Do you know what a personal victory that is for you?

Do you know how many people let the dark side act out, but never acknowledge its existence?

You're right; it's only when you're willing to face up to what your dark side will pushing you towards, that you can identify and resist better in the future.

Well, well done.

And well done on apologising to the boys. That is properly respectful to them (and deep down they'll be relieved that you did). Do you know how many adults never apologise to their children?

Onwards and upwards.

TA

LS:

Hope you got past the hives!

My Mother would get them, and she was miserable....

Keep fighting for what's right!


LG

{{{{LilSis}}}}

JinGA

(((lilsis)))

Lot's of support and understanding for you!

LilSis ~


So what words do you feel should have been used instead?

You see, I don't think that it is loving to pretend or "support" behavior that harms yourself and your children and your marriage.

I think what you did could provide quite a bit of insight as to why your husband was left feeling vulnerable for an affair. There is lots of food for self-reflection and self-inventory here if you were willing to stop defending it and examine your motives.

I don't think you can change what you don't acknowledge.

No one I know has lovebusted their way into happiness and recovery, marital or personal.

So you can claim this was a giant step to personal recovery and I will not "lovingly" support you in what is a load of crap. I will not "lovingly" help you harm yourself.

Your personal recovery lies in becoming the best you that you can be, and that means not gaining at the expense of other people.

wow.
wow.
wow.

so Lilsis breaking plan B and confronting her H on things he SHOULD be confronted on, shows you why her H was vulnerable to an affair??? I think that what she did was heroic and difficult. There can be debate about the kids being there...but I say if you are in a fight for your life... and she is... that sometimes you need to come out swinging. Some things are worth fighting for and she decided that it was best to break Plan B at that point...how she proceeds from there is her option.

I agree with BR. She expresses my viewpoint well.

Pep's last post on DEFENDING TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE in regards to Dr. Harley's viewpoint on ANGRY OUTBURSTS speaks to this.

I share this for those who want to LEARN MORE about the MBer's APPROACH..whether you agree with it or want to practice it or not..I really feel like that's a PERSONAL CHOICE...But me, I would advocate it for those that I LOVE AND REALLY CARE ABOUT

The MBers approach is defined by Dr. harleys words above Mimi. He clearly says that after learning his basic concepts that people can adapt them to come up with solutions to their marital crisis.

I thought further about your read of Dr. Harley, MEDC.

I THINK..and you would have to ask him..he means for folks to ADAPT to the PLANS according to the DIFFERING EMOTIONAL NEEDS of the partners. That's why they stress getting the ENs Questionnaires.

Regarding Sis, what's the use in remarking on her comments or yours.

I read her to mean that she is not hearing anything that she FEELS is not SUPPORTIVE of her ACTIONS. That she takes what we say as PERSONAL ATTACKS.

I used to feel that way about MBers...ask PEP...

But how can you guys attack me PERSONALLY? You don't REALLY know me... I get out of MBers what I put in....the more I really put in, the more I allow myself to be VULNERABLE and the more I LEARN about MYSELF...

Not "WE"...just some who seem to be kicking her even from other's POV!

I was using "WE" as the collective MBer's, Rin.. 'cause she didn't name any names...and I didn't know EXACTLY whom she was referring to..I could guess... So how do you know? Making assumptions?

Sis - First off .. let me say how I really do think the world of you and totally understand how very hard this all is and yes, unfair.. but --

I, too, agree 100 % with BR... I have given this alot of thought Sis and came up with the same conclusion as BR.

You see, Sis, doing the yard work and basically running the household all by yourself is -- not the same -- as growing as a person. Applaudable - yes, but there is more...

That has more to do with growing inside and dealing with others on the outside in that same manner...

I know you wanted to DO something, that is totally understandable (not exactly according to the Plans here, but understandable none the less) but you really have to see WHY you did what you did...

Perhaps you can talk with you IC about this and maybe she can tell you exactly what BR told you, but in a way that you will be more receptive.

Sis, I truly (as everyone else here) am not trying to slam you.. it is not WHAT you did --

but WHY.....


carnation

NO!

EXACTLY!!

LilSis, I've had a hivey summer myself, no good, I hope you feel better.

I read your post and see strength. No matter what happens with your H, you are the one you live with for the rest of your life. Your H may choose to live his life out in a world of crap and wrong. Defining what you want is a good thing.

Some of us managed to recover our marriages without a good Plan B. I personally did Plan A for 18 months. Tried B, just wasn't right for me, but I did set boundaries and eventually served the D papers.

Then reconciled.

Maybe a good Plan B would have worked more quickly.
Maybe I would have been divorced instead of recovered now.
Maybe it took as long as it took.

I'm personally in debt and hold great gratitude and thankfulness to Bramblerose for something that gives me great support in my daily life.

However, I don't quite get this insistance on Plan B as the only solution. Goodness knows I thought I was familiar enough with MB after all these years and I hold the principles in great regard.

But I do think that each situation, however similar, is unique and the longer the A goes on, the more forks & winding of the path.

MEDC ~ I have no argument with your point that the Plans can be adapted to individual situations.

I've seen the Harley's do it frequently - I had a friend who was sent to Plan B immediately and did a Plan A much later on, with Steve's guidance.

That's not the problem here and I am not calling LilSis for breaking Plan B. I am calling her on individual issues that have brought her to where she is today. I am calling her on behavior and motives that are ultimately harmful to HER recovery.

But really...seriously, people need to stop critiquing each other's advice to LilSis. The need of people to be RIGHT is really pretty overwhelming to the entire thread.

If you have something to offer, offer it. Don't just sit around taking shots at others - it descends into squabbles and dilutes the focus.

Sounds like Sis gets that she let the 'dark side' come out, no denial, just flat out recognizing it. Also, recognizing that it is not a GOOD thing, that she has a sticking point there, and will need to work on it.

I'm in a recovery situation, and I'm going to be working on the need to be right for some time now, it won't stop right away. The first step is recognizing it. Now that she has, lets move on to help by showing ways, even exercises, in how to break the HABIT, the ANGER. ( I could learn a thing or two about this, also, and appreciate all of the information)

I think the debating over one posters position vs. another can be a bit nauseating sometimes. Breakdown occurs and there is no real direction to the thread anymore.

You can have any deilvery style you wish, be is brusk, be it ultra sweet, be it gentle or be it straight forward. Say something ONCE and move the heck on. It really does get to the point of ridiculousness on Sis' thread sometimes. Nothing really gets SOLVED, it seems to break down. My thread has never been like that, so I can't see it from Sis' perspective, but I can bet that she's gonna feel the way she feels, attacked or not, and nobody here can change that. The only thing you can do is drop your advice here, and hope that she see's beyond her wounds.

In some ways, I agree with MEDC; maybe it's my pride, who know's, but I do agree that questioning someone's motivations for destroying a family is just fine. I don't think shoving in their face how WRONG they are is very helpful, but I did that, too. I've learned that *I* was WRONG in doing that, and further withdrew from PWC's LB when I did that, but I couldn't learn the lesson without performing the deed.

breaking plan B to deliver a lovebuster in person is not going to get a

"~hallelujah~ great plan B tactic" from me, and I do understand Sis's lack of empathy for her husband at this time

I don't think it was an especially nasty Plan B error, but I do think this lovebuster represents a pattern of "straightening him out" .... which is what her Plan A was trying to show she was willing to correct

I understand her actions completely

however, I do not applaud them as part of a great Plan B

because, it's not

BR, you do realize that even you did this, don't you?

As for LS, what could she possibly say here to make this back and forth stop and move on. She already stated the following:


What more does she need to say to get everyone to move forward?

IMo, when more than one person feels that it is a personal attack on the thread owner than the that person(s) should eventually realize it and commit to a little personal growth of their own...soften their approach, something...

I don't think there is a "right" way to MB...