LS-
I agree with MEDC. Just get it over with.

In my journey, I have learned that doing something merely for the point of making someone else uncomfortable, does NOT always get the desired result. And YOU are left feeling uncomfortable. Especially if you are enjoying thinking about watching him squirm. Because he might NOT squirm, and your desired result was NOT granted, and you will be disappointed. So, imagine LG's portrayal or it, laugh, fantasize, but just get it over with.

I am glad that you are enjoying your new computer! You seem to be doing well, so that is great!

The ONLY thing--the ONLY thing--that matters to me now is getting the boys and I the very best settlement that I can.

If that means court, so be it.

If that means we settle beforehand, because WH is willing to bend just to avoid getting on the stand, fine.

I wouldn't risk my future or the boys' future just to have the satisfaction of seeing WH sweat. I honestly don't think it would be satisfying, anyway. It would just be sad and pathetic...seeing the man that I married (his body, anyway) up on the stand defending and recounting his complete fall from grace...yuck.

It would be like watching an autopsy. Fascinating in a gross way. Interesting from a clinical perspective, but leaves you with a sick feeling, wishing you never actually saw it.

But I will absolutely do it if my attorney thinks that it's the best way to get what I need. Just like everything else in my life since d-day: I don't want to do it, but I've got no choice. I have to just hunker down and do what I have to do. Just like the other court dates, just like I had to do last October when they hauled me off, just like when I went to community service, just like when I had to tell my boss, when I had to go in for a drug test, when I had to sign the kids up for special services at school.

I haven't had the luxury of being able to run away from anything. It's been slapping me in the face since d-day.

Unlike WH, who has done nothing BUT run away.

On the other hand, if my attorney is able to hammer out an agreement that meets my threshold of "equitable," then we can settle.

And then WH will magically stop feeling "the guilties." Yeah, right....

Interestingly, his case of the guilties is very coincidentally timed to the determination of the settlement, awarding of property, child support amount. Hmmmm....where have the guilties been for the previous 15 months?

Sis,

He feels guilt because he is guilty. There is no other explanation.

And yes, he has made the choice you describe, to live in the basement, with his parents, and date a waitress with whom he had an affair.

Maybe to punish himself. I wonder about that. There is a lot of symbolism in his choices, isn't there?

But from what I have learned, people go through a stage of life where they want no responsibilities. I have wondered if he is going through that? It would certainly explain why he hasn't moved out of his folks' house. Is he just regressing in life? Trying to go back for something he thinks he left behind, or missed? I have wondered about that, too.



I also have seen many with the pattern of trying to rework themselves. They believe they can "start over", by dumping everything they once had and replacing everything in their lives with something new - and by doing so, they will somehow be "new" in the process.

What they find out is that they can buy new cars, move to a new place, get a new job, exchange the wife and kids for a whole new group of people

and they carry with them

the same old problem:

themselves.


They are not "new".

The core is not changed. For awhile, they temporarily change the lighting and decor.

The room is still the same.


Your WH will figure this out, and his reaction will be what everyone's is. He will "know". Whether or not he ever shows it, is a different story.


You spoke of pity.

It is the pity that I had for the miserable souls they must be - the depth of their misery, living inside their own minds with the evil and the darkness - that actually led me to forgive my rapists.

Whether you know it or not, you are now walking that path to forgiveness. The path is shady in some places, but the sun peeks through in others.

You will know when you find yourself standing in the glory and warmth of the full light of forgiving. It might take you a long time. That's okay. But, for what it's worth, I see you moving in that direction.


SB

Thanks, SB. Most of the time, I also think I am moving along the path of forgiveness; other times I'm not so sure. It's reassuring to know that someone with a different perspective can see that I'm headed in the right direction. It goes in fits and starts, I guess.

It's funny that you mention the warmth of the sun.

I talked about growth in IC this week. We talked about how far I've come; how last summer I described so vividly my feeling of being alone on an ice floe, in the middle of a dark, freezing ocean. Now I am on dry land, not necessarily in the lush green grass, but the sun shines intermittently at least.

I described the sky to IC as lake effect. Anyone who has experienced it will understand. Bright sunshine, followed very quickly by thick dark clouds that dump a bunch of snow...so thick you can hardly see. Then a few minutes later, the sun is shining again. Sometimes it's both at the same time...

Anyway.

I have thought the same thing about WH: That he is staying at ILs to punish himself. I have also suspected that perhaps this works well for FIL, too...then he gets to do the punishing. There HAS to be some benefit to ILs to continuing to allow WH to live in their home. (to FIL in particular, since it is so patriarchal) I mean, what 60-something retired couple wants their 38-yo son living with them?

There's some weird dynamic going on over there. Some passive-aggressive, co-dependent something or other. Whatever it is, it ain't healthy...and certainly not a place where growth will be fostered. Only shame, hopelessness...

He's there, under the constant scrutiny and disapproval of his parents, who at the same time look the other way at his behavior...despite the stress it causes in the home.

ILs have never pushed WH. Even in high school...his brothers were both valedictorians, are both docs. Oldest brother is golden boy, second brother did everything to meet that same standard, but didn't come close to the level of "goldenness" of his older brother. By the time WH came along, six years later, I suspect that he decided, "why bother?" No one could ever compete with older brother, and ILs didn't even encourage WH to try.

It's probably a bit of everything: WH is punishing himself, he's finally the center of attention, he gets the satisfaction of throwing it in his parents' faces, he's regressing in many ways...and self-destructing at the same time.

Anyway, I know that attempting to analyze WH isn't productive...except for the fact that thinking things through this way is helpful in moving forward on the path to forgiveness. It's easier to pity someone that way....

Since my eyes were just about rolling into the back of my head as I posted last night...

All of what I said last night about WH/ILs is what I have been thinking. And that's where my dilemma about compassion vs. respect vs. pity comes in.

Pity feels like judging. In some cases, however, isn't it just what it IS? WH is a sorry soul, and of his own making. So I can have compassion for the sorry soul, but since it is of his own making, I have no respect for his actions.

Does compassion - respect = pity???

Anyway...I think that trying to put WH in some sort of context--his FOO issues--helps me to "understand" his behavior and present state of mind.

"Understanding" it helps me put it away. And if I'm really honest with myself, it also helps me to unload it off of myself.

Being really honest with myself, I know that I have not completely unloaded the responsibility off of myself. It's mostly gone...but there's some there yet.

I hate these weekends without kids. Waaaay too much time for reflection and feeling sorry for myself. This morning is church and my friend LK is meeting me there. Maybe we'll go out after for coffee and some 10,000 calorie pastry.

Sis,

Put the analysis away for today.

Get something dripping in gooey chocolate & caramel with whip cream on top!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Sip the coffee.

Chat with your girlfriend about clothes, makeup, recipes, the weather.

Breathe.

Relax.

Welcome your boys home feeling rested & at peace.

Blessings!

"Wherever you go - there you are."
*Buckaroo Banzai*

"She did not run away from us, she ran from herself. And she can't win that race."

-DD19 about Wayzilla last May

I have always wondered why the word "I" is capitalized and the word "alone" isn't.

You are still there when you are Alone.

Even more so "there".

I really enjoyed church and coffee with LK (I had the gooey caramel one...no whip)

Meeting tomorrow at 9 with my attorney to work out our "offer." I have been doing my homework all weekend. I am ready for it....but...

I hate this.

I hate everything about this...seeing the attorney, shuffling the kids back and forth, hearing about their weekend while they were away, hearing about WH's plans to buy a house. Four bedrooms, with room for a 5th. Gee, I wonder why.

I know I have to just tell my brain to shut up, and I will. I just had to get that out. I've got no one else to tell...

Sigh. My "should bes" are making pests of themselves.

Sis,

It's OK to hate this! Really, I am with you on that. It's not our choice, but It is What It Is.

We are Strong Enough to handle it,,,so much stronger than we were and much stronger than we ever knew before.

WH buying a 4 bedroom house? Yeah, ok, whatever. Like, Drac,,, I'll believe that when I see it. And you know what? WHO CARES?

My house is a HOME for my children & me. DD told me tonight that she LOVES our house. She's "SO happy" she's going to live here until she graduates from College!

You house is HOME for those boys, too. That is where they find the unconditional love & support. That is where the really are learning the important lessons of life where you lead by example. And it is a FINE example!

Hang tough baby! I know these next days/weeks will be rough, but you can do it.

{{{{SIS}}}}

Thanks, Bugs. That really helped last night.

I met with my attorney this morning. He thinks we are in good shape and he is drafting an offer and will fax it to me today/tomorrow for my approval before he ships it off to WH's A.

It occurred to me that working on the offer and thinking about the D stuff is me DOING something. It relieves that anxiety...the same anxiety that used to drive me to reach out to WH. That urge to DO.

OTOH, it IS taking care of myself. And I'm not trying to CONTROL anything, I'm trying to become educated and knowledgeable to make good choices. I have actually been quite pleased with my "it's out of my hands" attitude. All I can do is come up with the best plan for me, good arguments to back it up, and hope for the best when the judge and the attorneys take their licks.

Sis,

Wanted to let you know that I am still with you, watching and learning. Your posts this weekend were so insightful and thought provoking.

I'm right there with you...same thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc. You're certainly not Alone.

Fox

Sis,

We are alike in that we need to understand, be educated, be prepared for things. Sounds like you are and are doing so with the knowledge that it will still be what it will be when the judge and the attorneys are doing their thing.

You've done what you can. Is there a set court date if you do not settle?

Hey fox. Good to see you. I share the concerns you mentioned on your thread about overnights on school nights. Every mom in America probably sees the difficulty in the disruption to kids' routines. It may be "fun" for dad to have the boys while they sleep (?), but what about the need for consistency, a schedule....I hope that judges live in the real world, too.

Interestingly, having them sleep there a few more nights could significantly reduce his CS obligation. So the motivation would be.....????

Next Monday is the next settlement conference. My understanding is that a new trial date will be set at that time; however, my attorney does not see it going that way. A new trial date would be a couple of months away (court calendars, I guess), and there will be pressure from the judge and from WH's A to settle before we get that far.

One day at a time. I worry about the day I cross that same finish line. As much as all my DOING has a purpose, I expect that I will feel incredibly lonely and bereft on the day it is final.

You done good today, Bugs.

Sis,

Yes, additional overnights with him would reduce his CS, and if for "Whatever" reason, he doesn't exercise those overnights, the only way to adjust CS after it is set would be to go back to court. Drac did this, too. Saying he'd have DD 2 nights per week. Since I've moved, he's not had her even 1 night because logistically, it won't work. Be VERY cautious there.

As long as the 2 sides are moving towards a settlement, the judge will continue to let you work on that. Yes, they want it settled and off their dockets, but they'd rather the 2 parties work it out vs doing an actual trial. Any pressure to settle on the judge's part is due to that. Most WS's don't want it to go to trial for the reasons you stated a while back & which we all know -- They don't want to have to really FACE what they are doing being talked about in open court. Use that to get the best settlement you can for your kids.

You are right -One day at a time is best. YOU are doing well, too! Try not to think about how you may feel when you reach that finishe line, you may be surprised at yourself. For me it was weird going through it twice in a way. I felt different each time.

Have a Great day Sis!

Thanks, Bugs. Your comments about court seem right on.

I received my attorney's proposal today for my review. Everything was just as I had expected...no surprises. He actually broke it down into a clearer format than I had brought to him on Monday. It is very simple, very clear-cut, and just according to the judges suggestions at a previous conference.

I still feel like obsessing over the settlement is just me DOING something. When it's all said and done, and the ink is dry, what then?? I will have nothing to focus on, nothing to work on. Nothing to channel this WH-related energy into. No marriage to save, no husband to care about, no family to patch together.

Ever again.

WH has been a focal point of my life for so long. Even now, when he's been gone for 15 months...he's still right there. The reality is that it's not WH who's "right there," it's DH, and DH is gone, gone, gone.

I so need to have a whole set of fun and entertaining things to do with friends. It has been much harder to get together since school started. Everyone with kids is so busy.

Have you ever considered taking a bit of a vacation?

I mean somewhere really out of the ordinary for you?

Somewhere you have never been to before?

And then jumping in with both feet.

Whether that's baskin' in the Bahamas or a pub in Ireland or "insert stereotype here" I think there could be a profit in having a clear divisor experience between your married life and your SINGLE [not divorced/rejected] life.

Without WH in your life you have a LOT of free time and free space.

Even though it completely SUCKS to share custody against your will in this charade there is a silver lining in the form of free time to take on new interests that you wouldn't have had time for otherwise.

I'm really sorry that despite your best efforts things didn't work out as you hoped ...you may really benefit from reading Faithinme's thread...you and she have a LOT in common and you both did EXTREMELY well implementing the principles of MB..nevertheless were still divorced ultimately because of the wayward charater of the man you married.

Sis,

In the things you just posted above, I'd say we are almost exactly on the same page. Your thoughts above have been my thoughts lately, too.

What to DO with the energy. I haven't found a single, great answer. No big project. Instead, I am focusing days/weeks at a time. Keeping it small.

Today I sent out a note to a bunch of friends that I am having a party at my house on the 20th. I asked for suggestions for a "theme" - and joking said it should be a Hook Up/Housewarming Party. Everyone needs to bring a single friend or the 'vital' stats on a single friend! LOL!

Acutally it will probably be a Halloween Party. I LOVE dressing up for Halloween! All 4 of us dressed up every year as a family in the same theme,,,,one year was Wizard of Oz, last year was Disney characters. I spent a lot of time every year working on our costumes, and even made some of them or added my own homemade accessories. This year, Drac is buying DDs costume,,,,,he offered, so I said OK although I am a bit afraid he may let her down -but that's HIS, not my problem.

So I really need to do something different this year. I've never had a Halloween party at my house, so it is going to be a NEW tradition for me.

It IS very hard to get together with friends and such when school is in and everyone has to deal with the kid schedules. But, you know what? I've found if you just pick a date & a place, people make it work.

{{{SIS}}}

Man, it really is kind of freaky how similar our pages can be. I've been trying to put my finger on it and come up with something to post on my own thread. I feel like I've detached and let go, and I guess the feeling I'm having is

"Okay. . . *now* what?"


Today is not tomorrow.

(Where is BR, anyway? Does she only come out when we need thumping?)