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sdguy038 #1900369 08/23/07 08:30 PM
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Sis,

I want to offer something about being a mom that I can only see now that I have the unique perspective of being able to have grown kids, and can look BACK.

I could never have seen this, living in the moments, in the harried and hassled moments of raising this one particular ADHD teenager! But now, she is grown, and I can see the results.

When my youngest was a teenager, she had a very unique world around her. Because she was a talented musician, she moved in a very large and diverse group of people. Her friends at school were from every economic group, every social group, and every clique you can name (hippies, freaks, jocks, etc.). Her own style at the time was a preference to hang out with a group of kids who were from a local area of quite wealthy people. When I say wealthy, I mean....CEOs of major corporations, private jets, limos, yachts, servants, and homes that three of mine could fit inside.

She constantly wanted clothing that was name-brand only - but the name brands were things that were out of reach for me, as you can guess. We fought this battle time and time again, with me trying to teach her that clothing and brand names don't make you who you are inside, there's more to being a person than what name brand is on the tag of your shirt, etc. I thought I was fighting a losing battle.

I was certain that my words and lessons fell on deaf ears, and that nothing meant anything to her of what I said.

I couldn't have been more wrong.

She came home from college on her first weekend after being away in her freshman year (this was several years ago), and met up with the friends. She was disappointed with them. She told me that they had not changed; that they had kept being the same, and hadn't made the jump to the "real world".

When she came home at spring break again she met them. This time, she came back to the house within an hour or so, to "hang out" with me. She said they were still locked in to wearing brand names, being rich, and they still hadn't figured out that it was about WHO you were - not what you HAD.

She talks to them from time to time now. They buy tickets to see her and her band. She wears clothes from the second-hand store, because she chooses to, and because she makes her stage costumes from them for her gigs. She's different from them, but they still get along and share old stories from time to time. The music she writes and performs always carries a message. Her band says that they want to bring "intelligence and thought back into popular music" - and many of the messages she sings about are the very things I tried to teach her along the way. Her bandmates' parents are a lot like me - people who worked hard to raise good kids.

None of us were perfect, either.

I have discovered that she WAS listening, watching, learning, all along.

She was also developing her own voice. She was learning from me to think on her own. After all, aren't we in the business of parenting to raise INDEPENDENT ADULTS?

I hope I am succeeding. She hasn't fully been launched yet - she has yet one more course to take to finish her degree. But she is doing that, too.

Despite my mistakes, which I would LOVE to be able to go back and fix!!!!!, she has blossomed into a remarkably fine young woman with a brain, political sensibilities and ideas of her own, assertiveness that I would love to have had at her age, stage presence, charisma, and the guts to take off on a 6-state tour with her own band at the age of 23.

But if you had told me she would be this way when she was 16, I would have told you that you were CRAZY - that this kid would NEVER listen long enough to get past the front door successfully.

I guess she proved me wrong. I'm so glad she did!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
schoolbus #1900370 08/24/07 07:03 AM
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SB: What a great story with a great message. You should write a book. Your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman with a lot of strength and character. Gifts that you gave her...

So, for starters:
Be strong, but don't be afraid to show weakness; it teaches them that they don't have to be perfect.
Have integrity, do my best, be kind, be honest, be generous, be fair; it teaches them how to live.
Hug, hold, see, and listen; it teaches them how to be loving.
Laugh and cry; it teaches them that emotions are okay to feel.

There's more, but DS9 wants a special breakfast.

LilSis #1900371 08/24/07 05:50 PM
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Fall down; it teaches them how to get up again.
Burn dinner; it teaches them how to order out.
Learn patience; and save it for when you need to teach them to drive.
Finally, learn to wave good-bye without crying, and do it strongly on the day they go to college. Smile when they go that morning, and tell them you are proud of them but will miss them. And let them fly free that one precious day, so they have dignity, self-assuredness, and a sense that you trust and believe in their "adulthood". They will come home soon enough. After all, they never REALLY leave. Sort of like the swallows at San Juan Capistrano.

SB

schoolbus #1900372 08/25/07 07:00 AM
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Or, "Burn dinner, it teaches them how to shut of the smoke alarm?"

I must make a list. You know; so I'll do this perfectly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

***
Feeling a little blue, maybe, this morning? Nostalgic? I woke up early, as I have been doing lately, came downstairs to make coffee, and just felt...I don't know. Thinking how nice it would be to have coffee with my husband in the morning....not a guest, but another adult who has an equal reason for being here, who's accustom to seeing me in the morning with my bed head and racoon eyes, who is here because this is his home and his family and there's no place on earth he'd rather be.

But I'm letting myself feel it.

And at the same time, I'm remembering what a nice day I had with the boys yesterday. We went downtown so I could stop quickly at the office, got smoothies at my favorite coffee place, and walked around downtown for a couple of hours, exploring and walking along the riverwalk.

DS11 had a friend over last night, we took the dog for a walk and got ice cream (another great reason for living in this house is that there's an ice cream shop just down the street!). The older boys played on the computer most of the evening, and DS9 and I popped popcorn and watched Lord of the Rings on TV, sitting on my bed.

DS9 talked through the whole movie and I let him. He said this was his favorite thing in the world to do. The boys are happy, and this is home. I have much I CAN give them. I'm feeling quite good about that.

I think this morning is more about ME. What I'm missing right now.

I'm getting better at separating things out...one thing, one emotion at a time. My parenting/the boys' adjustment...this is one thing. My hurt/pain/anger...this is another thing.

I am teasing the knot apart....just a little.

I miss these things, the partnership of a husband. I can let myself miss these things. I can recognize that the heart of my melancholy is missing and longing for what I do not have.

Because I can name the feeling, and know where it comes from, and know that there are also other feelings that will take its place eventually, I don't feel so frantic to act on the feelings I am having right now. They are not so scary. I'll be okay.

I'll also be honest and say that I'm wondering about whether or not WH will ever hit bottom, and when that will be...or if he will end up being a 3%er, even if it is an unhappy one. I am wondering about him.

In addition to the stuff I miss, I'm also remembering the things that bugged me...how he wouldn't put his dishes in the dishwasher, how distant he was the last two years before he left (when he was actively in the A), how he withheld complimenting me and showing affection. I find myself longing for a relationship in which I feel really adored, for who I am, and just as I am. I feel safe.

I am quite sure that I deserve that. I'm learning the tools to bring that to a new relationship. I'm still wishing that relationship was with my husband; the father of my children. I don't know if he has what it takes....he certainly doesn't NOW, but I don't know if it's in him at all, when I think back to even very early in our relationship, and when I look at his dad.

It's not for me to worry about. Right now, I've got this life to live. I've got a warm, cozy home with two boys who seem content, good friends, a dog who sticks right by me (although it is becoming apparent that she'd love ANYONE, even an intruder), a loving family, a great job.

I'll be okay.

LilSis #1900373 08/25/07 08:12 AM
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just popping in to say good morning.

what city are you in again, LS? i got a lovely vision when you talked about walking downtown w/ your boys.
you have a nice life and i know you know that....i know how tough it can be when we are forced to face the things we miss and still want be appreciative.
you sound well. hang in there. this will pass....better times will come. you will feel fully happy again some day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by nia17; 08/25/07 08:16 AM.
nia17 #1900374 08/25/07 08:49 AM
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Because I can name the feeling, and know where it comes from, and know that there are also other feelings that will take its place eventually, I don't feel so frantic to act on the feelings I am having right now. They are not so scary. I'll be okay.

THIS is living in today with self-acceptance!

Good job!


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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My grandparents were both from Scotland, and growing up, my Grandma always told me that her dream was to one day have tea and biscuits with me in her homeland. She dreamed of me seeing the beautiful gardens of flowers in the cities of Scotland, and talked of them in her accent which is etched in my brain to this day.

She and I never could afford that trip together when I was young, and when I got older and could afford it, a terrible stroke had taken away her ability to talk and travel.

She died several years back, and there are so many days that I miss her voice, and the tea and biscuits. Biscuits, to her, BTW, are shortbread cookies.

Last summer my good friend and I decided we both needed a break from it all. We spontaneously booked a tour of England and Scotland on a whim. We flew off together, for a week, and toured the countryside. The morning we were in Edinburg, I sat in a beautiful old hotel restaurant across from a city park full of roses in bloom. I sat at a table at the window in the window on the second floor. The early morning was still slightly foggy, but the sun was just breaking through and washing the park with rays of light. The hillside rose up across the street in the park and was awash in banks of colors of pink, yellow, red, white, salmon..every rose color imaginable. When the waitress came, I asked for tea and biscuits, and drank them in memory of my Grandmother and all the times we had dreamed of this in my childhood. Somehow, I knew she would have loved this moment.

The feelings of the affair were there with me on that trip, as I was just about nine months out from d-day. But that morning, I began to understand that those feelings were not going to rule my life. That I could, and would, survive all of this, and more.

And I have.

I can close my eyes anytime and have tea and biscuits in Edinburg with Grandma and the roses. It is a soothing place and memory for me. I use this sometimes as a calming technique.

You can find your place, Sis. There is a place that does this for you. Maybe this morning you did?

SB

schoolbus #1900376 08/27/07 07:02 PM
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Yes, SB, I will find my place. And I'm okay (right now) with just letting that happen. Enjoying now for what now offers. One day at a time.

I do need to work on procrastination. Not with work, etc., but with things related to the D. I need to have the pension appraised...some of this stuff that I do not want to deal with and I've been putting off. I will feel better when I just "do it," but getting over the hump...

DS11 and I painted the spare room yesterday. It has been the intent to take care of this room for three years. Since its use as a nursery has ended, it has become a catch-all room.

DS9 and I worked together to strip the wallpaper a few weeks ago, and yesterday DS11 and I painted while DS9 was at a friend's.

DS11 really REALLY wanted to paint part of the wall with a brush rather than the roller, so he could make swirly marks and designs in the paint.

At first I said no, the walls need to be done RIGHT.

Then I said, okay, but only over here where it will be hidden behind the bookcases (that have been in their boxes since WH and I--along with RT and her H and churchlady and her H--went to Ikea outside Chicago three years ago).

Then I said, go ahead. Have at it. Pick yourself a spot and make all the swirly marks you want. He was delighted.

So right there on the wall next to the window, directly across from the door, is a patch of wall that's all textured, while the rest of the room is smoothly rolled. I got two coats on the whole rest of the room while Picasso experimented and finally perfected his little patch...all the while listening to the countdown on Radio Disney.

DS11 said he couldn't believe how fast the day went, "so it must have been a good day." We capped it off by watching the last LOTR movie.

A swirly paint job: how's that for Miss P taking a vacation? And believe me, it was very conscious...I had to pull myself out of the default NO response. What's important, anyway?

Off to assemble those Ikea bookcases...

LilSis #1900377 08/27/07 08:17 PM
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LilSis:


"Off to assemble those Ikea bookcases... "

WHY?

They have been there for 3 years.

AND now you assemble them and cover up the "Picasso's" work

Please? Be the "Cool Mom" Let him admire his work. Can't the bookcases go on the OTHER wall?

I'd have him finish the whole wall...

This isn't Miss P. Miss P taught him how to paint.

Mom lets him admire his work....

Mom.. who's afaid of what other people think would cover it up.....

DS11: "Dad! you should see the cool room I painted!"

Example:

My DS11 put my name in sticky letters on my Mailbox for my office. That are not perfectly straight. The client who mentions it? I will fire them. But its my sons work. And it reflects on me. But it's what he did. And I'm happy with that....

Sorry about the 2x4. The rest of your post was great....

LG

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OH NO! The book cases aren't going to cover up his patch. Picasso's artwork is in a prominent place for the world to see, in a spot he chose...and he knew where the bookcases were going.

That was the point! I told him to have at it. Pick your spot. You decide. You do what you want, and I'll delight in your happiness...smooth paint jobs out the window.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LilSis #1900379 08/27/07 10:15 PM
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LMAO....I got a good laugh out of that one! Thank you! LMAO

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LMAO


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
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LilSis:

MY BAD.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I read the line about Him painting over there, and didn't get that he COULD paint the public part of the wall... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

MY BAD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry.

I feel like Dobby the house Elf. I will beat myself for my error... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

LG

LilSis #1900381 08/28/07 09:26 AM
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I've a girlfriend that went downstairs and found a small handprint on her wall. When it came time to paint, she simply put a frame around the hand and painted around it.

I, too, let go of my Miss P this weekend and let Leondra wear her ballerina costume and flip flops to the grocery store.

After all, how long is 4 going to last?



Not nearly long enough for me.

>I'll delight in your happiness

Yes.

Another gift.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

Recovered!
Dealan-de #1900382 08/28/07 10:22 AM
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I, too, let go of my Miss P this weekend and let Leondra wear her ballerina costume and flip flops to the grocery store.


SWEET!!

The problem for ME these days is that I am so WILD that I want to do such things at AGE 52..that would be CRAZY wouldn't it???

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1900383 08/28/07 10:30 AM
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Mimi dear - don't you think LilSis is ready for SARK?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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Yep, BR...

That period of time when you turned me on to SARK was a real PERSONAL RECOVERY turning point for ME...

Yep..you've helped to create a SUCCULENT, WILD WOMAN!!!

Today..RED blouse with polka dots...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1900385 08/28/07 08:20 PM
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A quote for Sis from SARK...

Pleasure in Being Consciously Single....like a cheese slice!

Truly choosing to be single is very different from being single and looking for a partner, or just waiting for one. After ending a long-term relationship, I realized that I had never chosen to be single, it had just happened.

So, I embarked on a real love affair with myself, a mad passionate one which involved having a very singular focus on myself and my capacity for SELF LOVE.

I had always been afraid to explore self love for fear of what I would find, or not find there. (Or thought of as selfish!)

Also, who would I be without SOMEONE to love?

Could I really stop "Looking" and just look at myself? and, if I was not enough for myself, How could I be enough for another?

Could I be my OWN someone?...

From "Eat Mangoes Naked" by SARK!

(It's not quite the same typed out here. You NEED to read it in the colorful handwritten scrawls and beautiful doodles across the pages...)

Last edited by BrambleRose; 08/28/07 08:21 PM.

~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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Fear this morning. But I'm breaking it down and trying to find where it's coming from. I think the kids going back and forth is a real trigger for me. I hate the feeling of trying to re-connect with them when they've been gone for two days. It feels so unnatural.

Deep down, I find that feel resentful that they have to go with WH at all. That he doesn't deserve them. That he couldn't possibly really love them because of what he's done to me and to them.

How do I know that he really loves them? How CAN he love them in light of what he's done? I want to believe that he still loves them, but I can't reconcile that with the fact that he left them, that he'd destroy their family, that he'd hurt their mother so very deeply, that he'd be so selfish as to put his own wants and needs above theirs, that he'd consider taking up the role of "Dad" to their former friends...and relegate them to visitor status.

That does not seem like LOVE to me. Not even close. But that can't be true...he can't have fallen out of love with his children the same way he fell out of love with me. He MUST love them. I know he does. But his ACTIONS say otherwise.

What defines love? What distinguishes LOVE from "like," or "appreciate," or "enjoy," or "care for," or even "obligated to?" Does WH meet the threshold? Is it possible to meet the threshold in some ways, but not in others?

Sorry, this is getting way too existential.

But we all deal with this, don't we?

And to Kimmy's point, the gift of a father's love is not mine to give.

Where is this coming from? Is it just resentment that I am displacing somehow? Should I just be feeling grateful that WH gives them whatever he can, and not judge what I think he should be giving them?

I can't be objective about WH's relationship with the boys. Maybe there is some fear, there, too...fear that the boys will love him more than me.

ANYWAY...his relationship with the boys is not for me to deal with. It's HIS, he owns it. I'm referring more to how I react to it...to the feelings that it brings up in me. Wanting to find a place to put these feelings, a context for them, a way to find peace with what IS.

Maybe it IS as simple as that: the gift of a father's love is not mine to give. So I can let it go.

Maybe I just figured it out...all by writing it out.

Please do not 2x4 me for this...I am digging deep, and what is deep is not pretty...which is why it is deep in the first place. These are feelings that I feel ashamed of, so they get buried, and I need to expose them to the light of day.

I'm feeling anything but wild and succulent at the moment.

**

I keep jacking sd's thread, so I figured I should bring some of it over to my own to deal with. He's talking about letting go, and I've been thinking a lot about what that means to me; how *I* experience it.

For me, WH is like a ghost. He's there, but not really. He doesn't really exist, but he's present (if that makes sense). For a long time, he was a ghost that I interacted with almost as if he were real. He followed me around, haunting me, part of everything I did. I've come to a place now where the ghost is still there, but either I'm able to ignore him more, or he's fading, or he's haunting some other place and only coming around me from time to time.

I am getting better at exorcising the ghost...which means living in the present. Living NOW. Being part of the life that IS, that's REAL, not some ghostly image of someone who is really not a part of my life at all anymore.

Sorry this was so scattered.

LilSis #1900387 08/29/07 08:43 AM
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Lilsis-

No 2x4's from me. I think you are getting better at digging deep and figuring out where the emotions are coming from. It's a tough excavation. I think you are also learning to let WH's things be *his*.

We hurt when our kids hurt, but it isn't an "offense" against us. Good job on figuring that out.

Hope your day goes well. Feel free to call up the Ghostbusters here at MB any time you need help with more exorcising.


johnstwin-

"I may not know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future." -Martin Luther

Remarried my FXH 25 years to the day of our first M. God is so good-and sometimes so unexpected!

LilSis #1900388 08/29/07 08:47 AM
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I'm feeling anything but wild and succulent at the moment.


This is not AT ALL a 2x4, Sis...

I'm just sharing my experience...in case it may be helpful to you....

being WILD and SUCCULENT is a CHOICE ...

You said this:

Quote
I am digging deep, and what is deep is not pretty...which is why it is deep in the first place. These are feelings that I feel ashamed of, so they get buried, and I need to expose them to the light of day.


I have this PLACE inside of ME that you talk about...a DEEP, DARK PLACE ....

DAILY... I delberately CHOOSE not to go there...

Instead, I make a CHOICE to be WILD AND SUCCULENT...

or else I will go to my DEPRESSED CORE...

I don't own that part of myself anymore...

I've made a CHOICE...

To LIVE IN THE PRESENT....

And to BE HAPPY...

My happiness is not dependent on my H, Sis...

I'm not HAPPY because I am with HIM...

He ENHANCES my LIFE...

But I can easily be depressed again because of ALL THE OTHER JUNK IN MY HISTORY that had NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH HIM OR HIS AFFAIR...

Make sense?

Do your very best to CHOOSE JOY....

That's the BEAUTY OF SARK...she was the victim of ABUSE and teaches lessons of SELF-HEALING....


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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