I disagree with this..but what does it matter?

Sis says that she is a MB Dropout...

I agree that she can go back into PLAN B..but it seems that she has chosen PLAN D..

To walk out into the light or some such thing that she said...

Here's the quote:

wouldn't stop.

remember the physiological impact of a relationship... adulterous or not...is the same as eating chocolate.... the same chemicals are released. This is a weakness in character....not a physical addiction like crack or coke that requires medical intervention. Nope, many people simply decide to stop an affair and do so without so much as a blink...others go through a process of hanging on and letting go...many of us do that at the end of a relationship... it hurts like helll and there is a period of withdrawal..but it is not an addiction, it is likened to an addiction for clarity sake.
But make no mistake about it...if a WS wants to stop, they can CHOOSE to do so.

SIS, what I"m proud of is the fact that you did what you needed to do for YOU...

I agree that the breaking apart of yet another family IS ashame but it's not YOUR fault...

I still hear him blaming you...

That's sad...he still hasn't learned anything!

Mimi,

Plan B, according to Harley's methodology, is also preparing for divorce. You realize that, yes?

Jo

I agree with MEDC. I don't think OW has "won" anything, nor do I think that she has won "easily." LilSis put up a ****** of a fight for more than a year, because let's be honest...the A was going on before she found the emails.

LilSis, I was not a perfect Plan B moment, but I can see how this was a moment that YOU, as a human being, needed. For a long time now, I think you have clung to the illusion that WH is just not aware that what he's doing is "so wrong" and now you know that he knows perfectly well that what he's doing is wrong -AND- he is choosing to do it anyway.

Was your M saved today? Nope. It was not. Was LILSIS saved today? Yes, she was. The wonderful, amazing, loving woman that God created named LilSis is that woman once again, and she's no longer living with an illusion. She is looking reality SQUARELY in the face! And from this point, you can make decisions based not on hopes and wishes...but on what you purpose in your heart to do!

Remember a long time ago I told you that I could not tell you when you were done, but that you would "just know"? It sounds so ... almost mystical...doesn't it? But now you know what I mean. You're done. And yeah, it's sad. But it's sad because WH would not choose to stop doing what he KNOWS is wrong. It's not sad because of you. You were magnificent! An absolute MB success story! A bronze bust in the Killer Bee Hall of Fame--right next to me and christner.

((((((((((((((((((((((LilSis)))))))))))))))))))))) I'm sad for you and yet it's sort of a relief, isn't it? You WILL be okay!! FOR REAL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your mama bee,



CJ

I disagree VEHEMENTLY with what you are saying about THE ADDICTION.

My H was ADDICTED just like a CRACK ADDICT..and the HARLEYS see it this way as well.

This was the most important point that STEVE HARLEY almost insisted that I get...and THANK GOD I believed him and followed his advice.

Maybe not true of Sis' H and others but this was most certainly true of my H..

Before his affair, he was a man of integrity, high morals and good character, highly respected by many, many people, a very successful business man and civic leader...HE IS ONCE AGAIN...

When he was WAYWARD, he was the lowest of lows...almost nothing like himself until his WITHDRAWAL from HER DRUG...

PLAN B is the LAST RESORT to gain MARITAL RECOVERY.

He says that with PLAN B there is a HIGH RISK for DIVORCE..but the goal of MBers is to prevent DIVORCE from happening.

Sis, AJ was not able to be a great deal of help in your question about wayward thinking and kids during an A, but the essence of what he said was that he did think about them, as in the effects this would have on them, but it wasn't enough by itself.

He said it is very hard for him not to be judgmental about WS's who have left their families, and has to remind himself that what he did was just as bad. So he doesn't understand, not really. I guess that's a good thing though - I'd be very worried if he could make any sense out of it.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, cuz that's up to you, but no matter what you do or decide, please have faith that God is still working very hard in this situation, both to bring healing to you, and to save your WH from the evil trap he has willingly entered. When you see from eternity what was going on all this time, you will be amazed by our Father's patience, and tender, careful, constant labor.

*I* feel good for you, LilSis.

This is my point of view. I acknowledge that..but in my mind EVIL HAS WON OUT..and THE FIGHT was not over...

The Harleys recommend 2 years of PLAN B...

I'm fully aware that everyone can't do that or that everyone does not choose to do that...

But I do think we need to suppport the PLANS.

Mimi, if it helps you to see your H that way, I ma not in a position to argue having never met him. I think it makes the process a lot easier for some people when they see their WS as helpless victims of an addiction rather than people that lack integrity (which BTW, I believe even Lilsis H could recover based on his behaviors).
You and I look at things differently... and the Harley's position on this is that some people are addicted... others are not. I have dealt with crack addicts Mimi and I have dealt with waywards too...in my opinion, there is a world of difference.
And if your H was a man of character and morals before his affair Mimi, he never would have had the affair in the first place. People of integrity and character do not put the crack pipe to their mouth....they say, no. Bill Clinton was a success by any standard, civic leader, business etc... didn't afford him integrity when he was soiling a dress in the oval office did it???

I proclaim myself to be a MB dropout too!

mimi! I don't feel good about it either. I didn't destroy my family, WH did. I DO NOT feel good about it. Make no mistake.

But at some point *I* have to make a choice. Do I choose to live for now, for today and tomorrow, or choose to stall out...here...wishing and hoping for something that has a very tiny chance of ever occurring?

WH is a conflict avoider. He would sit in Plan B, letting the D work itself through the system, not budging, because to do anything at all would create conflict. I could have chosen to ride that train right along with him, and never have looked him in the eye.

This probably sounds stupid, but it's like this...if he's going to stab me in the heart, then he can at least look me in the eye while he's doing it. It would be much easier for him to stab me in the back and never have to see my face. In doing that, I'm not true to myself and who I've become, and I'm allowing him to skulk away unimpeded.

I had the courage to stand up and show him who I am. He, in turn, showed me who he is.

The circumstances of every individual on this board are different. The MO of the WS may be similar, but no two are exacly alike. mimi, you broke Plan B; you had SF during Plan B if I remember correctly. You had false recoveries. He was living with OW, being a live-in dad.

My WH is living with his parents, not truly experiencing his new life. He has never been a cake-eater. He checked out and bailed out. Within days of being caught, he chose to leave, and he has not looked back. It has been a year.

No two situations are the same.

RT may have "won," but please do not imply that she won because of something that *I* did. I have spent a year getting PAST that point of blaming myself. These are WH's choices. Not mine. I cannot control him. I cannot stop divorce proceedings that he initiated. I cannot make him stop seeing RT. There are things that are outside of my control.

I could control my actions today, yes. Whatever conversation we had today would not change anything for WH. He's still deeply entrenched, and I didn't expect anything to change for him. I wanted things to change for ME. I wanted to see for myself who this person is...and I saw a stranger.

I don't know what it means yet...I need to think on it more. But for me to look at him, talk to him, hold him accountable...without anger, without the sobbing mess, without desperation...I needed to do that for me. I showed him strength, sadness, regret. I needed to do this to reclaim myself. I didn't want to be his victim anymore.

I needed to stand up and be counted.

Sis,
I am proud of you, for whatever it's worth. You gave a heck of a fight and you are doing what you need to do in order to move on. The OW in this case has won what? A man who cheats and lies, avoids taking responsibility for his actions and moves back into his parents home??? Sounds like a boobie prize to me. The real winner here is YOU. You can hold your head high and know in your heart you did all you could. Only you can say when you've had ENOUGH of this roller coaster ride, and I respect your choice. God is still in control and no matter what happens, its still all in His hands. You will be fine, keep your head up.

Happy Belated Birthday, Neak. I've been thinking of you.


I do believe this, now more than I have in the past. I have been praying for healing, and really, really challenging God. Really putting things out there. I do see him working in me; some of the really difficult conversatons I have had with God have been followed by some real insight. And when I look at how far I have come...

Also, please know...it is a comfort to know that God is also working in WH. Thank you for reminding me of that time and time again...it truly is a comfort, and I tend to forget about the persistence. It is painful to see WH in this way, so twisted.

LilSis:

Before we get into a six page debate about if you did the right thing or not....

YOU did something that you needed to do.

Did your Plan B go down in flames?

No.

Did you state you were going to call your Lawyer and tell him/her to go after WH with both barrels and end this thing?

No.

YOU did something you needed to do.

MEDC and MIMI can debate all day about how "men of chracter and conviction" don't have affairs.

It's a pointless argument. On this thread. Because your H did and still is having an A.

The reason you married this guy is because at the time you married him, and for years afterward, he was seemingly, a "man of character and conviction".

HE can be again.

Some may never be able to look at him the same again. WH is already paying that price now.

But that is up to the WH to change that. HE can make the choice. "Cold Turkey" or the slow walk away.

Mimi's H returned. I returned. No longer a pure as the driven snow, no. But enough for Mimi and Flamingo. And those are the two that count the most.

MB is about saving Marriages. This one may still be saved.

But your personal growth, and your ability to understand what happened in your M? AMAZING.

One day, your H may benefit from that.

But it is still his choice.

So, you asked him to come back.

You now know that he's still Wayward.

AND until he decides to change that, nothing you do really matters.

I hope you sleep well, after the meeting, the poker and the crying.

Beause it was something you needed to do.

But your H is still the one with something to do.

((((LilSIS)))) (((2 boys)))

LG

PS:

You will NEVER be a MB Dropout. You fought an excellent Plan A, and so far have done an amazing Plan B.

There is still much to learn, Padwan.

Stick around. We still love ya!

LG

So. . . I'm with LG. I've read the posts a couple of times now (well, except for the ones that predictably urge you to give up) and all I see is that you did something not Plan B. You responded to an urge to DO SOMETHING, and I certainly don't blame you. You did something that you needed to do--you took a look over the fence and learned a few things.

But what does it mean? How does it really make things different?

You confirmed that he is fogged and wayward. Nothing you can do about that. You already know that you can't stop the divorce, but will you embrace it? You showed him (I think) that reconciliation is still possible, and I don't see that that's a bad thing, because he probably didn't know that it was.

Hang in there, Sis.

Sis,

I continued Plan B for more reasons than to save my marriage, especially after the false recovery this year. I had my Eureka moment, too. It finally clicked that I would not only be OKAY but I would be happy again, really happy. I became unafraid of the whole mess.

Now, that being said, I would just keep up the Plan B, especially after contact like you just had. You did really well in your talk, keeping your composure as much as possible. Now, let him chew on that and let go. Letting go does not mean giving up, it just means that you have given up the control illusion. Some people will then say LET GOD. So do that.

Sis, you are going to be just fine. PWC did the LONG walk away from his last affair, but the walking away wasn't his challenge, it was the walking toward home. I think fear rules so many people. Some of what PWC fears may be true right now. He's not jumping up and down for joy at being home, because he has to face himself here, and that is tough business.

I got used to being in Plan B, being without my H, and PWC got used to living from place to place, friend to friend, affair to affair. You can get used to the worst of circumstances. Without some outside force, many of us will stay there, hence staying in a bad marriage. Your WH may be staying put because he had no external force pushing him. You gave him a nudge, now just leave him be.

LG is so dead on with this. I love PWC, and I held on for him, and he will never be the same, but he will be PWC again, so I hold on and hold out for that.
((((((Sis)))))

Sis, you said:



.... and who wants a stranger as a husband?

on the other hand .... I think you were trying to meet a different emotional need of your own .... intimate conversation ... you go to open up to WH, tell him how you feel deep inside ... there is a release there .... we shall see

sdguy said:


I am thinking, this means LilSis has demonstrated to WH that her Plan B is penetrable

If LilSis can cross over and give WH a piece of her mind, WH has equal rights to do the same

again, we shall see

if intimate conversation is a combustable material between them .... it could start a fire (good or bad) ... we shall see

I wasn't going to say this outright ... but I decided I left it too vague ... and likely NO ONE would understand my true meaning

so here goes !

female is penetrable = intimate ready

be it emotional or physical penetrability

Breaking Plan B to have a deep & meaningful intimate conversation

is like standing emotionally naked

it is verbal sex