Yes! But recognize that it will take time, and remember the day that says "Acceptance and Surrender--things that hurt the most right before you do them" or words to that effect.

I mentioned the things that I want to say so that you can see the emotions involved. I will let go of this and other things (wanting to tell the OM that my children know who and what he is and that some day his children will, too). I want to know that she knows what she did was wrong. Back when I was more intent on recovery, I used to tell my IC that I only wanted the SCQ to hurt when I thought that she didn't.

Yeah, you are right. I'm still not all there yet with this letting go thing, obviously. The last few posts prove it.

It will take time. (I'm going to go back and read some of those days again, sd)

It was also one heck of a week last week. Pretty momentous. In light of that, I probably did okay. (Did I mention my bachelorette party on Friday with the poker girls? We had fun.)

Honestly, deep down: I think I am just dying to hear some bad news out of the wayward camp. Thus the asking, the probing. For just a crumb of karma.

That's stupid. Karma's already go them, because they have to live with themselves in the mess they created. But still.

I recognize that I am still gaugeing my own "okayness" relative to the "okayness" of the waywards. When they are down, then I can truly be up. This is not healthy for me....I'm recognizing it, and I'm going to try very hard to let THAT go. Because I'm okay just the way I am
!!

However....I'm dealing with an issue that I have not had to deal with up til now:

I am deeply fearful of the kids having a relationship with that creature. I do think she is twisted somehow...predatory...and having the boys around her is just creepy.

I remember her laughing once about how one of her son's friends walked in on her in her underwear. Something that would have horrified me--that I would feel so embarrassed about--struck her as funny. Then there's the fact that WXH's friends described her as "loose" and vixenish, and seductive.

And then there's what she did to me...not just that night, but the two-page single spaced letter two months after the fact about how I had traumatized her.

This is not a woman that I care to have as a significant person in my sons' lives.

Again...nothing that I can control...BUT I fear it nonetheless. Primarily because I have no idea how to compensate for it, or how to counteract it, as the boys grow and mature.

I totally get you on this one. I completely understand. When the fires were around Lake Arrowhead, I thought of the cabin that POSOM's family seems to have there and hoped for the worst.


That's right. But what if they're enjoying the happiness of the ignorant? What if they *like* what they're doing? They're wrong, and they should know it! At least, those are thoughts that creep into my head sometimes.


Yep. With good reason, but as you say a bit further on, it's nothing that you can control. And it's almost certainly going to happen. How can it not?

It's not fair. You just get through the trauma of finalizing the divorce and the first thing that happens is that you get hit with this nightmare that might actually be worse than the divorce. Thoughts of the POSOM being around my kids make me incredibly angry. You need to take care of yourself--this could be major trauma stuff for you right now, Sis.


I wish I had the answer. I think it comes from knowing that you have fought the good fight. That you have done what is good and right all along, and your children know that. By continuing to be the good and responsible parent, you have set the table to be their moral and developmental guide through their lives.

I have no fear for your sons, Sis, because of what I know about you.

Yup! Agree! Good thing those boys have a say in WHO they have relationships with and under what terms. You've raised good boys, Sis. Try to remember how much pressure they will be under to conform to the NEW life with dad. Support them and try to keep them talking, just so that they have an outlet, a safe place.

Hi LilSis,

I've never posted to you before but have followed your story the whole way.

Just wanted to say that I can't WAIT for the day when you tell us the affair is over. BELIEVE that - because the day WILL come. Like Believer, my XWH and OW broke up within a month of our divorce. Now your X has what he 'thinks' he wants - reality will start to slowly set in. Remember, they are not a happy couple. At the end of the day what do they possibly have to talk about? What do they have to laugh and smile about? What wonderful stories and hopes and dreams do they have to share? They are just two miserable people who hurt others and who will deserve everything coming to them.

Your job now is to go out and rebuilt a wonderful life for you and your boys. Pray that God will give you emotional freedom from both of them - to the point where it wouldn't matter what they said or did - it would have no affect on you. (That was my prayer for you while cleaning up my kitchen today!). It will take time, but He can do that for you. I know - I'm a work in progress.

He is a fool to have lost such a precious family. A total fool. And you will start to feel better now you're divorced. There's something about it that helps you accept the end - and start a new beginning.

Best of luck to you LiLSis. I'm still following you and can't wait to see where God takes you.

What's up, Sis?

Not much up, thus the not posting thing.

Work has been busy, the boys had Monday off from school so we hung out, I weeded and feeded the lawn, did some raking, prepping the costumes, making sure homework is done, gathering the recycling, etc.

The excitement of the life of a single mom.

The boys are with XWH tonight...I got them all prepped this morning and they are both delighted with their costumes. We always make a trip to Goodwill to find our inspiration and go all creative from there. Nothing store-bought except for the accessories like hair paint or a hat.

I'm not big on traipsing around the neighborhood in the cold mist, anyway.

I have to tell you, sd, that I'm looking to you for inspiration on how to handle the inevitable RT/DS encounters with grace and dignity. You have been a paragon of restraint. I can only aspire to that, because it does not come naturally.

I may have to deal with it yet tonight, if it turns out that the whole Brady clan went trick-or-treating together.

HOWEVER....I am becoming much more accustom to living in the moment. I'm not dwelling so much on the what ifs and anticipating the worst possible outcomes. God has blessed me tremendously, and has shown me that I can survive a lot. The boys can survive a lot, too. I'll be there for them, be honest with them, try to be real with them, and TRY to give them the freedom to find their own peace.

I am finding my peace, and I wish this for them.

BTW...evidently I'm not divorced yet. The draft something-or-other came in the mail yesterday; my attorney told me to review it and get back with him (it had been drafted by WH's attorney). My attorney's said it checked out to him. I just wanted some clarity on the right of first refusal thing. So I guess once those little details are pinned down, it goes to the judge and THEN it's final.

I think we have to find a different analogy than the "Brady's".

If I remember correctly, I believe Carol was a widow...and whats-his-name was a widower. No ex-wives/husbands, divorces, pet custody, or house equity issues there.

I'll have to think about a suitable replacement analogy for you. Anyone else have ideas?

OMG. I hadn't even thought of that.

How about the Manson Clan (sans the kids, mind you)

Sis, you sound like you are doing well, finding a way. You inspire me, truly!

The Osbornes, Ozzy & Sharon, Dysfunction at the highest

GF

Hi Sis, I am way behind on the news, but did find out second-hand about the fate of the family dog. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Glad to hear you are holding strong though.

I'm hanging in there, too, trying to replace Jerry Springer Jr. (x2) with new programming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Some days it even works.

Just wanted you to know I'm still thinking of you and praying for you and your family.

Bad dream.

I always get up about a half hour before I need to just to have a quiet conversation with God, have a cup of coffee, check email, and check in here. It's about the only time of day that is truly my own. It is precious.

But this morning I woke up troubled after a bad dream. WH had come back, apparently, and we were driving in the car. I was looking at him, and trying to reach out....but lacking the will or the trust to do so. I started to put my hand over to place it on his knee, and recoiled. The image of RT doing the same thing was too much for me.

I felt fear, I felt distrust....I felt alone, as if this were a burden I was carrying by myself...not shared by WH, even though he was right there.

Then we went into an antique store (this is a dream, remember, it's not supposed to make sense). I saw this beautiful old clock, and it reminded me of the clock that my parents gave us as a wedding gift. It is engraved with our name and the year of our marriage.

My mom asked me recently if I wanted to take that down and get something else.

Anyway, I saw this beautiful old clock in the antique store and began to cry.

That's about when I woke up. Must be hormonal. I always have these vivid dreams when the hormones kick into overdrive.

All that said, I woke up troubled, still with that sense of fear. And not to bore you all with my dream, but it's therapeutic to unload it....here, in the quiet.

***
The boys did stop at RT's while trick-or-treating. They were happy to see the dog. I have this feeling that the waywards are SO using the dog to facilitate a relationship (how appropriate...the dog is female, after all).

I always ask about the dog and act happy that they got to see her. DS11 (almost 12!!!) was eager to tell me that he overheard RT and WH talking about RT having taken the dogs (ours, and her little accessory dog) to the groomers.

This just cracks me up. Her accessory dog probably does need grooming, because, well, it's an accessory dog. But our sweet little mutt...she's got really short hair, doesn't smell doggy, and isn't a huge shedder. A good brushing and an occasional bath is fine for her.

And I'm just one who thinks paying someone to groom a dog is sort of laughable.

Yes, I'm petty.

DS11 also told me that the dog was wearing some "stupid bandana" around her neck, and that RT had to call her "like 12 times" before she came.

I believe that DS11 is--not at all surprisingly--very resentful that RT has HIS dog.

I had a talk with DS11 last night. I told him that he's in a really tough spot: he know that I think that RT is horrible, he doesn't want to hurt me, meanwhile his dad is going to want him to like her.

I told him that he needs to do what he feels comfortable with, and not worry about hurting me. These are my issues, not his.

He scoffed, and said he finds her "disturbing." (That is a new favorite word in 7th grade I guess.) But if she wants to give him things (like candy, a toy, or time with the dog) he'll take them.

To me, he was clearly implying that if she's stupid enough to think that she can buy him, then he's fine with reaping the rewards, but he sees right through it and doesn't buy it for a second.

Which seems rather cold and hard-hearted for a kid.

So here we go...he's already learning lessons from his dad about how to use people to get what you want. How to be insincere.

Time for another talk. Sigh.

and you will probably be having lots of those talks with your kids lil sis.

my exes ow is out of state for 2 weeks for training. during that 2 weeks ex and i have actually been able to talk on the phone about our kids (something he does not do when ow is around, i am sure she pitches a fit when he talks to me.) my kids even noticed how relaxed dad and i were these last few weeks and that we were able to talk. and i told them exactly why: i said it is because ow is not here. i told them she is the cause of so much friction between dad and i. i told them now you can see how well we can get along if it was not for her interference. i tell my kids the truth.

i told them it is fine for them to like her but to be careful of her. she is not trustworthy. i think it is hard for them because she is nice to them, but they also know the other side of the coin. how awful it must be for them. they know she and i do not like each other, they know she tried to ruin my business i had going over the summer, etc, all of those things.

i am rambling... but just know it will be up to you to teach them right and wrong because they aren't going to learn it from watching wh and ow.

mlhb

I dunno if it's insincerity. By the time my mom left my step dad, when I was 14, I was soooo jaded. Consider that your son's world, as he knew it, has been fractured, shatterred to some extent, and he has never been put in this position, and has NO idea how to handle himself, and maybe he believes HE has no choice, that his parents have thrust him into this. DS11 is feeling around in the dark; this is a whole new territory, and has changed him forever.

I'm not blaming you in that last sentence, Sis. I'm describing what it may feel like to him. It sure as he!! felt as if I had no say in things. My mom married whoever, left whenever, moved whenever, and took us kids along for the ride (how I thought back when I was 14). Today, I understand that she was faced with some very difficult choices, and I was faced with my own, and made some bad, some good.

With guidance from you on how to conduct yourself, and opened lines of communication, especially as he enters the teenage realm (YUCK!), you can help him to find his voice.

I guess you can consider this your next phase; focus on the kids and healing.

LilSis, you might be dead right in your interpretation, but don't leap too quickly to assumptions about this.

He's 11 and he's been presented with a situation where he must pick his way through a social tangle that he doesn't have tools to deal with, and where he must submit to adult control even when he has little reason to respect some of those adults or their decisions.

In saying that he'll take what RT hands out, he's not necessarily saying that he's using her. He's having to find a way to deal with this that maintains his own self-respect, protects you, and avoids adult anger. That's hard enough for an adult, never mind a child of eleven.

If he refused her offerings, he knows he would run into trouble with her and his father, and the fear must exist that his dad would reject him because of that. He has every reason to hate this woman, who broke up his family, but he can't express that in their company for fear of losing his dad's love...so taking what she offers without feeling an obligation is a way for him to express internally his own rage.

On the other hand, accepting her offerings is an insult to you, which he also knows. He wants to be loyal to you, so how else can he do it other than to demonstrate to you that he 'sees through her', and won't be bought?

He has very, very little power in this situation, don't forget, and an awful lot to lose.

LilSis, I applaud the talk you had with DS11, telling him that your discomfort is YOUR problem, and that he should do what he feels comfortable with. But, if the first time he tells you how he's handling the situation, you respond with "Wrong!", then do you think that he will really feel safe to tell you more stuff in the future?

You may be right about what's going on, but I'm not sure you've considered other possibilities. Leaping towards the assumption 'he's just like his father!' is a dangerous path to embark on. Try and think yourself into DS's position, remember how powerless and dependent you are at 11, and work out what he may be seeing and feeling.

TA

No, actually, I absolutely DON'T believe he's just like his father...Not at all!! I am just very sensitive to any indication that he may behave in a way that is....damaging to his own integrity?? Don't know the right words, here.

I didn't say WRONG to him...just the opposite, in fact...

This morning, I brought it up, as we were sitting having our cereal (this is the time of day when the two of us connect, because DS9 sleeps later). I told him that I didn't want him to think it's OKAY to take advantage of people...although this situation presents some really difficult challenges for him.

I reminded him that anything I say about RT is coming from a place of hurt and bitterness, but that EVERY DAY I pray that God takes that away, because I surely do not like to feel that way. I told him I think God is working it out in me, but it takes time.

I told him that I just wanted him to be aware that he may need to filter what I say through that lens...sometimes it might be my hurt and anger talking...he doesn't have to be afraid, because it is not HE that hurt me, and not HE that I am angry with.

Nonetheless, I'm so sorry for that. (Fortunately, I don't have that same issue when talking about WH...it's the RT issue that is on the table now.)

Unfortunately, he is on his own here...as you've all pointed out, he has to walk this tightrope, and I can only help so much. He has to negotiate his own way.

I just want him to be true to HIMSELF, and make sure that he examines his motivations...not just react out of expedience or selfishness.

Proceed with caution. Search your feelings, young padawan. Don't ignore them, and share them with me as much as you can. I'll listen, and I'll try to help as best I can.

I THINK he's getting it.

I think you're doing a great job, Sis. You said all the right things in that post. I'm very impressed.

I am a mother of two and I have been reading Dr Harley's books, visiting his site and reading the boards for a long time, but just recently registered for advice on a family situation.

I have read your thread at least every other day since the day you first posted.

I have no advice.

I posted to tell you that I think your journal, which is how I think of this thread, truly shows your battle and the Commitment to your husband and your boys.

I just hope you print this so one day when your boys have grown into men - so they can read about your fight for their family.

You are a woman that any true man would be proud to have as a partner and wife. And you are a woman that any child would be lucky to have as their mom.

You are going to be fine, and so are your boys.

I'm still here with you, too, Sis. I completely understand your struggle with your sons.

DD14 told me that WH has been getting upset with them because both DDs are basically ignoring Bab's when they go visit their dad. They speak to her (barely) if she speaks to them. Which she doesn't do often anymore.

As a parent I feel I should tell them that they need to at least be civil to any other human being they come into contact with. "Respect your elders" kind of thing. But I'm having a hard time applying that one in this situation.

I feel if I tell them they should be good to her, I'm also telling them that their feelings are not important.

These kids walk such a fine line between all the adults, trying to keep the peace, not causing mom or dad to have hurt feelings, afraid of what may happen if they express their true feelings, the thoughts and feelings having to adjust from what they thought "family" was.

The children have it the worst.....they really have no say in what happens to them.

You are doing well, Sis, keep it up. You have come so far.

Fox