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Sis, this is off topic... But I have a question from one law enforcement wife to another. Can you email me at mbinadaze@yahoo.com
None are more unjust in their judgments of others than those who have a high opinion of themselves.
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Amen strivn!! I feel for lilsis... all this shame on you talk has to get old. I'm surprised she sticks around. She has shown she is one tough woman. I admire her for what she's done. Mistakes and all. NO ONE here is perfect.
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I'm still evidencing MY NEED TO BE RIGHT? I was supposed to have changed that during my PLAN A..I'm slipping...NO LONGER PERFECT... Point well taken, BR...Seriously... Those behavioral patterns can be SOOOOO ingrained... I think I do get PERSONALLY INVOLVED here 'cause rightly or wrongly I see so much of MYSELF in Sis... It really comes from a CARING PLACE, I think, in me to want to encourage her to take a look at this... 'Cause MY CHANGES (I thought) in this regard have meant THE WORLD to me... I have to remember another horse analogy (sorry Jo): "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him drink" I am truly sorry Sis if I have made too much of AN ASSUMPTION that you share my same issues and if you do, I am wrong in wanting so badly for you to CHANGE in the ways that I have... I'M LETTING YOU GO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by mimi_here; 07/06/07 10:27 AM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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SL, I completely agree with your take on this.
I do not think personal recovery can be forced based on a collective view of what Sis "coulda shoulda or woulda" done. I do not see where Sis is asking to be told that she is *right* in her approach.
Sis, you have already acknowledged that you have a dark side, you have already acknowledged that you realize you need to work on specific issues. I do not see where you are asking *us* to agree with you. Your personal recovery is not in OUR hands...ultimately it is in yours. We can not circumvent the missteps in your journey. You will live and learn as each of us have.
Last edited by robertswife; 07/06/07 10:43 AM.
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Here goes. So what words do you feel should have been used instead? I don't know. Use a thesaurus. But is someone could please enlighten me as to how all that you said differs from a DJ, which is described (in terms of a marital relationship) by Harley: At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want. I freely admit that what I did on Monday was DJ my WH. Are you willing to admit that you DJ'd me? I think what you did could provide quite a bit of insight as to why your husband was left feeling vulnerable for an affair. So I DESERVED this to happen to me??? Come on. That's just friggin' low. Clearly he was vulnerable to an affair, because he HAD one, but there were about a million ways he could have responded to any issues that we had within our marriage...and he chose an A. That action lies squarely on HIS shoulders. Not mine. Having said that, I will say no more, because I think that remark ABSOLUTELY speaks for itself. There is lots of food for self-reflection and self-inventory here if you were willing to stop defending it and examine your motives. I am examining my motives, which I described in part in my post last night. Are you examining YOURS?? I don't think you can change what you don't acknowledge. Did you read my entire post from last night, or were you just "selectively listening" (which you also accused me of)? Did I not acknowledge that this incident has helped me become more aware of my darker side, my more impulsive tendencies? No one I know has lovebusted their way into happiness and recovery, marital or personal.
So you can claim this was a giant step to personal recovery and I will not "lovingly" support you in what is a load of crap. I will not "lovingly" help you harm yourself. So you are going to lovebust your way to "helping" me recover? As you said, that doesn't work for marital or personal recovery. "Lovingly confront" was mimi's phrase, BTW. Your personal recovery lies in becoming the best you that you can be, and that means not gaining at the expense of other people. Take your own advice. BTW...TA, I appreciated your honesty the other day. It stung, a lot, but it was right on. And I don't say that because of your post this AM...I wanted to share that anyway.
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I have to remember another horse analogy (sorry Jo): "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him drink" Even if you beat it to death. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I'm surprised she sticks around. Thank you, I know when it was my "turn", I didn't want too...I enjoy my peaceful days on MB! Supporting with an occasional 2x4...of course, "when needed"... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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I'm glad you're still here swinging Lilsis!
You've got guts!
I have no desire to analyze you or your actions.
I'm not qualified. And as far as I'm aware nobody else posting here is either.
I hope you'll consider turning to the PRO. Someone with a master's degree in applied behavior analysis, with loads of experience in this infidelity crap.
I would feel lovebusted too. Let's not forget that "educating" someone feels like a lovebuster too.
Someone has to be in the right "place" to be accepting of some of this -- and I think there's some insensitivity to when the timing is right.
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LilSis, Even though I do no know you, I have come to care about what happens to you as much as is possible in cyber space. You have absolutely no reason to listen to what I say any more than anyone else here or IRL. But I ASK YOU to PLEASE READ and CONSIDER this (I apologize for the length) - I was reading your post that contained this passage... And I DO NOT think I am special!!! I am the same as everyone else around here...less patient, maybe, than most. I enjoy coming here because I am the SAME as everyone here, unlike in IRL, where many don't understand. I think perhaps I open up more and reveal more than many, but that's my choice; it's a huge release for me and I'm glad that it has been helpful to some people. On the other hand, it probably also gives people more ammunition.
If I were so "special," my WH never would have left, would he? And I was right with you up to that last line. The reason it jumped out at me is because it sounds like the same kind of thing I used to write here. You are obviously a highly intelligent and thoughtful person. You know that by "special" people mean they think you feel "different" or that your circumstances are "special". When I read about the passive-agressive dance, I recognized myself in the victim role. But I also recognized myself in the PA role sometimes as well. I can twist that knife in the back as effectively as any skilled PA can. I know I can wither people with my words, because there have been circumstances in my life where I have used that ability (thankfully it was usually to protect my children and not just for some self-gratification). I seem to have a natural "talent" for honing in on what will hurt the most. When I feel like my back is against the wall, that part of me tries to come out. I think it is akin to what you did with WH - the very dark side you were talking about. This line was brilliant - casting yourself in the victim role while taking a shot at others - gaining sympathy and making them feel bad at the same time - insighting a response that can only make them look bad and be construed as attacking you again. That dark side can sneak out in all sorts of ways. For me, it can still leak out before I know it, but I have learned to catch it more often. It actually leaves me laughing out loud sometimes when I see the absurdity of what I was about to say or do. LilSis - you have my prayers and support. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do not expect you to grow or change overnight. This is a long process. There is a plan in all of this. I am hoping the plan is this - when your M does move to recovery, you will be so far ahead in this process that it will ease much pain in the future. Your cyber-friend and major supporter, SHOL
I put a dollar in a change machine, but nothing changed. - George Carlin
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Married 35 yrs, together 37
Way past the A
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LilSis:
Remember it's about the change that someone else needs to make too.
I like your realization about the dark side. How you can see it now.
Good.
We can move you up to the Jedi category with that. No More Padawan.
On August 2, Due to the passivity of your WH, this could all be over.
Your attempt, just to ask a question, to maybe slow that inevitable date down, was probably needed.
Your allowed to fight, there are rules to the fight, rules that the Waywards do not have to follow.
If you felt that you HAD to ask. That after four months, of your WH not really ever attempting to break your Plan B... (halfheartedly, but he never REALLY TRIED)
That you would have ended up on August 2, standing on the other side of the aisle from that man thinking "I could have just asked" That question would have haunted you for a very long time.
And you asked. You didn't puddle, you didn't force it. You faced it. The great evil was in the room.
And all he wanted was for you to not make him pay you $2,500 in additional child support.
Remember, he has a choice in this. A choice he continues to make.
MB Concepts are about saving marriages.
Plan B is a method of assisting in that process.
LilSis, please keep moving forward. You are growing, you are no longer Miss Perfect. Your just LilSis, trying to make sense of this topsy-turvy world you live in...
LG
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Lexxy- I really appreicated your post...I love reading your stuff...I admire you in so many ways... You are an inspiration that I enjoy...for this I thank you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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Thanks, Lex.
The thing about the dark side is that there are some valuable components to it. Think Giver/Taker. Id/Ego/Superego.
First, be aware of it. Acknowledge the good with the bad. Temper it. Find a way to balance it. Use the power for good. IC referred to Star Wars (yay!!) when Luke saw his face in Darth Vaders mask.
And I'm sure everything I wrote in my last post will sound like me trying to be right...but what it feels like is me defending myself, standing up to what *I* experience as bullying...
The KEY POINT: The message, the intent, gets lost when it is conveyed in a way that FEELS like a personal attack. It's a valuable lesson to learn...and being on the receiving end of it is the best way to learn it, I guess.
And besides, I'm pissed off and itchy as he11.
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The KEY POINT: The message, the intent, gets lost when it is conveyed in a way that FEELS like a personal attack. [color:"red"] EGG ZAK LEE [/color] my former sig line [b]We judge ourselves by our intent. Others judge us by our behavior.
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And besides, I'm pissed off and itchy as he11. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Your good enough, your smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like you!
I put a dollar in a change machine, but nothing changed. - George Carlin
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Married 35 yrs, together 37
Way past the A
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SHOL: Good catch, and excellent point. It was the same as skewering, wasn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Let me clarify something, because you hit on this. The word "special" has been used so many times, and MY interpretation of that word (emphasis on MY) is that I put myself ABOVE others, superior, as if I am "better." That couldn't be further from the truth, and it has always rubbed me the wrong way.
"Different" has a very different implication for me, one that I wrap my head around more easily. It's like I get to that word--special--and automatically balk. And it seems like that word is used deliberately...maybe not, but word choice is significant.
Along with the dark side...add stubborn to the mix.
Does that make sense, SHOL?
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my former sig line
[b]We judge ourselves by our intent.
Others judge us by our behavior. Pep: Maybe I'll finally give myself a sig line with that one.
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I am the queen of paying attention to MY INTENT and thinking that MY GOOD INTENT is quite enough ~~~
it's been a good and difficult lesson for me
and, it's ongoing
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Makes perfect sense.
Head knows the intent of the word special.
Emotions go crazy when that word is used.
Good days=logic can reason with emotions
Not so good days=emotions slam dunk logic
Stubborn? H & I are both half German. Problem is, H is also half Irish. He used to have a t-shirt that read "Irish Temper and German Stubbornness". Keeps our R interesting!
SHOL
I put a dollar in a change machine, but nothing changed. - George Carlin
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Married 35 yrs, together 37
Way past the A
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Each decision we make, each action we take, is born out of an intention.
Sharon Salzberg, O Magazine, The Power of Intention, January 2004
A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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SHOL: I'm mostly Irish. And my Irish gets up now and then.
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