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<bump> to the top of the MB forums
<nudge> to "Get 'er done!!"
Your silence has been deafening. How's it going? If you don't want to post here in public, you know where to reach me, right? And my offer to intermediary still stands if you need it too.
--Mama Bee
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I just spent the weekend having fun. No stress of kids. Hung out with friends (I'm the battleship and skipbo king).
Spent today getting the notebook in order. I have a monthly calendar sheet until the end of the year showing visitation weekends, Dr. visits that I know of, DD's party, and a trip I have planned with the kids. I have a sheet for details on doctor visits. I have a sheet for medications. I have a sheet for toys taken from home to her house ane vice versa. I have a sheet where she is to write in expenses that I will have to reimburse her for (tomorrow I will take her name off of the joint account).
I talked with my intermediaries tonight - they wanted to be clearer on what they need to do. I told them that the notebook would handle most communications about the kids, but anything else that she or I need to communicate to one another would be through them; however I don't plan to have much to say at all to her. I told them this was not something I cooked up on my own, that this was the plan recommend my counselor Dr. H. They might be hedging, so I haqve to nail this down ASAP tomorrow or find someone else.
A friend at church introduced me to the Sunday School teacher of the class that she and WW attend at church. She said she was so glad to finally meet me and that she had been praying for our situation. I just said that I appreciated that, that it was about all she could do. Thinking further, I wonder if she really knows what needs to be prayed about. I have am sure that any story that has been told by WW is twisted.
So I am exhausted and dreading tomorrow. I may stay home from work as I can;t see me being able to focus on anything but the impending "shot heard round the world" of plan B.
CJ - you have mail.
I am really hoping for some peace after speaking with SH tomorrow morning.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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More details on meeting the SS teacher. She had commented to my friend something like "Is he (me) as bad as she (WW) makes him out to be?"
Friend said - hang on let me go get him so you can meet him.
So like I said, I am sure whatever story WW is telling is twisted.
When I dropped the kids of this morning WW asked me what was wrong. I just waved her off and started walking to my car. She followed me out and asked again. I just told her it was nothing she really wanted to hear about, got in the car, and came home.
Just waiting to talk to SH now.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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Eph, just wanted to let you know that I'm here. Today may be the worst day, they get better and better, just hang in there.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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Thanks SL. Your story is an inspiration to me as well. I remember well your last false recovery. I wish you all the best going forward.
Will post some details of the SH call shortly.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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Eph,
Sorry I've been out of town. But I don't have much to add. I'm not a Plan B expert.
The "notebook" you are preparing I hope you have a back up copy. WW may throw it away and refuse to use it. You will need a copy of your hard work as evidence you desparately tried to "co-parent" the children using effective means of communication. Without a copy of the notebook WW can attempt to downplay it as inadequate and nothing more than a calender and some blank paper.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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The main thing SH and I discussed was the fact that the "cornerstone" has not been set - meaning that WW has not given any response to the original question of whether she believes the ideal scenario is that she be in love with the father of her children. He said that concept has to be set, otherwise everything else is sorta futile.
He recommended trying to set that one more time before going to plan B, but did say that I was getting good advice here.
Also gave some guidance on how to communicate plan B to my attorney and the GAL. I'll post up that e-mail a little later.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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Mr. W - thanks. I am appreciative of the legal mindset you bring to the table. I had not considered a backup notebook, but will do that.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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{{{EPH}}}
Just saying HI! Thinking about you!
Bugs
BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
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OK, here is the e-mail I am planning to send to my attorney: When you and I last spoke I mentioned to you that I was prepared follow the advice of my counselor and move into a period of no contact with my wife. You indicated that you did not think that was a wise idea, but I wanted to take another attempt to explain to you why I feel it is what I need to do.
The counselors I am working with (Dr. Willard F. Harley and his son Steve Harley) are some of the most renown when it comes to dealing with infidelity. So far I have been trying to do my best to show WW that our marriage is worth fighting for and saving. Unfortunately due to her continued lying and such, I have reached a point where the interactions with her are too painful.
(this is stuff SH said today)
I am becoming increasingly frustrated that our marriage is going in a direction that I don’t want. I am frustrated that she has unilaterally decided this direction for our family and I feel that our family is being misdirected. I am frustrated because I know that it does not need to be this way and that she can be happy in our marriage. And as we discussed, I am frustrated at her continued inability to co-parent with me and make decisions without consulting with me.
(some stuff from Mortarman in here)
His recommendation is to protect what love is left and completely eliminate all direct interactions with her. I have to take my mental and emotional health into consideration, and if I am not able to get away from the situation, then I will most likely damage my legal situation in far worse ways. I am not trying to manipulate her in any way; I am just trying to protect myself.
I have taken all necessary steps to ensure that we communicate as best as possible on issues regarding the kids. I have created a notebook for documenting important dates for the kids, expenses that she may need to be reimbursed for, items that are taken from the children’s home to her home, and medical details including doctor’s visits and medications. I will also keep copies of this information should something happen to it. Of course we can add any additional information as is necessary (ex. school related info). I have acquired a cell phone for the kids so they can communicate with me and not have to use WW’s cell phone. In life or death type emergencies she will be able to contact me directly; otherwise all communications should be directed to and filtered by an intermediary I have made arrangements with. Also until school starts the intermediaries will help facilitate the daily exchanges of the children.
I know you may not like this course of action, but I believe it is what is best for me and my children and so I ask you to defend this to the best of your ability. I also have documentation from another credible source that this is a necessary course of action and will share that with you if you like (thanks hopeandpray) thoughts and comments? Mr. W this is where you come in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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Upon further review, I feel like the letter to the GAL would pretty much be the same except for the intro and the closing.
Should I try to work in more statements about it being the kids kid's best interests?
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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This is not a "legal" take on it, but I don't think you quite have the right perception there, Eph, so let me see if I can reframe it for you.
By leaving the family and leaving the children, your WW has effectively become an acquaintance to you. Although you two are married on paper, since she is choosing to leave and choosing legal separation, she has the right to know about your life about as much as the mailman does. Yes, she does have the right to know about the kids, but so does their TEACHER, and you would never expect to hear some of the snide comments from the teacher that you regularly hear from your WW.
Therefore, you are not ending contact with you. You are ending her attempt to continue to control your life via hurtful phone calls and interactions. You are placing a healthy boundary around yourself to take back control of your own life and remove yourself from the drama and crisis of an affair. You are going to a place of autonomous peace.
While you are in Plan B, you have a way in place to civilly inform her of events in the children's lives and upcoming decisions: via the notebook, the intermediaries, and the lawyers. In life and death, she can call you directly. But otherwise, you are no longer going to be her puppet. That is healthy.
The way that you communicate it in your email, I can see why your attorney was against it. It sounds like you're cutting her out of your life, when in reality she is losing her place in your life as your confidante and counsel. You will no longer take advice from her or listen to her opinion because SHE CHOSE TO LEAVE YOU. Thus, if it was a civil thing to discuss with the mailman, you might discuss it with her. Does that make sense?
I think if you could somehow indicate that healthy boundary versus "cutting her out of your life" they would understand much better what you are trying to do and why.
I will review the email from a proof-reading point of view, but from a "content" point of view, that's what stands out to me. Also, I think it may be a DJ to say you know she can be happy in your marriage. I BELIEVE she could be if she chose to be...but it is entirely possible that she has some sort of mental illness or defect which results in her choosing what is not best for her!
Anyway, I'll review and get you more comments in the morning.
Your mama bee,
CJ
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CJ - thanks for the comments. Yeah, I can see that the framing of this is off. OK, I had an open door to talk to WW this morning and try to "set the cornerstone again." We talked about an issue concerning DS6 which led directly to this: Me: Is this what you want (being separated) or do you want the best? Do you believe the best is for us to all be together in a loving marriage. WW: I don't feel like that is possible. Me: This is not a feeling question, it's based on fact. Do you believe that is the best. WW: In a perfect world. Me: So why would you not want the best? WW: I tried for so long. Why didn't you want it? Me: Because I did not know what the best was. I do now and I want it. She tried to get me off on some tangents, but I brought it back to this: Me: Do you believe the best is going downtown with someone else to watch fireworks rather than with your family? WW: I could say the same thing for you. Me: I was there with our kids and family friends. WW: I was there with another family also. Me: No. Me: So what I hear you saying is you know what the best is but you don't want it? WW: I don't think I can be happy. Me: So it's not worth trying for? also she made some comment that I can't remember, but my reply was "You don't want to be with someone who stands up for his family?" To which she replied "I don't see it that way. I see you trying to take me out." I did not get and explanation for this because at this time the kids were getting unruly so I cut the conversation short and said we could talk later. Then when I got to work I sent her this e-mail: Since we both know what the best is, we should try to reach that. We should not cheat ourselves or our kids from having the best. Would you consider going to this with me so that we can see how we can reach the best? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi011_0710.htmlThere is a money back guarantee. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by checking it out. I’ll take care of all the expenses. No response yet. Maybe I can somehow finish this conversation with her before delivering the PBL.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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E - I think you did a great job. Good work staying calm. Not sure I can think that quickly on my feet. I pray that this will eat at her today and she'll at least be willing to give it a shot. If nothing else, it will get her a free trip to FL in Oct! Maybe the kids acted up just at the right time. You gave her a taste, but didn't go overboard. Something for her to think about! Do the kids ever ask about mommy & daddy being together? Keep your head up my friend. Remember that leg! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> HUGS!!
Me, BS 33 Him, WH 33 Kids, DS3 Married July 23, 1994 DDay-11/24/06 (day after T-giving)said he was unhappy & left 2/7/07 -mutual friend (co-worker of his) hinted if I thought he might be acting "improper" I might want to get it checked out. 2/14/07 hired PI to check out his A with coworker, someone I know! 2/23/07 Solid proof of A from PI Sta: sep, primary custody, he has visitation 1st Med: 9/5/07 2nd Med: 12/12/07 1/8/07, found out violated RO with DS & OW DV-Day....2/5/08 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Wow, Eph, good job on sticking to the point. I had a very similar conversation with WH, prior to MB, but it wasn't nearly as structured. I think you did well to point out that she was not answering your question when you posed this Me: Is this what you want (being separated) or do you want the best? Do you believe the best is for us to all be together in a loving marriage.
WW: I don't feel like that is possible.
Me: This is not a feeling question, it's based on fact. Do you believe that is the best.
WW: In a perfect world.
Me: So why would you not want the best? It was always so hard to keep a conversation on track when PWC was wayward. He would do the same things, like saying 'in a perfect world', or 'i don't feel that is possible--anymore'. I think reaching out like this is a very good thing to do before going dark. You have made it clear that you want the BEST, and will do what it takes to get the best.
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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HI,E! First, thanks for checking on me while I was away...
I didn't read eveerything but what I did read, I think that you did an excellent job and I look forward to hearing the outcome...
I'm around, going to head to bed in a little while..."STILL" have to get teh kids down! LMAO
Keep up the good work!
A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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She sent me this TM last night at almost 10:30: U busy? If not u wanna talk? I was not able to acknowledge the message until much later, but replied that I did not get the message until late and asked if we could talk tonight. No response yet. Did not really expect her to want to talk so this could be interesting.
Divorced on 3/25/2008 but I have primary legal and physical custody of my 2 kids. Plan A Thread Plan B ThreadEphesians 5:25 - Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
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WOW!!! That's great. Hopefully it's good news. It's a first step!
HUGS my friend!!!
Me, BS 33 Him, WH 33 Kids, DS3 Married July 23, 1994 DDay-11/24/06 (day after T-giving)said he was unhappy & left 2/7/07 -mutual friend (co-worker of his) hinted if I thought he might be acting "improper" I might want to get it checked out. 2/14/07 hired PI to check out his A with coworker, someone I know! 2/23/07 Solid proof of A from PI Sta: sep, primary custody, he has visitation 1st Med: 9/5/07 2nd Med: 12/12/07 1/8/07, found out violated RO with DS & OW DV-Day....2/5/08 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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Eph,
WOW! You did MAH-VE-LOUS! Really, really well!
Stick to it!
WW does not have a Plan, YOU DO! You know what the message needs to be, you know the path that can bring you both the BEST!
Calm, cool, collected, Mah-ve-lous Fernando!
BS (me)
ExWS -Drac
DD 9
DSS 15
D Day 11/06
Divorced 10/01/07
"You Can't Fix Stupid" - My Mom
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I back up what K and Bugs said! Don't get your hopes up...expect the worst...
Maintain yourself like you have been doing and you will be fine!
best wishes to you and yours!
A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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