Lexx:

I think there's a good chance that WH was BSing her...

Asking him to call Steve may seem like she's being CONTROLLING which is exactly how he wants to cast her at this point..you saw what happened with Bugs.."You see, she really hasn't changed"...a WH is an EVIL, CONNIVING, LYING BEAST..mine was....

I had the phase when I ENABLED my H's affair..he ended up getting even closer to HER..the problem is that it RELIEVES THE PAIN OF PLAN B....

The WS needs to reach bottom in order to become motivated to end the A...

It has to be his OWN PERSONAL DECISION at this point..I think...

I hope I'm DEAD WRONG about this...

you saw what happened with Bugs.."You see, she really hasn't changed".
____________

didn't i read that Bugs's H came around after talking to Dr.Harley?
that he realized how low he had sunk?

I'm not saying the Steve Harley call was not valuable for Bugs' H..but that was his reaction the next day after the call..then he hooked back up with the HO BIGTIME... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mimi:

WH threw out a distraction bone.....

But did not promise any change in himself in that convo with LilSis.

Only what LilSis could do for herself, or for HIM.

Let WH "Do Something" now.

I hope you are "DEAD WRONG" as well.

There is much traveling in WH to the bottom still.

LG

But Mimi -- thats the beauty -- she doesn't have to ask!
She merely states: I've reconsidered. I think your offer to talk with someone will help. Here are the 3 dates and times.

And you must agree that no one can reach a WS better than Steve Harley. Get WH to agree to 3 sessions with Steve.
Lilsis has 3 immediately after him to get Steve's assesment, and the Plan for Lilsis.

And other than setting up the calls, Sis stays in Plan B.

He made so many statements that show how conflicted he is.
I highlighted what I saw, because I am not just basing my opinion on his "offer."

Maybe he is not at the bottom point yet. But Steve's words and logic will haunt him. Lilsis can follow Steve's plan for her.

We haven't seen the ending to Bugs story yet.
or Lilsis's.

They are far from "over."

Lilsis -- its been a long time since you've had direction from the Harley's. Its time to revisit that, and take WH with you!

Yes, it's true that while in Plan B the BS should wait for the WS to approach them and offer to follow the terms of the Plan B letter.

But

If you hear nothing for a long time, Mortarman has used the analogy of a BS in Plan B occasionally raising his/her head out of the foxhole to see if the enemy (the WS) is ready to surrender yet. I think the Harleys allow for this, too, in the interest of "showing a WS the way back home and reminding them that there still might be one".

If they're obviously not ready to surrender, you just crouch right back down in that foxhole and stay there.

If they're waving a white flag, you can again offer the terms of surrender (Plan B letter) and see what they say.

If they're lying there broken and helpless and won't even try to help themselves - well, why not call in the medics?

Yes, we all know that WS are addicts. But some - and remember, very few WS know anything about MB - may well feel that they have ruined things so badly that the BS could never forgive them and there is no chance of ever going back. For most people, cheating = your spouse will instantly hate you and divorce you and there is NO other alternative.

We know better here, but it's easy for us to forget that most people have never heard of Marriage Builders and just automatically assume their marriages are over if/when they cheat and get caught.

Combine that with a man who is passive and conflict-avoiding in the extreme to begin with, and I think that's what we have here - a WS who feels he has f*cked things up beyond all recognition, who assumes he could never be forgiven for it, and who is so further paralyzed by his own natural passivity that he will never do anything but follow the natural expected course for any man who gets caught cheating (a divorce.)

I say call in the medics. If you still want this man, LilSis, call in the medics (the Harleys).
Mulan

I see what you're thinking now, LEXX..

I think it's a real long shot....

Sadly, he may have been CRACKING some and she may have stopped that process...

I think this could PROLONG things...

Back into the DARKNESS again would be best..

We know better here, but it's easy for us to forget that most people have never heard of Marriage Builders and just automatically assume their marriages are over if/when they cheat and get caught.
_______________

true.
how many of us swore we would be gone if our spouses EVER cheated on us??
no ifs ands or buts about it.

LilSis should talk to SH herself before taking any further action.

The problem with Sis stepping back into her husband's life means that she is RE-creating the triangle that supports the affair.

As long as Sis is present, RT and WH are driven closer - comisseration, blame and lots of juicy private dissections of LilSis...

And so RT is no longer LoveBusting...she is back to partnering WH.

Just advising her to reach out to her husband WITHOUT a professional Plan is BAD IDEA and could backfire in many ways.

I am not saying that he will suddenly break free of RT and move home. And I think Lilsis should stay in Plan B though most of this.

But let Steve Harley's logic work on him. WH has OFFERED to share his thoughts on how they got here. Steve will hit that one out of the park. WH won't be able to stop himself from considering his words and logic.

Lilsis can get her instructions from Steve on what to do in-between sessions and at the end.

Its a $1200 investment in this family. Well worth it.

Sadly, he may have been CRACKING some and she may have stopped that process...

I think this could PROLONG things...

_________________

did i miss something?
were there signs that he might be cracking.......seemed to me like he was quite contently going along w/ his life w/ no attemps to contact LS.

di i miss the signs that he was cracking?

and why do you think LS may have PROLONGED things?

This is the VERY problem with breaking Plan B in the first place. It gives you OPTIONS. It bogs you down trying to interpret EVERYTHING said. You try to get CLOSURE but you open yourself up to speculation. You've stirred an otherwise calm pot.

Let WH call his own medics...if he, in fact, has hit an emotional bottom and feels the individual need for them.

This isn't a situation where the WS called the plan B'ing BS and said..."let's talk"....only to discover, WS is hoping to rebuild a "friendship" and is not prepared YET to surrender. Lil'Sis sought him out....mistakenly.

Carry on in Plan B lil sis. I happen to believe "giving up" is what you are supposed to do, with absolution, when you actually enter Plan B. I think "giving up" is sensed by the WS and has an effect. It is a healthy reaction to the reality. If and when the least little thing (or really big thing) is crumbling and the WS can see the affair isn't working...they MAY jump ship for fear they may already be too late to save the marriage. But that's beside the point. God will do what God is going to do. What effect lil sis's actions or non-actions will have on WH from here on out ARE irrelevant.

Peace...Lil' Sis'. You've fought a good fight. As much as my wife and I want to see your situation turn, I firmly believe Plan B and quiet is where you see the quickest results for your marriage and you personally. You don't have to do anything except maybe get a manicure, pedicure, change your hair color, gets some new duds....continue enjoying YOUR LIFE.

Mr. Wondering

Nia:

I was talking about Lexx' take of the conversation with him yesterday...

Not a big crack..teeny..

--------------------

oh...now i understand.....so easy to get things mixed up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Mr. W;

I don't think WH knows how to call the medics.
That is why a session or two with Steve Harley could prove priceless. He can give WH the path home.
Non-confrontationally and non-threateningly.

I speak as a FWW who counseled with Steve. His words and logic are impossible to refute -- even as a completely fogged out wayward. His logic will haunt WH onto a path of recovery. Even if the WH thinks he's simply giving Steve the lowdown on why its all impossible...

Steve Harley's perspective is something a betrayed spouse can never adequetely convey to a WS.

WH OFFERED to talk to someone.
He showed a glimpse of remorse and acknowledged wrong-doing.
Build on that.

Lilsis should get her plan from Steve. Schedule as many sessions for WH as possible. Then sit back in Plan B and let Steve do his thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see where LS is doing this.

(((((LilSis)))))

I hate to see what happens to your thread sometimes.

What's done is done. If you needed to have this talk with WH so that you may let go a little more, than I think it is a good thing. No one will ever know whether it prolonged the A or not. If it gave you some peace so that you can continue with your life, I think that is good. It's so hard to put into words sometimes how we get to a spot within ourselves where we just find a place of quiet and are ok for a while. Each one of us has our own timeline and our own way of finding it. You were hanging on to the perfect outcome of the Plans so desparately, I was afraid that if the perfect outcome didn't come, you would have a D-day-like breakdown. I'm a bit relieved to see you letting go a little (not giving up) and preparing for whatever may be next.

I don't think it is about you being "right", necessarily. For me, if WH would have admitted that he knew it was wrong and continued to do it anyway, it would give me an understanding of where he was coming from. And with that, I can find my own way to deal with the next phases of my life. By WH not admitting that it is wrong....I continue to want to show him that is....and that he should know it is wrong because he always believed so prior to his A. My heart thinks if I can remind him that is what he thought, then he'll have to know what he is doing is wrong. And then he'll stop. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Your WH admits it is wrong, but can't or won't do what it takes to make this situation right. You probably now view him differently and can make more informed decisions for your own life.

I believe in you, LilSis. Plan B is good for you. You peeked, got an answer, now tuck back out of sight and do what you have to do to find a peaceful for you and your boys.

Fox

Lil Sis and ALL those in Plan B should be advised to stand by their Plan B letter words. Say what they mean and mean what they say.

Lil Sis's letter did not request scraps. It did not say "no contact until you can acknowledge wrong-doing and offer a glimpse of remorse". It DID say...end your affair and be willing to recommit to the marriage.

If WH isn't in enough pain yet to figure out on his own how to reach out for help...then he needs to slide down further...ON HIS OWN.

Your advice, were she to take it and TRY to get WH to speak with STEVE, will only end up draining Lil Sis's remaining love bank further. Plan A is OVER. It's over because HER lovebank is nearing empty and needs to be preserved. This "CHANCE" while the affair continues...just ain't worth a cotton pickin' penny out of lil sis's overdrawn lovebank.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Of course, call Steve and get his input. Always GREAT advice.

I assume you were directing this at me:


I wasn't suggesting she TRY to get WH to speak to WH(??) (did you mean Steve Harley?) WH freely offered it. So there is no drain on her lovebank to get him to do something he is unwilling to do.

Nor am I suggesting she go back to Plan A.

I am suggesting she:

Run this by Steve.
Then schedule a few sessions for WH.
Let Steve's logic penetrate WH's fog.
Stay protected in Plan B.
Get Steve's feedback and plan after he has spoken to WH.
Follow Steve's plan.