partner with me raising our children together in our home. They especially need this and should not have to settle for less than 100% of either of us. I want you to be the one who sits beside me and whose hand I hold as we watch our son and daughter one day graduate from high school and college and even get married. I want our marriage to be a model of what they should seek in their own marriage.

I accept my responsibility in creating an environment that helped make your affairs possible. I never fully understood or embraced how to meet your most important emotional needs. Even though I went to counseling both alone and together with you I was often not there for the right reasons and so I never allowed myself grow and change as I should have. I have already apologized to you for this and I desperately hope that one day you will forgive me and allow me to show you that I can be everything you want and need.

During these last 8 months I have learned so much about myself and about what I need to do to make our marriage better. I still have more steps to take, but I have attempted to demonstrate to you what I have learned in the limited time we have had together. Most importantly, I have learned that there is no one and nothing as important to me as you are. I hope that you have seen these changes in me and that you will see the ones yet to come.

Whatever problems we had I am confident that we can overcome them together and take the necessary steps to create a new loving marriage in which we are both fulfilled. I have a vision for our marriage that I have not had before and I often dream of what that will be like. I want to hold on to all the memories we have made, both good and bad, and begin to make new and better ones.

I have tried so hard in this extremely difficult time of physical and emotional separation from you to maintain some kind of connection with you and I thank you for the few times you let me in; however nearly every time I see you or talk to you I feel the tremendous excruciating pain from the wound that has been inflicted in me from your lies and I can no longer endure that. Knowing that you have continued to give yourself to someone else absolutely shreds my heart; yet I still hold on to the hope that one day we can build a new marriage in which everything we do makes us both happy and there will never again be a reason for us to separate.

I want more than anything to have you in my life more in an exclusive and loving marriage. Sharing you is just too painful and is not an option. I am your husband, just like I promised you in front of God and our families, and I cannot lower my standards and just be your friend. I also will not model acceptance of you infidelity to our children – I don’t believe that is in their best interests. Therefore I’m asking you to please understand that I need to protect my feelings for you so that if you decide to give our marriage a new chance, I might still have some love left for you and might want to try again. The only way I can do this is to end all contact with you until your affair has ended and you will agree to NC for life with OM. I say this with tears in my eyes because this is not what I want, but knowing that you would rather be with someone else everyday is destroying the love I have for you.

Until such time as you are willing to meet these conditions, please do not call me, send e-mails, or leave voice messages unless there is an emergency regarding our children. I have arranged for all our communications to go through our friends L&R at XXXX.

Also, for the remainder of the summer I will drop the kids off at K’s house around 8:15am and you can pick them up at your convenience afterwards. Likewise, please drop the kids off at her house again at 5:15pm so I can pick them up around 5:30pm. Once school begins for both DS6 and DD3 we will modify this as necessary.

I know the narrow path that we must walk in order to rebuild our marriage and I hope that someday soon you will decide to walk it with me.

With love and regrets,
Eph525

Wow. Truly. WOW! I think that is a very good Plan B letter. If I "change names to protect the innocent" could I use it as one of my sample Plan B Letters in my thread?

Seriously. It is REALLY GOOD. You're ready.




--CJ

Wow, thanks for the compliment CJ. I have no problem with you using it - if someone else can benefit from it that's great.

OK, so I have other details to post about now.

I have a meeting with my attorney today to discuss next steps. I cannot remember if I already mentioned this - there has been absolutely no movement whatsoever from my WW or her attorney since our mediation session back on Apr 27.

A few weeks ago I sent my attorney a counter offer to review, but told him to just sit on it because as long as she was not doing anything I was not gonna do anything either. We will just tighten it up so it's ready when we need it.

Also, he mentioned that he and the GAL had a brief discussion. The GAL is more than slightly PO'ed about also not hearing anything from WW or her attorney. I've been the only one in contact with her regarding DS6's surgery and recovery. Also made a direct comment about WW scheduling the surgery without discussing it with me. It's not looking good for WW right now.

Then Tuesday WW called be about DS6 not having his blanket. I told her I was out to eat and it would be late before I could get it there. She then asked me to bring one of his other blankets to keep at her place - I said sure whatever.

Well when I picked the kids up yesterday he suddenly had some new blanket that WW had acquired and did not want him to bring home. And then last night he was quite upset that he could not have it and wanted me to ask WW if he could bring it home.

I sent her this message this morning (I did not see her because I took the kids directly to VBS)


In recent weeks she as acquired another bird, an above ground pool, and more toys for the kids. All the while I am spending money on doctor's bills, debts, clothes for the kids, etc. One thing I am asking my attorney about is a possible reduction in CS. It's ridiculous that I am supporting two households and I am going into more debt myself. Sheesh.

OK, more later.

I totally agree with this!!! It is awesome!!! Made me cry! If she's not moved by it, something's wrong with her!!! (well, at least more than we already know) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Eph,

A few comments on your update.


Beautiful!! This is EXACTLY how to frame this. She probably didnt even recognize this. But the more you say it, the more it becomes FACT, even in her mind. It is HER house and OUR home. The kids are then shown as being a part of the family home but the place your wife is at is only HER place. It may not sound like a big deal...but words mean things. Both in court and in real life! Keep this up.

Also, keep documenting everything, including all of the junk she is buying. When it comes out in court, the judge just may decide that you pay too much!

The fact she has had no contact with the GAL does not bode well for her. Keep up your end of it, as you will continue to show that you are the better parent.

So...when does Plan B commence?

Just a quick update.

Met with my lawyer - explained about plan B. He recommended against it.

I'll give more details later tonight - I have a ton of things to do here at work now.

All lawyers recommend against it! Most dont understand the concept. The ones that do, just dont want the added hassle of dealing with false allegations by opposing counsel. The ones that say that you are being unreasonable and not working with her for the sake of the kids.

This is why Mr. W talked about having the kid stuff all over your PBL.

Again, as has been said before...you do NOT have to get along with her. You do NOT even have to have a conversation with her. You MUST communicate with her concerning the kids. And that communication can come in any form as long as it is reasonable.

Your attorney is advising what, legally, is the best and easiest route. But what he is not taking into consideration is your mental and emotional health. and if you are not able to get away from the situation, then you will most likely damage your legal situation in far worse ways!

You are being advised by Dr. Harley (Steve) and his world-renowned principles. You are not going off half-cocked and trying to punish your wife.

So, write back what the attorney said. And we'll see. But remember...your attorney works for you, not the other way around! And he only has one view of the situation...and one goal. You have a larger picture.

As is always the case, the buck stops at you.

OK, so I gave my attorney this short summary of my plans:

The counselor I am working with is one of the most renown when it comes to dealing with infidelity. So far I have been trying to do my best to show my WW that our marriage is worth fighting for and saving. Unfortunately due to her continued lying and such, I have reached a point where the interactions with her are too painful and I need to protect what little love I have left. His recommendation is to protect what is left and completely eliminate all direct interactions with her. I will have an intermediary for communications and child exchanges.

My attorney said that bringing intermediaries into the picture could be perceived as me not wanting to communicate with her (even though I stressed this was not the case), especially if we are going for joint custody of the kids. he did thank me for sharing with him what my plans were rather than just acting on them.

He suggested that sole custody might be an option based on her behaviors and he would "feel out" the GAL when he next speaks with her to see what she had to say. I have made no statements regarding custody to her, not were any made by me in mediation so it would be easy to come back with this as an option.

I asked him if he wanted any of my documentation on our interactions showing more of her lies. He said he did not think that was necessary at this time.

I agree, he is advising what is best legally and I think that needs to be considered here. But you make a great point about my mental and emotional state damaging my legal position as well. Maybe I should let him read my plan B letter?

I think I'll get an appt with SH and discuss this and get his take as well.

I was really hoping it would not be this big of an issue.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone between plan A and plan B - not wanting to do plan A and not able to do plan B (see above).

Then I get up this morning and the water main line is gushing water into the basement, all over boxes of clothes and other stuff that is packed up. I ran out to the meter and shut it off but who knows how long it has been going on.

Then I get the kids to WW's place and ask her if I can can come in and wash my hands - she says it's OK. Then as I am leaving she asks about getting some of the kid's games to play since she has none and it's raining outside.

She first asked if she could go to the house and get them and I said no that I would bring a few over. Then as I am driving down the road to work I am asking myself "Why did I agree to that?" She bought all that other stuff why can't she go buy them some games.

Now I have this inner battle going on - keep my agreement or call her back and say sorry these are the consequences for your decisions. The whole back-and-forth decision dynamic.

Then while I am talking to God during the drive I am saying "Lord, I don't have the physical or emotional strength right now to do this. Spiritually I know that I need to rely on you and you will give me enough strength, but that is so hard right now. The song "Bring The Rain" by MercyMe captures what I know needs to be done:

Bring me joy, bring me peace
Bring the chance to be free
Bring me anything that brings You glory
And I know there'll be days
When this life brings me pain
But if that's what it takes to praise You
Jesus, bring the rain

It's easy to say that, but when the storm of life is raging around you it's so hard to do it.

I could really use some advice for how to convince my attorney regarding plan B. I basically want to say to him "This is what I am doing, I need you to figure out how to defend it." After all, that is his job.

Amen to that Eph!

Our sitchs are running parallel right now, aren't they?

My A advised me not to put the 'no contact' with Drac in a letter. She said I could just 'do it' but not to put it in writing for the same reasons your A gave

I have an appt w/Steve Thurs am and will be talking to him about all of this.

I will let you know what he says,,,as I am pretty certain it will be applicable to you as well.

My friend, you havg in there. Use whatever tools necessary to get thru to the next day.

I sometimes just 'pretend' that whatever HORRIBLE thing Drac just did (i.e. The lake/ho trip) never happened.

I lock it away in a box for right now.

Problem is, that box is starting to overflow,,,thus Plan B time is here.

That means in whatever form I have to do it in,, in writing or now, I will not continue in the current way and allow Drac to kill that last bit of love I have for him.

My new 'theme song' is Bonnie Raitt I will not be broken!

God bless!

HI, E...just checking in...seeing how things are going...I'm sorry to hear that you are in termoil with the whole sitch...

I'm keeping up but not much to say since I haven't been in your spot! Just know I'm thinking about you!

Eph,

I didn't read where your lawyer said, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO THIS! I read him telling you to be cautious. As long as you have been clear and concise on EXACTLY how WW can send messages to you, then I'd say you are not refusing to communicate. Make sure that she knows exactly who to call, email, etc (giving emails, phone numbers), and under what circumstances. For instance, if her car ran out of gas, don't call you, HOWEVER, if the children are with her, she can get a message to you ASAP via text message.

With children, Plan B is not always as easy as it is without. You must leave open the lines of communication regarding emergencies, but you must DEFINE what an emergency is (don't assume your definition is the same as hers).

(((((Eph)))))--I'm so sorry that you are going through this pain. In my opinion, you should follow through with Plan B; don't sit in limbo, in pain, when you could reduce that pain and learn to rise above much of this squallor of limbo land.

AGAIN, just be sure that she is able to contact you via intermediary regarding the children, their schedules, visitation changes, school stuff, babysitters, heck, even what they are eating. Child care must continue, and you must be available for this, via intermediary. Otherwise, you do not have to talk to her at all, legally or otherwise.

Eph -

You are a very strong man, and a wonderful example of a husband and father. I know it is tough, but give yourself a lot of credit for staying on the road you have chosen. I would listen carefully to your attorney. You can plan for Plan B, and get everything ready, but I would be very careful. I think you have a good chance to get custody of your kids. And THAT will wake her up - knowing that her choices have caused it.

I follow your thread religiously. LOL Both ways - I pray for you and pay attention. My friend said his lawyer said the same. He called SH and asked him if he was prepared to come to court to defend Plan B and MB in general (his WW wife found vernacular crude reference to herself by posters and brought that into legal discussion), SH said yes. Obviously you have to be able to meet his charges for such, but he didn't hesitate in his answer. My friend has not yet gone to court and now is trying to work through mediation. So that is all I can offer on that.

As far as following through on what you say. I think it shows you as an ethical man to take responsibility for your words, and if, in hindsight, They are not the words you might have used, then having to deal with the consequences may help you to be more thoughtful in future contact.

Oh and my friend is Plan Bing silently (no letter) on all but child welfare. It has certainly made a difference to his WW, she is NOT happy. He made that decision, after talking to SH about the court thing.

SP