Bugs:

You KNOW with this quote you will get BC back here:



Have fun either way!

LG

What movies did you buy, Sis?

We are a boring lot, aren't we?

(Well, except for Bugs.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

I bought the Nativity Story (in preparation for Christmas vacation, and we've never seen it), Casino Royale (because I like James Bond, haven't seen it, and I figured it'd be a fun one to watch over the holidays), and befitting my mood, two VERY lighthearted romantic comedies: Elizabethtown (I like Cameron Crowe's other stuff), and Catch and Release (Jennifer Garner, and I liked the first few seasons of Alias).

I wouldn't recommend either of the last two. All the parts that were supposed to be funny...well...I KNEW they were SUPPOSED to be funny. Enough said.

The pickins are slim in the 4/$20 aisle. The two best I've found recently were Shopgirl and Stranger than Fiction.

Which is the new Coen Bros. movie that's coming out? Who saw Darjeeling Limited? A friend from work mentioned going to see it, but I didn't have time on Saturday. I am going to take the boys to see the new Disney movie the day before Thanksgiving.

RT and her kids came over to WH's house on Saturday for dinner while the boys were there.

I was "upbeat" about it. I asked DS11 how that was for him and he just said weird...."like, why?". I asked how it was to see the kids; he said weird, also, but okay. I guess the kids just sat around watching TV; it didn't sound like they interacted much. This is the first time to my knowledge that they have seen her kids since d-day. Remember they used to be regular playmates.

How weird is that going to be for them all?

I really feel so badly for the boys, and DS11 especially, because he does NOT talk about it at all. He never shows any emotion regarding any of this...and you figure he MUST have plenty of emotions. Right??? (DS9 is totally different...I can TELL he is very open...I can just see it in his face when he talks about it)

I told DS11 that it is very unhealthy to let emotions get stuck inside, and he should let them out. He says he can't. I don't think he knows how.

Clearly he didn't inherit my "heart on your sleeve" gene. Instead he got his dad's "stuff it" gene. Which has worked SO well for him....

Sis,

I'm really sorry you & the boys are going through this right now. {{SIS}}

Regarding DS11 - give him the time & space right now to process it all, while occassionally chiming in with the opportunities to talk. DSS was very much the same in that he didn't want to talk about it.

You handled it well!! I know it was oh so hard for you!.

BTW - I am pretty boring most of the time, but every now and then you gotta let your hair down,,,, Goddess Style!LOL!

Hope you have a GREAT week!

if he is not already sis, get ds11 into some counseling. it helped my children a lot. my son opens up way more now then he ever did. my dd on the other hand is over emotional like me.

it is going to be a strange adjustment for all of you, but especially you. honestly, kids adjust pretty easily. i hate to say that but it is true. my kids are well aware that ow is ow who was with daddy long before he left here. but, they get along with her and like her. and her family treats my kids like grandchildren spending all kinds of money on them. it is hard for me to know that, but it is the reality. the affair situation now being over 3 years old has been accepted now and life goes on over there and with her family like normal. i should be thankful that they are good to my kids but it is still a hard pill to swallow.

hugs
mlhb

So, Bugs...did that change ever for DSS?

I was going to call the counselor at the school DS11 attended last year. This counselor held a group; but this year, at the new building, the counselor isn't running any groups (which is really a shame). I'll ask the previous counselor for some names.

I'm sure it will become "normal" for the kids. They need to live their lives, and this is the hand they have been dealt, just like me. And they are kids. They need to BE kids. I think their natural inclination is to BE kids, but in this situation they are forced to deal with stuff that is developmentally inappropriate, and what the heck do they DO with it?

And I have NO experience from my own childhood that even comes close. We made a major move when I was 13 that felt like the end of the world at the time, but I never lost my family. I never felt that I was replaceable. I never felt abandoned. I never saw one parent hurt the other.

I just can't relate to what they are experiencing...from their developmental perspective.

RT's family won't be a factor, I don't think. They live in another state and her dad was/is ill (maybe dead by now). They were also VERY religious...women required to wear dresses, etc. Then again, I have not observed at all that one's "religious-ness" has any bearing whatsoever on how they respond to the whole affair relationship.

...and there is, of course, the ILs, who seem to act as if nothing unusual is going on. I don't even know how to prepare myself emotionally for the day I find out that they have welcomed RT into their home......

You will all have to give me a gold star if I refrain from lashing out then...

LS:

Your IL's have welcomed RT in to their home all the time.

If not in fact, but in spirit.

They would not allow RT into the home, and WH repected THAT.

If they had said:

WH, YOU CAN'T live her either, while you are involved with RT.

THAT would have been a boundary.

But they accepted, facilitated and encouraged everything else.

Your first thread details all the interactions and your attempts to properly enlist thier aid. And they never really picked it up.

Dinner at the IL's? Will occur after the D is final, and they return from AZ.

Because it is ALL OK now.

Going forward? Far more likely that RT will be seated at thier dinner table then LS ever will be.

Disappointing. Seriously and absolutely.

But thier choice.

Just like thier son.

Just listen to DS11. He might tell you things that hurt. But he HAS to have someone to listen to him.

Dad isn't. But LilSis CAN.

((((LilSis))))

LG

LS...for what it's worth, I think you are really getting a good hold on what's going on in your life. It is very difficult and very painful, but you are dealing with it. You are pushing through!

As for your boys, I think a lot of times, when something like this happens in a child's life the real impact, the real lesson learned isn't seen/felt until adulthood. As children, they know they hurt...they know their lives have changed and not necessarily for the better...they know they have to accept this is how it is now. It is experiencing life as adults that they can truly understand the real nitty gritty of the situation. They realize the extent of selfishness that occured. They realize the deep hurt felt not only by themselves but also by the BS...by the mother who wanted nothing but the best for them. They realize EXACTLY what did happen.

(((LS)))

HI, I WAS LURKING AND CATCHING UP...DON'T really have anything to say but wanted to let you know that I'm around!

((LS))

rubydoo, I wholeheartedly agree with this. They just do not have the capacity at this time to process the situation.

With time...it will come.

You are doing well, Sis. I'm so impressed with how far you've come.

Fox

Thanks, everyone...because I'm feeling crummy today. Deadly combo of hormones and stress. DS11's birthday, a conference in Chicago in the middle of the week, making arrangements for the dog, getting ahead at the office, needing to get the oil changed before I leave...

You are probably right about the boys. How can they even wrap their minds around it? I can barely do it and I'm a fairly intelligent adult with a fair amount of insight, and it makes no sense to me. How could a kid even begin to grasp it?

Being a single mom is like juggling balls constantly...and knowing there is no one ready to pick anything up if it falls. Today I am feeling the stress and anxiety tightening in on me.

LG, the sad truth is that you hit the nail on the head. This is one of those things that hurts, knowing that there's another betrayal to face. I can gird myself against it as best I can, and when it happens, I'll make it through...but it's rather like waiting to get a shot. Just get it over with already. It probably won't be as bad as I imagine.

As you said...they've been headed down this road for a long time, and this is the next logical step, so I've had a chance to get used to it.

It's just one of those days that I feel defeated, you know? Tired, worn out, overloaded. It's good to hear that you all think I'm doing okay, even when things feel depressing.

I could have written that, word for word (right down to capitalizing SO). This is my DS7. I can tell that there are wheels turning in there, but he doesn't want to talk about it, and I don't want to try to force it out of him. I let him know that I'm available to talk, that we're all okay, that I won't get angry with him, that none of this is his fault, etc.

I also suspect that he'll need some counseling at some point and that he probably won't recognize/want/ask for it.

I sympathize on the single momness. I'm still coming to terms with being a single dad, and it's nothing I would have chosen. Know that you're doing your best, and in the end that will be good enough (it will be much better than that, actually).

I think the movie is called No Country for Old Men. Opens everywhere Thanksgiving weekend. Great reviews so far.

Shopgirl sounded interesting, but I haven't seen it. I happened into the last third of Stranger than Fiction the other night--I was home alone and feeling melancholy and couldn't bring myself to watch the end (is it okay?).

Hope your day improved.

i think you are doing fine and going through what a lot of us who's marriages did not make it have gone through.

my inlaws, who were there for me totally and did all they could for me, as far as i know have now accepted ow. probably don't feel much choice in the matter. i don't know it for a fact, but i am guessing they have. i know they have met her. (they live in alaska and don't see my ex much. they don't come here only every few years).

the bottom line is, it sucks. it does. this kind of stuff was not supposed to happen. my marriage was supposed to last. my kids were supposed to have both parents. i never wanted to be a statistic. none of us did.

one step at a time lil sis.

mlhb

I go away for a couple of days and it appears that much drama has ensued. I tend to limit my thread reading to our little seemingly like-minded group who are in such similar situations. I suppose that is better...I surely don't need any more drama in my life.

I must be in a dip in the roller coaster.

What can I attribute it to? DS12's birthday? The stress of preparing to go to Chicago for a mid-week conference (dog to LK's, kid pick-up, work stuff)? The impending holiday season? Just plain loneliness? Three hours in the car to mull over stuff? Feeling overwhelmed by work, leaves, laundry, and gutters that need cleaning?

I dunno. I just feel sad. I've been stuck on this thought of "how could he." And "how could THEY" when I think of the ILs.

My IC says that mulling this over is part of moving on, because I need to come to some peace with that in order to ever trust again. But I'm not so sure. It feels more like I'm stuck in the past, trying to understand how someone could inflict such pain on someone else...not a stranger, not an evil person, but on someone to whom he had made a life-long commitment and with whom he brought children into the world.

To so utterly devastate someone...intentionally, deliberately, willfully...and then offer no apology....to simply DESTROY and walk away...

It is very scary to me....and when I try to wrap my head and heart around it, I feel my anxiety creeping up.

I just can't understand it. What does this reality mean? How do I create a new reality that allows for this type of cruelty to exist? How to I create context for this behavior? It is so inexplicable!

Will I ever feel safe? Can I ever be open with anyone? Do I ever offer my heart to someone, giving that person the opportunity to crush it? What if my kids decide to leave me, too, to go live with WH? Is it truly just me and God? Can anyone be capable of doing what he did? Does someone who does that have a soul?

I just feel like a trembling rabbit and the wolf will always be at the door. Will I ever have the courage to step outside....knowing that? Do I want to?

I just feel scared and alone. I crave the opportunity to just come home, have someone take me in their arms and protect me (yes, BR, I admit this)...just for a little while...just long enough that I can summon up my courage again...just to give me a respite from needing to be constantly vigilant.

It is so exhausting having to have my guard up all of the time.

What is this? Where is it coming from? Has anyone else had this experience?

I don't mean to be whiny. I'd just like to work through this.

"Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable."
C.S. Lewis

I thought the above one might help...even a smidge.


"The greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved, loved for ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of ourselves."

Victor Hugo


Your greatest days are ahead Lilsis.

Morning Sis! I wanted to let you know that I do have days like you are having...and I agree with MEDC that it does get better...

I'm the type of person who loves easily and with that comes a lot of heartache...I was also a person who trusted easily...NOW, I trust God and love people...it's hard to remember that...

people are human and make mistakes...thing is people sometimes don't realize that they have even make a mistake until it's TOO LATE...think about people on their death beds and having to apologize then and there...You and I and a great deal of people here are not going to be on our death beds regretting our past...our actions, our choices...we are the chosen ones living to be true to ourselves...to our God...striving to be in his imagine...

We are the ones limiting temptation along our path...I fear that closing off your heart adn keeping your guard up, entertaining those thoughts are playing in the devil's playground...his work...God wants us to love...

Just some of my thoughts...thinking it over from time to time when I'm in that place...

(((((SIS)))))

I understand where you are...you are lovable and I wish I had someone to hold me and protect me too...a shoulder to cry on, to offer that support...just like mom would when we were little kids, kiss it and make it better...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They are who they are. They are NOT who you want them to be.

Acceptance. You can not change, control, manipulate reality to be what YOU think it should be. The question, "How could they?!?" is a control question.

They did because they can. They have free will, and entirely different perspectives and values based on their own life experiences...not yours. Remember our conversation about expectations?

Your hurt, your anger...the result of misplaced expectations that the world is what you think it should be...


Well your MC is right - that is what you are doing. Right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, it IS where you are at.

Self acceptance is a good thing too!


This is from your perspective. I guarantee, if we asked your husband, that he would say otherwise.

It does not mean he is correct.

Trying to understand HIS actions through a filter of YOUR values is not very helpful...do you see what I mean?


Of course it is, because you are fighting with reality - and your inability to control it is a very scary thing.


My my my, aren't we powerful?


So...what....are you the first person ever treated badly?

Seriously, so much cruelty, so much WORSE cruelty and horror has existed in the world since the dawn of time. Why is yours special? Your world was fine - with Hitler and Stalin and Saddam Hussein and the genecides in Bosnia, Rwanda, Darfur....the sex slave trade...the slaughter, rape and torture of millions across time and history...

Your reality was ok with that...you could live with that context...

It's easier to detach from all that horror and cruelty because you are not affected by it. It hasn't hurt you, so you don't have an overwhelming need to control it.

Now you are faced with a personal indignity. A terrible horrible hurt, true, but a pretty common one.

Your situation, your husband, is NOT special.


As long as you keep resisting what IS, you will continue to be fearful and confused.


When you start setting boundaries instead of controlling reality, you will be safe.


This entire situation is NOT ABOUT YOU.

Your husband did not leave you because of YOU. Your husband left you because of HIM.

But if you insist on making it about you...then of course your kids may decide you are just horrible and deserve to be abandoned by them also.

Do you get what I am saying here?

There is a point where our minds tell us that we recognize we can't control others, but if we make it about us, then we can.


No. It's 'just' God. Stop trying to do His Job for him!


Yes.
We all have free will.


Yes. Having a soul does not therefore mean that a person will make choices and live according to Reality By Sis.

I can so relate, Sis. Driving home last night I was having the same thoughts. DD13 has been with WH all week and DD14 spent the evening with them - so I was alone.

I've found myself in a bit of a funk lately. I blame some of it on hormones but most of it on the change of seasons. It's almost completely dark when I get out of work and it just brings me down. Darker thoughts seem to creep in because I tend to be less busy.

Our hearts are wounded. Deeply wounded. But they will heal, in time. I think we will be amazed at how much better we will be and how much more we will appreciate a new relationship because of what we have been through.

You'll share your heart again. I'm positive of that.

And you'll want to share it, not give it away. You need that heart too, so dont' give it ALL away. I think that was part of my mistake with WH. I handed my heart and soul to him and ended up being more of a reflection of HIM than I was of ME.

I hope some of that made sense.

Thinging of you, Sis. I have complete confidence that good things are on the horizon for you.

Fox

It happened, therefore there IS an explanation.

What you mean is 'it can't be explained using my model of the way the world works'.

Therefore, your model is wrong.

That's fairly simple. The obvious deduction is that you need to rework your model so that it encompasses the behaviour of others that is not like your own.

But here's where a lot of us get stuck. To us, our way of seeing the world is unextricably linked to how we want to see ourselves.

If we are anxious to see ourselves as too innocent and good to ever mistreat someone else, then we 'can't' imagine a world where such evil deeds happen. If we could envision the emotions involved in cheating and betrayal, then we would be revealing to ourselves and the world that we are not entirely innocent, that we've known the darker side if only a little.

If our model of the world says "I must be innocent and defenceless" (because that's the image of ourself we 'need' to see), then we are always going to feel vulnerable, because we'll always rely on others to treat us with absolute respect and tenderness.

LilSis, your model of the world needs to expand, if you're to feel safe. You need to start understanding the dark places in the soul of all of us, the weaknesses, the fears...and to do all of that without judgement and bitterness.

Can I suggest an exercise? Imagine that you're your MIL's mother, and that she's been condemned to death for what she did to you. You, as her mother, must make a case to save her life. You, as her mother, love and care about her.

What case would you make?

TA

Sis, I fully understand the need to have some idea of WHY your own husband - someone you *thought* you knew - could do this to you. I don't think it's "controlling" at all.

And I still think there is more to your XWH than you are aware of. As I've said several times before, Something Is Not Right Here. I asked before what you know of his dating/relationship history before you started going out with him, but you declined to answer and skated right over it.

If you want to understand - and I see nothing wrong with that because it's how we learn and it's how we protect ourselves - then you can't be afraid to look at all of it.

JMHO.

So. Dating history?
Mulan