I'll keep it short... My wife of 10 years changed careers and started a working for this new company 3 years ago. This company is a young tech sector upstart, formed by a few young 30-year old guys fresh from their MBA programs. The company is very successful and it's work environment is very relaxed and 'loose'. When she started, the workforce was fairly small, about 40 employees, but is now pushing 100. It is predominately male with maybe a dozen or so women.

The after-hours atmosphere with this group of co-workers is very party-oriented. They have a lot of money and extravagence for after-hours play knows no bounds. We are in Southern California and to put it simply - it is the proverbial stereotype of Orange County - lots of booze, lots of party drugs, lots of casual sex. In short, the big shots are continuing their frat life, all of them married themselves with families. The frequency of work get-togethers has exponentially grown, to point now where it is at least one week night, usually two every week and nearly every other weekend. it can be local or out-of-town, is always coed, and almost never involves spouses, family, etc.

As I type, my wife is out-of-town on the annual company retreat all weekend. I know what happens on these outings - I've heard the stories and I've been witness to it on the few times I've attended them. I've casually asked her about her doings, always getting the "I love you" and "there are no other boys" treatment. I believe her - to a point. What I mean by that is that A) my wife only used to drink occasionally and never to the point of getting thrown out of bars (which happened on another company shin-dig a few weeks ago), B) never felt the need to always be doing something extravagant, or else she's bored, and C) never would have packed her sexiest panties and outfits (including a dress that a male co-worker bought for her last month) for an out of town extravaganza that didn't involve me.

I just feel hurt. I don't want to think she would purposely have a quick, casual night with another man. But I don't know what's happening when she's liquored up, dancing in a night club, surrounded by all of her SINGLE female best friends from work - who are known to engage in this activity.

I just need to know if I'm out of bounds on this or if I should really be concerned. I do trust her, but her behavior has also changed dramatically. When were together, it's OK. I do feel like I got a charity screw Thursday night before she left Friday. And lately when we do have sex, it's full of complaints about my five o'clock shadow, the music, my smell - I don't smell - it just hasn't been fun - and certainly not intimate. Need your thoughts....

I should mention that I know absolutely that my wife has been faithful to me for the first eight years of our marriage. It hasn't been until about the last year or so that these outings have really intensified and her demeanor has changed. That's where the wondering in my mind started.

Well, she has given you some clues - five o clock shadow, the music and your smell. I'm sure you don't smell, but do you shave and bathe beforehand? I would start paying extra attention to those things.

That being said, I think she needs to quit going to the work parties. If that is not possible, she needs to quit her job. What is happening now is a recipe for disaster.

By the way, welcome.

My personal hygiene hasn't changed at all in the last decade. No, I don't always bathe beforehand - spontanaity has never been a problem with us until now it seems.

WARNING WARNING WILL ROBINSON!!!

This IS a recipe for disaster as Believer said. In my former life, I worked for an IT company dominated by the twentyish male hotshots, and yes, the partying, drinking etc goes on and on. I was the old fart (late 40's) so I always went back to my room because I don't drink or party, and because I was way too old for them (they ended up canning me because I didn't fit the mold). But believe me, this is trouble in the making. Many times, they stayed out all night for 3 and 4 nights in a row.

Sorry to scare you, but you've already seen clues of this. Either go with her on these trips or make her quit!!

Start shaving and bathing beforehand.

What would happen if she didn't attend the parties?

I think you are missing the point. What I'm saying is that these things like five o'clock shadows, music choice, etc. have not, for the last last ten years, changed. What I'm saying is that it seems like she's making excuses not to want too much intimacy. I'm confused because I don't know what message you are giving me - try to conform to her "new" ways or that I'm the one who has screwed this all up by not attending to my personal hygiene enough on the one night every two weeks that we have sex.

If it helps describe my dilemma, there are photos from our camera, that she religiously protects, that show her, I presume in nightclubs, kissing other goatee'd and otherwise "scruffy" men on the cheeks. When I casually asked about these, I was told that her and 'the girls' think it's funny to take "incriminating photos".

I appreciate your input, but are you saying that all of this is a result of my percieved inattention of my personal hygiene? If so, I am now more confused than I was before. I only mentioned that to give you an idea of what our intimate life is. I may be unsure of just about every other thing about us, but I can assure you that this seems to be merely an excuse for her. I just can't determine if it's because of natural reasons that come up after 10 years of marriage when both spouses work - or if it's because of some outside influence that satisfies her. Such as knowing that within a few days, there will be men galore, while she's out-of-town, who will be more fun than this.

P74:

Sorry you have to be here.

It ain't about the Hygiene.

When someone needs a justification for thier behavior, meaning, being with thier other Man, then every little percieved flaw that you have is highlighted.

You have 5 o'clock shadow? "Your scruffy!" Because SHE doesn't really want to be there.

She will screw OM, who might look, smell and dress like a homeless person, Because SHE wants to BE THERE.

Once someone starts down the road of infidelity, suddenly, certain aspects of thier lives become VERY PRIVATE and SECRET.

The CAMERA. Her CELL PHONE, her Email account.

Have you seen the change in her?

IF you were to call her on her cell phone right now, would she answer? Or would she tell you later, "we were in a meeting!" "meetings" that go late into the night?

She doesn't really want to talk to you about what goes on at these things, does she?

Your W, probably in the past would have told you all about her day. Even when she first started at this new company, she would talk about what happened in a free and open manner. Your WW? She just says: "you wouldn't understand" and "it's just stuff" and "it's private company business!"

The real question is: WHat do you do next?

You need to find out WHO she is seeing. It could be several differnet men (or women...)

Review all your discussions with her from the past threee years. Think hard about them. WHen she was talking about the people in the office, who did she describe as a mentor, or a great boss, or real out-going, or understanding, early on, and then stopped talking about? Somewhere along the line, it easier never to mention to OM, as it makes the lies easier to cover. I would look closely at the man who bought her a dress....

That will give you a list of suspects.

Then you need to download those pictures and start comparing to the list of suspects, and get access to the cell phone records. See who she is calling... Go to www.intellius.com to cross reference the phone numbers to a name.

IF it is a compnay cell phone, that makes if difficult. However, unless she takes her cell phone into the shower, (which WW DO!) you can look at her call history that way, outgoing and incoming. Also check the total hours used. WW will clear off the incriminating phone calls, but the total hours used will tell you how many hours are missing.

Also, DO NOT CONFRONT with circumstancial evidence. Your sources of info will dry up. Build your info over the next three weeks.

This is the weekend, things will be slow around here. Hang around, others will chime in, and can give you snooping advice to really collect the evidence you need.

And, last but not least, say she is NOT involved with someone? We can help with that too. She is in a sitch that has reduced her personal boundaries and may lead her to doing something she may regret.

If you confirm NO Affair, then thats great. Now you are just fighting to restore a stronger M.

Otherwise, there is a world of pain coming your way.

LG

You know what your instincts are telling you. Sounds like she's looking for excuses to complain about you.

Also, hey, I work in a male-dominated field, I've had a lot of close friendships with coworkers (since before H and I married, none were close enough to present temptation) and I've NEVER heard of a guy buying a dress for a female colleague!

Maybe read up on Plan A?

You get my point - thank you. No she doesn't answer the phone. She just got this Blackberry joke of a phone just so 'she get's work emails all the time'. I called twice last night, four times tonight. Last night I got a simple 'love you' text in between attempted calls, tonight I got some text crap about 'sorry, she didn't have her phone all night and that she loves me". No phone calls. She knows I worked today, got off at 6, and would be home by 6:30. I started calling at 9:30 and didn't get a text until midnight. Kind of ridiculous for a marriage, but that's just me.

P74,

Your M is at risk, great risk.

The only reasons I can think for taking sexy undies are:
- she wants to feel sexy & attractive
- for the titillation somebody else
Neither are good news. Also, receiving dresses from male work colleagues is wholly inappropriate (to put a thick gloss on it).

The changes in your W are not as a result of your personal hygiene regime, it sounds to me that she is beginning to disconnect from your M: she developing negative feelings about aspects of you that didn't bother her before (or she even found endearing); as LG said your every flaw is being amplified. This can (& does) happen in the absence of an A, but it's a clear indication that your M is under threat nevertheless.

The bad news is that the behaviours you describe are consistent with someone who is having an affair, or is intent on having an affair. The good news is you've found this place which can give you the best chance of saving your M (affair or no affair).

Read up on plan A & give this thread a bump tomo, traffic is light round here at the w/e.

Good luck.

b.p.m.

Same thing happened to me. Could always get him to answer when he was at work, but after - never did. Excuses were same - didn't have cell phone, ran over cell phone, battery died, and all that crap. I knew better because his phone is also a company phone and he is always supposed to be on call.

Now, you can probably look at those cell phone records I think. If she is in the shower or asleep, I bet that you could go to the web site of the service, key in her phone number and sign up. I think that they send a password to the phone within 30 seconds. You could then run to the phone, get the password and then erase the text message. Ethical? Probably not but I bet it would work. I also think that you could probably look at several months worth of phone records. It's just what I think - you could try it.....

One other thing. Either practice on the phone while she is asleep or go get another pnone just like it and learn how to use it. I was just thinking that if you didn't do that first, you might get too nervous trying to figure out where to find inbox, delete and all of those things. You would probably want to know how to do all of that stuff first so that it only took you a flat 10 seconds to get the password, erase it, delete it from delete folder etc. It's just a thought...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Her phone is on my wireless plan, so I do have access to the phone records. Problem is that she calls so many people at so many different numbers, many of them work clients, that deciphering what's what is impossible.

If it was an affair, it would be 300 calls to the same number. It may be that she is interested in partying with all the men.

She really needs to change jobs. Doesn't sound like her job is good for the marriage. But she will probably get furious and refuse, saying you are trying to control her.

Do the two of you have children together?

No children. You are right, I wouldn't expect asking her to leave her job would go over well. It would mean losing all of her best friends and her cherished lifestyle. I just simply do not know what to do or think.

I think you are going to have to let her know calmly that her work style is bothering you. It is not appropriate for a married woman to go out drinking with the boys, accept dresses as presents, get drunk and get kicked out of bars, have incriminating photos (I don't care how amusing her workmates find them), and not acting like a married woman.

I think if this keeps up, she WILL have an affair if she hasn't already.

So here's a bit of an update. She called me @ noon today to say she would be leaving about 3 to avoid traffic. I cleaned the house, washed the bedding, made dinner - I've been anticipating her return home all weekend. I have missed her and haven't slept because of what's been going on in my mind. She leaves a message for me from some random number @ 6:30, about the time I was expecting her home, that she doesn't think she will be home tonight because the others don't want to go home tonight and because she didn't drive, she is stuck.

So I call the random cell number two minutes later and some older lady answers. After a few minutes of trying to explain who I am and that my wife just called from her phone, she gives it to my wife. She's drunk, been hanging out by the pool all day. The girls don't want to go home tonight though they do all have to work tomorrow. My wife's phone is in her suitcase, which was stored in some room when they checked out of the hotel this morning. She doesn't know where they are staying tonight.

I'm upset, devestated because this is so much outside her character, and totally pissed off. I understand that if they are drunk because they've been drinking by the pool all day, they shouldn't drive home tonight. But the point is that my wife would have never put herself in that situation in the past. She would of stayed sober if everyone else was drinking knowing that they had to drive home. In the heat of the moment, I ask her if she wants to keep this marriage, she says yes. I ask her if there are or have been other men - no. I then tell her that what she needs to do tonight while spending another night doing whatever it is she does away from home is to simply put herself in my shoes. What if the roles were reversed.

That was it. Haven't heard from her since. I am so totally broken. I love her. I want this to work. And just as I'm getting some support from you guys and gals and starting to feel confident that things will work out, this happens. First time in 10 years of marriage, 13 years together that I've felt this hopeless and upset.

I am so sorry for what you are going through right now. I know how you feel...

Hire a PI and get to the bottom of who she's hanging with and what she's doing at these parties.

The truth will help you decide what to do next.