Mk-ev-day, mine I think just about never think about it (they haven't said anything in years) but I'm re-married now.

Notashoped-

Just b/c they haven't said anything doesn't mean they don't think about it!

That's DJing them...

I evidently am not expressing myself well here - I am NOT critisizing Lilsis in any way. I think she is doing fine. Was just giving my 2 cents about the situation in general. It isn't a new one - dealing with the ex about the kids and finding the right balance is always tough at first.

Strivn - maybe - but I took them and left and they will never live with their mom and know it so I really don't think it is something they think about much. Could be wrong though.

I don't think that you are critizing Sis...I was referring to your kids...unless they state what they are thinking YOU can not know...

Not:

I stand by my post.

As I described about the poster here on the Divorce Forum. His ExW is CRAZED that he will not engage with her except for the minimum required amount. He doesn't care about her weekend, What she is doing or her life, and she WANTS to know about his. SHE choose to leave. She CHOSE to seperate.

He CHOSE to cut her out of his life. Just because SHE changed her mind, doesn't mean he has too.

Your points are very valid. It is important the the children see that adults in thier life have normal, successful, interactions and lives. However, IF LilSis is having communications with WH and they are on the same page with what needs to happen, then the kids ARE happy. If WH wants to point out that LilSis, "Isn't ON BOARD" then that is WH's little brady bunch fantasy blowing up. NOT lilSis. She is just protecting herself from a selfish person.

TA makes and excellent point about how long the intermediary can last. But that's a choice for LilSis and L.

Not: I think that LilSis can make the CHOICE to more directly engage WH. Even if she waits for him to become ExH. Maybe you see in LilSis some unhealthly behaviors. I don't think so.

And I'm not a bitter BS. Heck, I fully see IN MYSELF, in my former incarnation, sending an Email, JUST like that, to what would be my exW. "WHY DON'T YOU BE NICE TO ME, FOR THE KIDS!!!!!"

Oh, that's right, I was thinking about them when I decided to sleep with OW......Please.

They are in NO WAY comparable. LilSis is keeping evil from her doorstep. Until she decides, for whatever reason, it isn't unhealthy for her to keep it away from her doorstep.

LG

The doorstep comment is a good one LG. That is one of the boundries IMO she will need to and should set. Ex is not to set foot in the house if it makes her uncomfortable. I have that one in place - my Ex has never been in our home and will not be. I have asked that my Ex not get out of the car - just pick up or drop the kids off. Fortunatly after a few reminders she has complied. She doesn't need to be peeking in our home or wondering around my yard.

Sis, I think you should stay dark. You're not ready to come out of Plan B.

Two things. One is that you're not Done. Just because you're divorced doesn't mean that your relationship with WH is over. This will make some people want to scream, but it's the truth. When you are Done, then you can think about relaxing the darkness of your plan B. They recommend not giving up for up to two years after divorce for a reason.

Two is that once you open the door to direct contact you don't know what you're going to get. You've read Fox's thread. And LG is right--you've read it on my thread. I have kept open for business-like interactions (the kind you're talking about), and for the most part the SCQ has respected that that, and I still get triggered by the communications. In some respects, I regret not having gone completely dark--I don't think it would have affected the affair at all, but I probably would have been more sane.

Three, (oops, three things) if you listen to Jennifer you will keep up some form of Plan B for the rest of your life. Your next relationship (if it is not with WH) will be threatened by any kind of cordial friendship that you have with WH. Jennifer has recommended that the new person be included in any communication you have with the ex.

You're doing fine, Sis. Come out of the darkness when You want to.

I tend to agree with TA's post.

LS is the only person that knows whether or not she is truly in a Plan B, which means that she is perserving what love she has left for her husband; or whether or not she is hurt by his actions to the point where she never wants to speak to him again.

If the latter is the case, then you sometimes have to suck it up when circumstances (having children) forces you to do something that you don't want to do. They SHARE children. Nothing is going to change that. To never have to speak to him again, or interact with him ever again, is not a luxury that she has available to her. This isn't High School where you get mad at your best friend and you go back to the class reunion 10 years later and you STILL aren't going to speak to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It could end up biting her in the A$$ too if something happens to one of those children while in his care and he neglects to call her because "she won't take my calls, she won't speak to me" kind of stuff.

Don't let anger be the voice of reason. Place the needs of the children first.

Plan B is in essence keeping that fire burning for the WS. Is that where she is?

committed

Sis, first the inlaws demand reconnection...

now the son.

Coincidence?

I think not.

I think you are going to get very hurt if you open the door even a crack.

Your response is a good one, but send it through LK.

You get to decide on your timeline when you are ready to to come out.

You don't owe him a damn thing.

I have not one clue as to why anyone is talking about Sis coming out of plan B and coparenting right now. Not only is the ink not dry, but there isn't even any FINAL ink yet, people!

I gotta say something, in kudos, MULAN, you ROCK!

Sis doesn't HAVE to do anything. Sis can choose to. Who gives a flying fart how Sis' interaction with WH makes him feel or causes him to say? She can answer to her children if they have questions about her cutting her WH out of her life.

As long as she holds up her end of any divorce decree, which probaly doesn't state that Sis will TALK to her WH, there is no need to end Plan B or a semblence of it. Do what is best for the kids by relaying important info, and get on with your day.

Why the push, anyway? I don't get it. The kids will be fine; they will learn that breaking a trust may earn you a one way ticket out of the life of the offended.

Committed:

In this statement:

"if something happens to one of those children while in his care and he neglects to call her because "she won't take my calls, she won't speak to me" kind of stuff."

Where in that statement would it be LilSis's fault? I can see justification for HIS actions all over it. Hiding, once again, his bad actions. And I do not believe that LilSis has been unapproachable. I believe that if WH was to CALL, she would answer, and if he said that one of the boys was in danger, hurt, missing, etc, LilSis WOULD talk. And anything else is just conjecture.

Please. This isn't anger. Anger is coming from WH.

But not from LilSis.

And good point BR.

Betcha since MIL and FIL are heading to AZ this week, WH needs more time from LS to watch kids. You, know, that tough cop schedule and all. Can't fall back on MIL. May need LS to pick up some slack. After ALL, Its for the KIDS, right?

LG

Where in that statement would it be LilSis's fault?



I only mean that HE would use that as an excuse to NOT let her know.

I don't know about anyone else, but I always wanted my children to be somewhere that I could be in communication with.

There is nothing wrong with being mad at him, being hurt, and wanting to distance yourself from him. When your most valuable things are somewhere else, you want ALL doors to that place to be open. That's how I felt.

committed

LS,

I don't keep up with your thread but the sitch with the kids interested me. For what it's worth, I received this little bit of info when I divorced and entered the world of co-parenting.

It's called "A Child's Bill of Rights in a Divorce." I'm sure there are several versions out there.

"I have the right..."

* To be told that my mother and my father still love me and will never abandon me.

* To be told that the family break-up is not my fault, and not to be told about the adult problems that caused it.

* To be considered as a human being, and not as another piece of propety to be fought for, bargained over or threatened.

* To have decisions about me based on what is in my best interests, not on past wrongs, hurt feelings or my parent's needs.

* To be allowed to love both my father and my mother without being forced to choose or feel guilty.

* To know both my father and my mother through regular and frequent involvement in my life.

* To have the financial support of both my father and my mother.

* To be spared having to listen to bad, hurtful comments about either of my parents which have no useful purpose.

* To be a child, and not to be asked to tell a lie or act as a spy or send messages between parents.

* To be allowed to have affection for the other people who may come into my life without being forced to choose or feel guilty or being pressured.

Co-parenting can be done with very little contact or communication. It can be civil and 'all business'. It can be a major pain in the a$$ dealing with the other parent but in the end, you don't have much choice.

Actually, the more information (re:kids) you can exchange and agree on, in a single conversation, the less you will have to communicate with each other in the long run.

LS, there is absolutely no reason for you to end Plan B unless you just want to. It is of NO benefit to the children and certainly does not harm them for you to stay dark. In fact, I could easily make the opposite argument, that is causes you so much grief to be in contact that it effects your mental health. And it SHOULD cause you great grief if you are a normal, rational, mentally healthy person.

Nor does it have anything to do with RESPECT. It just has much to do with COMMON SENSE. It makes no sense to maintain contact with someone who causes you so much pain and effects your mental health. A person with strong mental health recognizes her limits and doesn't expose herself to unnecessary trauma.

So, you want to stay dark, then stay dark FOREVER. It won't hurt a damn thing. Dr. Harley: "Your intermediary can do anything that you could do with direct contact."

So, don't let anyone guilt you into breaking your Plan B.

Do not end plan B. You are not fully healed yet, and he certainly hasn't agreed to your PBL conditions. You don't ever "have to" communicate directly with that man ever again. I wouldn't do so at the very least until a couple years from now and you could care less about him. I know the point of plan B is to save the marriage, but don't kid yourself, if he told you it was over with ratturd, wanted to agree to your PBL conditions and then some, and would beg you to let you all be a family again, you wouldn't even ponder it? Until you can say not to that without even a shred of doubt and would laugh at him if he brought it up, don't end plan B. You see, he thinks he can smooth this whole situation out and you two can communicate and be friends again. Don't fall for his ploy. You deserve better than to have to put up with him. Plan B is as much for you as it is for him. If you still have to ask the question, don't end plan B.

Amen! (What Mel said!)

Okay, my head's spinning. I had a huge project dumped in my lap at work today, and tonight was DS12's concert...so I'm just catching up.

I really can't process all of this at the moment.

My first reaction is to not do anything. Nothing that he said requires a response. He did say in the email that he would give the mail to the boys when he drops them off on Sunday night.

As for the rest of it...I don't have the time or energy.

So I will ramble:

I feel like WH is a pesky mosquito that I want to just shoo away. Just quit bugging me. Leave me alone.

Kinda like what SL said. I don't really care what he does or thinks....I just want my own safety and peace of mind.

I agree with TA that the whole intermediary thing is reaching its limit. LK can't stand WH. My sister hates getting put in the position. Especially in a case like this, in which she thinks I should clearly and unemotionally state what *I* need (my mail forwarded)...and get on with my day. Basically, screw him; he's not my problem. I don't have to run and hide from him.

Right now, though...I gotta go to bed. Another meeting at 7:30 a.m. and I haven't gone through the materials yet...

I think I'm just going to put this whole thing away for now. No response...from anyone...is really necessary.

Aren't you all glad that I put everyone in a tizzy over nothing?

But it's good to consider, anyway...

(BTW: I sat with my mom and DS9 at the concert, and headed out and waited in the car almost as soon as it was over. WH was somewhere further in the back; mom waited for DS12 with DS9 after it was over...I expected that the boys would want to greet their dad. As we were driving out of the parking lot, DS12 says, "Oh! Nana and papa!" And he rolls down the window. I smile and say hello to MIL, didn't look at FIL, and then looked out my window until DS was done and we could pull away.)

Just to be clear:

Is Plan B all or nothing? or am I hearing that the "something slightly less than a full Plan B" is really ineffective?

LS-
This is what I think:
It does not have to be a full blown plan B. It can just be what you want it to be... meaning, you only discuss (even just through e-mail) what YOU want to discuss.

You would be in control, but the communication restrictions would be lifted a little.

Which may be easier for everyone. BUT, only if YOU are emotionally ready for it.

And I think that the post Ba made (the parents divorce decree) is wonderful. That could help you too.