Sis, don't go here. You are a great Mother to your boys! A GREAT MOTHER!!

Sis, you will not get a word of criticism from me.

{{{{LilSis}}}}

Hang on girl!

medc, answered on Lem's thread.

I second Chrisner... you are a great mom.

We all make mistakes as parents.

But Sis will not grow personally unless she takes a look at the pattern that she is demonstrating.

BR, I read the thread and perhaps I am missing the part where you recognize the harm this type of exposure causes to your children but made a conscious decision to stay for certain reasons.
Considering how refelctive you are, I am sure that you have looked at the studies and stats about children that grow up in a home with an active alcoholic. I was just wondering how you came to the decision that remaining in a household with an active alcoholic was in your childrens best interests.
If I missed the explanation, I apologize for not seeing it.

MEDC

and now I will apologize for the threadjack.

psst..medc, i answered (not satisfactorily I am sure!) you on the other thread!

LG said:



I agree, it is a small thing compared to adultery / lies / betrayal

however

she may doom the effectiveness of her plan B

once she breaks plan B to have her say ... she has shown that her plan B "rules" are flexible ... and WH can bend them as well

she broke Plan B to lovebust
to prove to herself that WH is a louse

the entire purpose of Plan A prior to Plan B is to leave remaining love units with the WS before taking the self-protection step of Plan B

this was a love bank withdrawl

((lilsis))

I have been thinking about you since you posted this thread.
I have no comment about what you did. I just know how you feel.

I, too, am a doer-the solver of problems. I face things head on and go through them. My XH's A and his response to it was something I had no control over. I had to learn to just be still and let God be God. God completely remolded my faith through it all. The only choice I had in all of it was to trust Him.

My XH, much like yours, ran away from the mess he created.
After his EA (eventually PA) was exposed and he lost his ministry job, he went to 4 MC sessions and "said" what he thought the MC wanted him to hear but was unwilling to "do" anything. Then, he quit and moved out. He completely cut himself off from any of his friends and family-anyone who knew him "before". He retreated to the point that he didn't even contact his kids. Even after I was diagnosed with cancer-he didn't contact them.

It's so hard when someone we knew so intimately becomes a stranger and then changes our lives in devastating ways without even seeming to have remorse. My XH's explanation for why he wanted a D was "I'm done."

That was it.

It was after the renewed PA was exposed I was able to say to him: "I would appreciate some day if you could explain to me why you divorced me. Because when you were "done" being married, you ended my marriage." The look on his face was complete surprise. It was as if he didn't even realize that his choice to end his marriage had THAT consequence in my life.

Everyone's journey is different and we are all human, so we make mistakes. Thank God that His grace can cover our humanness.

Although it might not seem like it, one day you will realize that you are content. It may be during Plan B. It may be some other time. It might take you by surprise because you will all of a sudden realize that you have been content for a while. It was like that for me.

All your prayers (even the unanswered ones) do matter. Prayer changes us-no matter what the outcome. All your work on yourself, all your interactions with your sons, all your honesty here at MB, and all your struggles-they matter.

It has made you more of who you always were meant to be-no matter what your WH chooses to do.

LilSis should not be sacrificed to save her M. It is not "save the marriage at all costs" She as an individual needs to feel worth and to know that decisions she makes based on her knowledge of her own life are valuable.

Threatening to leave her thread because she is in "Plan LilSis" is bullchit. What a great support that is...."do exactly as I say, exactly when I say it, or I'm not going to talk to you anymore"

We are each in our own "Plan" and use MB plans the best that we can with our own interpretations of them. Each one of us may read them differently and have a different take on them.

Sis will not be a valuable asset to ANY relationship unless she is comfortable and confident of herself. When she posts to us what has happened recently in her life and then gets 2x4ed over and over and over again, it is not helping her become comfortable and confident of herself. She will continue to analyze and questions and feel unsure of her own judgement. It's DONE, LET IT GO!!!!

She didn't kill the M, she took a step in saving herself.

However, I don't disagree that we should all stand by what we say in our Plan B letters. This was a mis-step from the "perfect" Plan B. What is the cost? Who knows... What is the gain? A step towards peace for LilSis.

((((LilSis)))))

Fox
(take your shots--- Plan Fox with the help of MB Plan B has helped me become a stronger and more confident woman.)

I've learned that EMOTIONAL SUPPORT feels good but keeps me stuck...

Being LOVINGLY CONFRONTED by folks on HERE and IRL have led to my PERSONAL CHANGE and RECOVERY...

The question is does one want to FEEL GOOD or GROW?

LilSis appeared to me to be sitting on a plateau, she now appears to be on the next tier of personal recovery. She had a mini-epiphany and found some inner peace with it. LilSis' personal emotional health should not be forgotten. Forcing her GROWTH right in this moment may not be the best idea. I believe a person grows when it is necessary to grow. We don't determine when it happens. Each person comes to it on their own when it is their time.

And what happens if she doesn't GROW right now? Maybe it's okay for her to BE STILL right now. Not be pushed so hard to fix herself when maybe she's just okay how she is in this moment. I've seen a lot of growth from her.

I hope LilSis feels as you do that she has been LOVINGLY CONFRONTED. I hope she didn't see it as I have. I try to stay out of these debates but for whatever reason I felt the need to come in and defend a bit. I think everyone means well but threatening to leave her thread because she wasn't doing the Plans exactly as some posters think she should was a bit over the top.

LOVINGINLY CONFRONTING can be a form of EMOTIONAL SUPPORT. We don't have to agree with any of her actions, but we also don't need to beat her over the head when we don't agree. I don't think we should question and debate every move she makes. Sis has to make decisions based on her knowledge of her life and hopefully the information on MB helps her make educated decisions. She has to deal with those decisions and cannot be second guessing herself on every step. Do we want her to be someone who cannot make a decision on her own but must check in first? I trust her more than that.

I don't remember Sis saying she FELT GOOD after this last discussion. She did say that she found a certain peace and was able to detach a little more. That is what she has been pushed to do. Who's to say it wasn't GROWTH?

Please remember where we are at this point in our marriages. We are floundering until we can get to a mini-epiphany that pushes us to that next level of understanding and allows us to detach just a bit more.

LilSis - I apologize for jumping in here like this, especially if you weren't feeling the way I was. I try to stay out of these debates. I don't know why, but I got very defensive of you this time. I remember what it felt like when I found a resting place within myself. It didn't necessarily FEEL GOOD but was just quiet. That was the moment some of the chaos that was my life took a break. That chaos hasn't been back to the level that it was. There has to be a level of acceptance of our situations for us to go on. This is a looooong fight...and denial won't help. I think you have reached a level of acceptance of your sitch based on this convo with your WH. Doesn't mean you are giving up, just that you know where you stand right now and can handle it.

I believe you can make good decisions for you and your boys. Take what you know, take what you've learned, and take what you will continue to learn and do what is best for you and your boys. There are no guarantees no matter what decision you make.

Best to you, LilSis.

Fox

I don't have a problem with what she did. I do understand that it may have impacted the effectiveness of her plan B and also contributed towards her "seeing" that she is done with this Wayward. But in general I think there are some waywards that need to be "faced" and hear the truth whether they like it or not and I think in doing so the BS sometimes sees this person for who they have chosen to become and is repelled or disgusted and gains strength to really move on whether with a D or in a more resolute plan B if they still have any desire to save the marriage.

In my view, BR was helping Sis mainly with her PERSONAL GROWTH ...not with the plans...the PLANS tend to be MY FOCUS..and I agree everyone is not READY at the same time..sometimes we are at a place where we mainly want EMOTIONAL SUPPORT...

Well said, hap. In one paragraph you made clear what I was trying to say in 14 paragraphs! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

There are times when we WANT emotional support and there are times we NEED it. I don't want Sis to question every second of her life. When our own world is in such chaos and pain and anguish....for me, it only adds to it when I start getting questioned from every angle. Then I start constantly questioning myself and whether I can still make good decisions.

The waywards already make us feel worthless. I have never GROWN from being poked and prodded when I am at my lowest. I need the support of knowing I'm worthwile in the moment, then the gentle questioning later, when I'm at a better place to accept it.

I really don't believe anyone is intending to hurt Sis on purpose. Maybe it's just where I am at in my own personal space right now. Looked to me like a pack of wolves. Not everyone needs to have a constant kick in the a$$ in order to grow.

Fox

I agree..everyone is different.

I WAS A TOTAL MESS when I came here, though.

I profitted MOST..HERE..., though, from the PRACTICAL ADVICE and the KICKS in the long run..I guess I could take it better from STRANGERS who amazingly seemed TO CARE enough to be candid..like TOUGH LOVE...

I got EMOTIONAL SUPPORT in my real life and relied on my FAITH in the LORD.

That's me, though..everyone's different. You're right.

Well said HAP and Fox, I was disturbed as well by all the hoo-hah and felt very protective of Sis. I believe that she got exactly what she needed by doing what she did. She hasn't been in the "heat" of the battle in quite awhile and has had some time to reflect and learn things about herself (personal growth). So it wasn't as if she just went off and did this on a whim. I say good for her.

And as far as her boys, those are HER children and Lil Sis is a great mom. I don't believe she would EVER do anything to harm them. Having them hear their dad say he knows he is wrong is far better than them thinking that their dad thinks he right when they know better.

{{{Lilsis}}} I've followed your thread and you are a WONDERFUL MOTHER. Don't you let anyone make you doubt that for one second!!

Hey Sis, ya out there? Hope so.

You've gotten a lot of 'kicks in the a$$' over the last few days, so I hope you are able to take what all say as loving criticism, as I'm sure it is intended. I, for one, am not going anywhere; I'll be sticking around to keep up with you, to help where I can, and to get help from you when I need it too.

We are all brothers and sisters here, just trying to help you, and sometimes, we may be harsh, and sometimes, it may be warranted. That's what real friends do, even cyber friends who don't know you from the next person we see. We are or have been in the wreck together. People want you to be able to avoid things by seeing their mistakes. Sometimes we are able to do that--y'know, like YEOUCH, that looks bad, I don't think I'll do THAT. BUT, sometimes we need to hear, see, feel and know for ourselves.

I, too, broke my plan B, a few times, and I can NOW advocate not wasting your time; however, I did learn from it, and became more aware of what others were saying her. I UNDERSTOOD what they were saying when I was finally faced with MY WH. Until that point, somewhere deep inside, I still felt that my situation was different, that PWC was so very different, somehow, someway. Well, after facing him and talking to a directionless blob, a blob that was stringing his family along for the rough ride, I KNEW what people meant. I understood, and was then, really able to let go.

Sometimes we gotta lose to see what we have won. You now know that what we say is true; that a WS is lost, completely and utterly lost, and until they bounce off of the ground or hit it with a thud, they will not budge. It's good that you really know this now; that you've witnessed the fear with you own eyes and know that there is nothing you can say to reach through, not really--he must find his own way.

And, there you go....Well said Sil. It sometimes does not hurt to truly be confronted by the wayward in all their ugliness in order to "move on", move on with D or move on in what I called a resolute, absolute no contact, darker than space plan B.